Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Helping Nixie Tubes Fire in a Darkened Room

[Adrian Godwin]

Here's another approach, not really a viable retrofit to a nixie unless an
extra electrode fixed to the glass might work ?

https://youtu.be/y2_dTEXptZQ?t=227


On Tue, Dec 5, 2023 at 9:12 PM Jeff Walton  wrote:

>
> Here is a closeup of the tube with a UV light source assisting...   395nM
> LEDs.  Waiting for samples to test 365nM.
>
> Jeff
> On Wednesday, November 29, 2023 at 8:43:48 PM UTC-6 Jeff Walton wrote:
>
>> I've recently come across a situation where I have some tubes in a clock
>> that are being directly driven and are having trouble starting when the
>> room is darkened but light right up when a room light is turned on.  These
>> particular tubes were probably intended for use in a calculator.  They are
>> seven segment neon MG-17G tubes.  Once the tubes have any of the segments
>> lit, there is really no issue with the performance.  It's when the tubes go
>> completely dark if a space is used while scrolling a message or lighting a
>> dash on and off to emulate a colon.  I'm wondering if others have found any
>> particular tricks to help convince tubes to light up.  There is no
>> "baselighting" and the HV is ~172v.  I'm considering increasing the HV by
>> 10-15v but don't want to over drive the tubes.  Short of putting a
>> radioactive source in the vicinity, are there other things that anyone has
>> had any luck with?
>>
>> Jeff
>>
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RE: [neonixie-l] Re: Helping Nixie Tubes Fire in a Darkened Room

[Tidak Ada]

The problem is that a 365nm  LED has a much wider spectrum, definitely 
producing ozone. I have a floodlight with a 365nm COB-LED that I can smell. OK 
It’s a 10W chip, but despite that.

Further, it’s fine to reduce the LED’s burning time to avoid their light and 
color. That’s the main reason to start  with only pulsing during transition of 
the figures. I think the UV pulse may be short enough that it will be not 
visible

 

The UV trick works also fine with dekatrons and other trigger tubes.

 

Cheers,

   eric

 

Van: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com [mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com] Namens 
Christian Riise Wagner
Verzonden: maandag 4 december 2023 8:55
Aan: neonixie-l
Onderwerp: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Helping Nixie Tubes Fire in a Darkened Room

 

You won't generate ozone with 365nm. You'd need shorter wavelength UVC for that.

søndag den 3. december 2023 kl. 09.25.35 UTC+1 skrev Tidak Ada:

Hi Jeff, good to hear you are content with my suggestion.

 

Two remarks: I  bought at a time small 365nm transmission filter from a seller 
at either AliExpress or Banggood. That reduces the amount of visible light 
considerabele. Second, make that the UV flash only during a short period around 
the firing of the of the nixie segments. That will reduce the production of 
ozone considerable.

 

Cheers,

   eric

 

Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPhone





Op 3 dec. 2023 om 08:09 heeft Jeff Walton  het volgende 
geschreven:



I've done some testing with common 3mm UV LEDs that are in the 395nM range.  
Running them at ~5mA provides a dim purple color light that when placed under 
or in front of the tube actually makes the reliability of the ignition very 
stable.  Even in a fully darkened room, the segments and decimal points light 
reliably.  

 

This particular tube (MG-17G) has segments with no anode screen in front of the 
tube, so they seem to behave a little differently than a regular nixie.  I also 
found that if I placed fingers on the sides of the tubes while operating, the 
segments lit more reliably.  I think that I will go for an LED under each tube 
but powered just enough to make the tubes work better and not to try to supply 
any visible base lighting.  I will try 365nM LED's when they arrive and may use 
them if there is less noticeable, visible light.

 

Thanks for the suggestions!

 

Jeff

 

On Wednesday, November 29, 2023 at 8:43:48 PM UTC-6 Jeff Walton wrote:

I've recently come across a situation where I have some tubes in a clock that 
are being directly driven and are having trouble starting when the room is 
darkened but light right up when a room light is turned on.  These particular 
tubes were probably intended for use in a calculator.  They are seven segment 
neon MG-17G tubes.  Once the tubes have any of the segments lit, there is 
really no issue with the performance.  It's when the tubes go completely dark 
if a space is used while scrolling a message or lighting a dash on and off to 
emulate a colon.  I'm wondering if others have found any particular tricks to 
help convince tubes to light up.  There is no "baselighting" and the HV is 
~172v.  I'm considering increasing the HV by 10-15v but don't want to over 
drive the tubes.  Short of putting a radioactive source in the vicinity, are 
there other things that anyone has had any luck with?

 

Jeff

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Helping Nixie Tubes Fire in a Darkened Room

[Christian Riise Wagner]

You won't generate ozone with 365nm. You'd need shorter wavelength UVC for 
that.

søndag den 3. december 2023 kl. 09.25.35 UTC+1 skrev Tidak Ada:

> Hi Jeff, good to hear you are content with my suggestion.
>
> Two remarks: I  bought at a time small 365nm transmission filter from a 
> seller at either AliExpress or Banggood. That reduces the amount of visible 
> light considerabele. Second, make that the UV flash only during a short 
> period around the firing of the of the nixie segments. That will reduce the 
> production of ozone considerable.
>
> Cheers,
>eric
>
> Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPhone
>
> Op 3 dec. 2023 om 08:09 heeft Jeff Walton  het 
> volgende geschreven:
>
> 
>
> I've done some testing with common 3mm UV LEDs that are in the 395nM 
> range.  Running them at ~5mA provides a dim purple color light that when 
> placed under or in front of the tube actually makes the reliability of the 
> ignition very stable.  Even in a fully darkened room, the segments and 
> decimal points light reliably.  
>
> This particular tube (MG-17G) has segments with no anode screen in front 
> of the tube, so they seem to behave a little differently than a regular 
> nixie.  I also found that if I placed fingers on the sides of the tubes 
> while operating, the segments lit more reliably.  I think that I will go 
> for an LED under each tube but powered just enough to make the tubes work 
> better and not to try to supply any visible base lighting.  I will try 
> 365nM LED's when they arrive and may use them if there is less noticeable, 
> visible light.
>
> Thanks for the suggestions!
>
> Jeff
>
> On Wednesday, November 29, 2023 at 8:43:48 PM UTC-6 Jeff Walton wrote:
>
>> I've recently come across a situation where I have some tubes in a clock 
>> that are being directly driven and are having trouble starting when the 
>> room is darkened but light right up when a room light is turned on.  These 
>> particular tubes were probably intended for use in a calculator.  They are 
>> seven segment neon MG-17G tubes.  Once the tubes have any of the segments 
>> lit, there is really no issue with the performance.  It's when the tubes go 
>> completely dark if a space is used while scrolling a message or lighting a 
>> dash on and off to emulate a colon.  I'm wondering if others have found any 
>> particular tricks to help convince tubes to light up.  There is no 
>> "baselighting" and the HV is ~172v.  I'm considering increasing the HV by 
>> 10-15v but don't want to over drive the tubes.  Short of putting a 
>> radioactive source in the vicinity, are there other things that anyone has 
>> had any luck with?
>>
>> Jeff
>>
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>  
> 
> .
>
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Helping Nixie Tubes Fire in a Darkened Room

[Tidak Ada]

Hi Jeff, good to hear you are content with my suggestion.

Two remarks: I  bought at a time small 365nm transmission filter from a seller 
at either AliExpress or Banggood. That reduces the amount of visible light 
considerabele. Second, make that the UV flash only during a short period around 
the firing of the of the nixie segments. That will reduce the production of 
ozone considerable.

Cheers,
   eric

Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPhone

> Op 3 dec. 2023 om 08:09 heeft Jeff Walton  het volgende 
> geschreven:
> 
> 
> I've done some testing with common 3mm UV LEDs that are in the 395nM range.  
> Running them at ~5mA provides a dim purple color light that when placed under 
> or in front of the tube actually makes the reliability of the ignition very 
> stable.  Even in a fully darkened room, the segments and decimal points light 
> reliably.  
> 
> This particular tube (MG-17G) has segments with no anode screen in front of 
> the tube, so they seem to behave a little differently than a regular nixie.  
> I also found that if I placed fingers on the sides of the tubes while 
> operating, the segments lit more reliably.  I think that I will go for an LED 
> under each tube but powered just enough to make the tubes work better and not 
> to try to supply any visible base lighting.  I will try 365nM LED's when they 
> arrive and may use them if there is less noticeable, visible light.
> 
> Thanks for the suggestions!
> 
> Jeff
> 
>> On Wednesday, November 29, 2023 at 8:43:48 PM UTC-6 Jeff Walton wrote:
>> I've recently come across a situation where I have some tubes in a clock 
>> that are being directly driven and are having trouble starting when the room 
>> is darkened but light right up when a room light is turned on.  These 
>> particular tubes were probably intended for use in a calculator.  They are 
>> seven segment neon MG-17G tubes.  Once the tubes have any of the segments 
>> lit, there is really no issue with the performance.  It's when the tubes go 
>> completely dark if a space is used while scrolling a message or lighting a 
>> dash on and off to emulate a colon.  I'm wondering if others have found any 
>> particular tricks to help convince tubes to light up.  There is no 
>> "baselighting" and the HV is ~172v.  I'm considering increasing the HV by 
>> 10-15v but don't want to over drive the tubes.  Short of putting a 
>> radioactive source in the vicinity, are there other things that anyone has 
>> had any luck with?
>> 
>> Jeff
> 
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[neonixie-l] Re: Helping Nixie Tubes Fire in a Darkened Room

[Jeff Walton]

I've done some testing with common 3mm UV LEDs that are in the 395nM 
range.  Running them at ~5mA provides a dim purple color light that when 
placed under or in front of the tube actually makes the reliability of the 
ignition very stable.  Even in a fully darkened room, the segments and 
decimal points light reliably.  

This particular tube (MG-17G) has segments with no anode screen in front of 
the tube, so they seem to behave a little differently than a regular 
nixie.  I also found that if I placed fingers on the sides of the tubes 
while operating, the segments lit more reliably.  I think that I will go 
for an LED under each tube but powered just enough to make the tubes work 
better and not to try to supply any visible base lighting.  I will try 
365nM LED's when they arrive and may use them if there is less noticeable, 
visible light.

Thanks for the suggestions!

Jeff

On Wednesday, November 29, 2023 at 8:43:48 PM UTC-6 Jeff Walton wrote:

> I've recently come across a situation where I have some tubes in a clock 
> that are being directly driven and are having trouble starting when the 
> room is darkened but light right up when a room light is turned on.  These 
> particular tubes were probably intended for use in a calculator.  They are 
> seven segment neon MG-17G tubes.  Once the tubes have any of the segments 
> lit, there is really no issue with the performance.  It's when the tubes go 
> completely dark if a space is used while scrolling a message or lighting a 
> dash on and off to emulate a colon.  I'm wondering if others have found any 
> particular tricks to help convince tubes to light up.  There is no 
> "baselighting" and the HV is ~172v.  I'm considering increasing the HV by 
> 10-15v but don't want to over drive the tubes.  Short of putting a 
> radioactive source in the vicinity, are there other things that anyone has 
> had any luck with?
>
> Jeff
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Helping Nixie Tubes Fire in a Darkened Room

[Paul Andrews]

You could have a high value resistor permanently connected between the 
cathodes and ground so there is always a minimum current flowing through 
them?

On Friday, December 1, 2023 at 8:30:47 AM UTC-5 Robert G. Schaffrath wrote:

> It would an interesting idea but the glass would block the ionizing 
> radiation (alpha and probably most beta particles from daughter elements in 
> the ore).
>
> I have the same issue with B-7971's in a dark room. Unless I shine a 
> flashlight at them, it takes them a bit of time to turn on from a cold 
> start.
>
>
> On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 4:43:52 PM UTC-5 Nicholas Stock wrote:
>
> May I suggest a small piece of uranium ore placed next to the clock?
>
> LOL.
>
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Helping Nixie Tubes Fire in a Darkened Room

[Robert G. Schaffrath]

It would an interesting idea but the glass would block the ionizing 
radiation (alpha and probably most beta particles from daughter elements in 
the ore).

I have the same issue with B-7971's in a dark room. Unless I shine a 
flashlight at them, it takes them a bit of time to turn on from a cold 
start.

On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 4:43:52 PM UTC-5 Nicholas Stock wrote:

May I suggest a small piece of uranium ore placed next to the clock?

LOL.

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Helping Nixie Tubes Fire in a Darkened Room

[Nicholas Stock]

Some tubes were doped with Kr85. They have little radiation signs on
them 122P224, Paul has a nice write up here (
https://www.nixies.us/bwg_gallery/122p224/). Half life is 10 years, so a
lot of decay since manufacture

On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 2:42 PM liam bartosiewicz <
liambartosiew...@gmail.com> wrote:

> If I remember correctly, there were some tubes manufactured that had a
> small external radioactive source to make them more reliable. It wouldn’t
> be very practical, or safe for that matter, but a radioactive nixie clock
> does sound pretty cool.
>
> On Nov 30, 2023, at 1:43 PM, Nicholas Stock  wrote:
>
> 
> May I suggest a small piece of uranium ore placed next to the clock?
>
> LOL.
>
> Just kidding Jeff! I like Jon's idea, up the voltage/series resistor.
>
> On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 1:38 PM Jeff Walton  wrote:
>
>> Not dimmed.  Tried to do a momentary hit on all segments to "wake" up the
>> tube and it helped some but the extra flash is distracting.
>>
>> On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 9:04:36 AM UTC-6 Paul Andrews wrote:
>>
>>> Are they also dimmed using an LDR? If so, turn dimming off - if you have
>>> access to the source code, you could turn dimming off briefly when the
>>> clock turns on.
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, November 29, 2023 at 9:43:48 PM UTC-5 Jeff Walton wrote:
>>>
 I've recently come across a situation where I have some tubes in a
 clock that are being directly driven and are having trouble starting when
 the room is darkened but light right up when a room light is turned on.
 These particular tubes were probably intended for use in a calculator.
 They are seven segment neon MG-17G tubes.  Once the tubes have any of the
 segments lit, there is really no issue with the performance.  It's when the
 tubes go completely dark if a space is used while scrolling a message or
 lighting a dash on and off to emulate a colon.  I'm wondering if others
 have found any particular tricks to help convince tubes to light up.  There
 is no "baselighting" and the HV is ~172v.  I'm considering increasing the
 HV by 10-15v but don't want to over drive the tubes.  Short of putting a
 radioactive source in the vicinity, are there other things that anyone has
 had any luck with?

 Jeff

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>>
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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Helping Nixie Tubes Fire in a Darkened Room

[liam bartosiewicz]

If I remember correctly, there were some tubes manufactured that had a small external radioactive source to make them more reliable. It wouldn’t be very practical, or safe for that matter, but a radioactive nixie clock does sound pretty cool.On Nov 30, 2023, at 1:43 PM, Nicholas Stock  wrote:May I suggest a small piece of uranium ore placed next to the clock?LOL.Just kidding Jeff! I like Jon's idea, up the voltage/series resistor.On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 1:38 PM Jeff Walton  wrote:Not dimmed.  Tried to do a momentary hit on all segments to "wake" up the tube and it helped some but the extra flash is distracting.On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 9:04:36 AM UTC-6 Paul Andrews wrote:Are they also dimmed using an LDR? If so, turn dimming off - if you have access to the source code, you could turn dimming off briefly when the clock turns on.On Wednesday, November 29, 2023 at 9:43:48 PM UTC-5 Jeff Walton wrote:I've recently come across a situation where I have some tubes in a clock that are being directly driven and are having trouble starting when the room is darkened but light right up when a room light is turned on.  These particular tubes were probably intended for use in a calculator.  They are seven segment neon MG-17G tubes.  Once the tubes have any of the segments lit, there is really no issue with the performance.  It's when the tubes go completely dark if a space is used while scrolling a message or lighting a dash on and off to emulate a colon.  I'm wondering if others have found any particular tricks to help convince tubes to light up.  There is no "baselighting" and the HV is ~172v.  I'm considering increasing the HV by 10-15v but don't want to over drive the tubes.  Short of putting a radioactive source in the vicinity, are there other things that anyone has had any luck with?Jeff



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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Helping Nixie Tubes Fire in a Darkened Room

[gregebert]

I've never had problems with tubes failing to ignite, perhaps because I use 
higher-than-minimum supply voltages, typically around +200VDC. My first 
clock uses 340V.

On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 1:46:25 PM UTC-8 Jeff Walton wrote:

> Give me the glow, Nick!
>
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Helping Nixie Tubes Fire in a Darkened Room

[Jeff Walton]

Give me the glow, Nick!

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[neonixie-l] Re: Helping Nixie Tubes Fire in a Darkened Room

[Jeff Walton]

I can try to modify the Omnixie HV module if higher voltage shows promise.  
The module will be a little bit of a challenge as it has really small parts 
and I have a rework gun that might be on the large side and melt everything 
around the target resistor.

On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 2:25:17 AM UTC-6 Jon wrote:

> I think the best approach would be to increase the HV. If you look at the 
> discussions of glow physics in Weston or Acton for example, the lag in 
> striking a glow from dark (which is what we're talking about here) is 
> reduced by using an anode voltage materially above the threshold striking 
> voltage. Overdrive is a matter of tube current rather than anode voltage 
> per se, so a simple compensatory tweak to the current-limiting resistor 
> value will get you back to the same tube current as now. The cost of the 
> change will be a little extra power dissipated in the current-limiting 
> resistors, but that should be immaterial in most circumstances.
>
> Jon.
>
> On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 3:27:11 AM UTC gregebert wrote:
>
>> UV light source, such as from an LED ? 
>>
>> On Wednesday, November 29, 2023 at 6:43:48 PM UTC-8 Jeff Walton wrote:
>>
>>> I've recently come across a situation where I have some tubes in a clock 
>>> that are being directly driven and are having trouble starting when the 
>>> room is darkened but light right up when a room light is turned on.  These 
>>> particular tubes were probably intended for use in a calculator.  They are 
>>> seven segment neon MG-17G tubes.  Once the tubes have any of the segments 
>>> lit, there is really no issue with the performance.  It's when the tubes go 
>>> completely dark if a space is used while scrolling a message or lighting a 
>>> dash on and off to emulate a colon.  I'm wondering if others have found any 
>>> particular tricks to help convince tubes to light up.  There is no 
>>> "baselighting" and the HV is ~172v.  I'm considering increasing the HV by 
>>> 10-15v but don't want to over drive the tubes.  Short of putting a 
>>> radioactive source in the vicinity, are there other things that anyone has 
>>> had any luck with?
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>>
>>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Helping Nixie Tubes Fire in a Darkened Room

[Nicholas Stock]

May I suggest a small piece of uranium ore placed next to the clock?

LOL.

Just kidding Jeff! I like Jon's idea, up the voltage/series resistor.

On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 1:38 PM Jeff Walton  wrote:

> Not dimmed.  Tried to do a momentary hit on all segments to "wake" up the
> tube and it helped some but the extra flash is distracting.
>
> On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 9:04:36 AM UTC-6 Paul Andrews wrote:
>
>> Are they also dimmed using an LDR? If so, turn dimming off - if you have
>> access to the source code, you could turn dimming off briefly when the
>> clock turns on.
>>
>> On Wednesday, November 29, 2023 at 9:43:48 PM UTC-5 Jeff Walton wrote:
>>
>>> I've recently come across a situation where I have some tubes in a clock
>>> that are being directly driven and are having trouble starting when the
>>> room is darkened but light right up when a room light is turned on.  These
>>> particular tubes were probably intended for use in a calculator.  They are
>>> seven segment neon MG-17G tubes.  Once the tubes have any of the segments
>>> lit, there is really no issue with the performance.  It's when the tubes go
>>> completely dark if a space is used while scrolling a message or lighting a
>>> dash on and off to emulate a colon.  I'm wondering if others have found any
>>> particular tricks to help convince tubes to light up.  There is no
>>> "baselighting" and the HV is ~172v.  I'm considering increasing the HV by
>>> 10-15v but don't want to over drive the tubes.  Short of putting a
>>> radioactive source in the vicinity, are there other things that anyone has
>>> had any luck with?
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>>
>> --
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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Helping Nixie Tubes Fire in a Darkened Room

[Jeff Walton]

Have some 365 and 395nm LED chips on order to experiment with.  Will try 
some things when I get them.  Hopefully they will help and I can hide them 
under the tube.  I saw some 245nm LEDs but super expensive and larger.

On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 9:28:27 AM UTC-6 Tidak Ada wrote:

> Why  not a trial with UV-LED’s 365 nm is a useful wavelength and you don’t 
> need to use then at full power. 
>
> You can use them in a pulsed mode only during refresh of the display to 
> avoid too much O3 production. Iyt is not as hazardous as the use of 
> ß-radiating isotopes as used in rigger tubes.
>
>  
>
> eric
>
>  
>
> *Van:* neoni...@googlegroups.com [mailto:neoni...@googlegroups.com] *Namens 
> *Jon
> *Verzonden:* donderdag 30 november 2023 9:25
> *Aan:* neonixie-l
> *Onderwerp:* [neonixie-l] Re: Helping Nixie Tubes Fire in a Darkened Room
>
>  
>
> I think the best approach would be to increase the HV. If you look at the 
> discussions of glow physics in Weston or Acton for example, the lag in 
> striking a glow from dark (which is what we're talking about here) is 
> reduced by using an anode voltage materially above the threshold striking 
> voltage. Overdrive is a matter of tube current rather than anode voltage 
> per se, so a simple compensatory tweak to the current-limiting resistor 
> value will get you back to the same tube current as now. The cost of the 
> change will be a little extra power dissipated in the current-limiting 
> resistors, but that should be immaterial in most circumstances.
>
>  
>
> Jon.
>
> On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 3:27:11 AM UTC gregebert wrote:
>
> UV light source, such as from an LED ? 
>
> On Wednesday, November 29, 2023 at 6:43:48 PM UTC-8 Jeff Walton wrote:
>
> I've recently come across a situation where I have some tubes in a clock 
> that are being directly driven and are having trouble starting when the 
> room is darkened but light right up when a room light is turned on.  These 
> particular tubes were probably intended for use in a calculator.  They are 
> seven segment neon MG-17G tubes.  Once the tubes have any of the segments 
> lit, there is really no issue with the performance.  It's when the tubes go 
> completely dark if a space is used while scrolling a message or lighting a 
> dash on and off to emulate a colon.  I'm wondering if others have found any 
> particular tricks to help convince tubes to light up.  There is no 
> "baselighting" and the HV is ~172v.  I'm considering increasing the HV by 
> 10-15v but don't want to over drive the tubes.  Short of putting a 
> radioactive source in the vicinity, are there other things that anyone has 
> had any luck with?
>
>  
>
> Jeff
>
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> .
>

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[neonixie-l] Re: Helping Nixie Tubes Fire in a Darkened Room

[Jeff Walton]

Not dimmed.  Tried to do a momentary hit on all segments to "wake" up the 
tube and it helped some but the extra flash is distracting.

On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 9:04:36 AM UTC-6 Paul Andrews wrote:

> Are they also dimmed using an LDR? If so, turn dimming off - if you have 
> access to the source code, you could turn dimming off briefly when the 
> clock turns on.
>
> On Wednesday, November 29, 2023 at 9:43:48 PM UTC-5 Jeff Walton wrote:
>
>> I've recently come across a situation where I have some tubes in a clock 
>> that are being directly driven and are having trouble starting when the 
>> room is darkened but light right up when a room light is turned on.  These 
>> particular tubes were probably intended for use in a calculator.  They are 
>> seven segment neon MG-17G tubes.  Once the tubes have any of the segments 
>> lit, there is really no issue with the performance.  It's when the tubes go 
>> completely dark if a space is used while scrolling a message or lighting a 
>> dash on and off to emulate a colon.  I'm wondering if others have found any 
>> particular tricks to help convince tubes to light up.  There is no 
>> "baselighting" and the HV is ~172v.  I'm considering increasing the HV by 
>> 10-15v but don't want to over drive the tubes.  Short of putting a 
>> radioactive source in the vicinity, are there other things that anyone has 
>> had any luck with?
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Helping Nixie Tubes Fire in a Darkened Room

[John]

I had a radio (can't remember the type,) that had a small neon bulb under 
the chassis ...and NE2 perhaps. I think it was used as a cheap and dirty 
voltage reference .   The thing was, when the chassis was flat on the bench 
in operating position, the bulb would never fire. When I tipped it on its 
edge and the bench light shined brightly on the undersides, it would fire 
fine as apparently the bench light induced just enough additional 
excitation to allow it to light. 

It took a while to figure that out.

John



On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 10:28:27 AM UTC-5 Tidak Ada wrote:

> Why  not a trial with UV-LED’s 365 nm is a useful wavelength and you don’t 
> need to use then at full power. 
>
> You can use them in a pulsed mode only during refresh of the display to 
> avoid too much O3 production. Iyt is not as hazardous as the use of 
> ß-radiating isotopes as used in rigger tubes.
>
>  
>
> eric
>
>  
>
> *Van:* neoni...@googlegroups.com [mailto:neoni...@googlegroups.com] *Namens 
> *Jon
> *Verzonden:* donderdag 30 november 2023 9:25
> *Aan:* neonixie-l
> *Onderwerp:* [neonixie-l] Re: Helping Nixie Tubes Fire in a Darkened Room
>
>  
>
> I think the best approach would be to increase the HV. If you look at the 
> discussions of glow physics in Weston or Acton for example, the lag in 
> striking a glow from dark (which is what we're talking about here) is 
> reduced by using an anode voltage materially above the threshold striking 
> voltage. Overdrive is a matter of tube current rather than anode voltage 
> per se, so a simple compensatory tweak to the current-limiting resistor 
> value will get you back to the same tube current as now. The cost of the 
> change will be a little extra power dissipated in the current-limiting 
> resistors, but that should be immaterial in most circumstances.
>
>  
>
> Jon.
>
> On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 3:27:11 AM UTC gregebert wrote:
>
> UV light source, such as from an LED ? 
>
> On Wednesday, November 29, 2023 at 6:43:48 PM UTC-8 Jeff Walton wrote:
>
> I've recently come across a situation where I have some tubes in a clock 
> that are being directly driven and are having trouble starting when the 
> room is darkened but light right up when a room light is turned on.  These 
> particular tubes were probably intended for use in a calculator.  They are 
> seven segment neon MG-17G tubes.  Once the tubes have any of the segments 
> lit, there is really no issue with the performance.  It's when the tubes go 
> completely dark if a space is used while scrolling a message or lighting a 
> dash on and off to emulate a colon.  I'm wondering if others have found any 
> particular tricks to help convince tubes to light up.  There is no 
> "baselighting" and the HV is ~172v.  I'm considering increasing the HV by 
> 10-15v but don't want to over drive the tubes.  Short of putting a 
> radioactive source in the vicinity, are there other things that anyone has 
> had any luck with?
>
>  
>
> Jeff
>
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> .
>

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RE: [neonixie-l] Re: Helping Nixie Tubes Fire in a Darkened Room

[Tidak Ada]

Why  not a trial with UV-LED’s 365 nm is a useful wavelength and you don’t need 
to use then at full power. 

You can use them in a pulsed mode only during refresh of the display to avoid 
too much O3 production. Iyt is not as hazardous as the use of ß-radiating 
isotopes as used in rigger tubes.

 

eric

 

Van: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com [mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com] Namens Jon
Verzonden: donderdag 30 november 2023 9:25
Aan: neonixie-l
Onderwerp: [neonixie-l] Re: Helping Nixie Tubes Fire in a Darkened Room

 

I think the best approach would be to increase the HV. If you look at the 
discussions of glow physics in Weston or Acton for example, the lag in striking 
a glow from dark (which is what we're talking about here) is reduced by using 
an anode voltage materially above the threshold striking voltage. Overdrive is 
a matter of tube current rather than anode voltage per se, so a simple 
compensatory tweak to the current-limiting resistor value will get you back to 
the same tube current as now. The cost of the change will be a little extra 
power dissipated in the current-limiting resistors, but that should be 
immaterial in most circumstances.

 

Jon.

On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 3:27:11 AM UTC gregebert wrote:

UV light source, such as from an LED ? 

On Wednesday, November 29, 2023 at 6:43:48 PM UTC-8 Jeff Walton wrote:

I've recently come across a situation where I have some tubes in a clock that 
are being directly driven and are having trouble starting when the room is 
darkened but light right up when a room light is turned on.  These particular 
tubes were probably intended for use in a calculator.  They are seven segment 
neon MG-17G tubes.  Once the tubes have any of the segments lit, there is 
really no issue with the performance.  It's when the tubes go completely dark 
if a space is used while scrolling a message or lighting a dash on and off to 
emulate a colon.  I'm wondering if others have found any particular tricks to 
help convince tubes to light up.  There is no "baselighting" and the HV is 
~172v.  I'm considering increasing the HV by 10-15v but don't want to over 
drive the tubes.  Short of putting a radioactive source in the vicinity, are 
there other things that anyone has had any luck with?

 

Jeff

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[neonixie-l] Re: Helping Nixie Tubes Fire in a Darkened Room

[Paul Andrews]

Are they also dimmed using an LDR? If so, turn dimming off - if you have 
access to the source code, you could turn dimming off briefly when the 
clock turns on.

On Wednesday, November 29, 2023 at 9:43:48 PM UTC-5 Jeff Walton wrote:

> I've recently come across a situation where I have some tubes in a clock 
> that are being directly driven and are having trouble starting when the 
> room is darkened but light right up when a room light is turned on.  These 
> particular tubes were probably intended for use in a calculator.  They are 
> seven segment neon MG-17G tubes.  Once the tubes have any of the segments 
> lit, there is really no issue with the performance.  It's when the tubes go 
> completely dark if a space is used while scrolling a message or lighting a 
> dash on and off to emulate a colon.  I'm wondering if others have found any 
> particular tricks to help convince tubes to light up.  There is no 
> "baselighting" and the HV is ~172v.  I'm considering increasing the HV by 
> 10-15v but don't want to over drive the tubes.  Short of putting a 
> radioactive source in the vicinity, are there other things that anyone has 
> had any luck with?
>
> Jeff
>

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[neonixie-l] Re: Helping Nixie Tubes Fire in a Darkened Room

[Jon]

I think the best approach would be to increase the HV. If you look at the 
discussions of glow physics in Weston or Acton for example, the lag in 
striking a glow from dark (which is what we're talking about here) is 
reduced by using an anode voltage materially above the threshold striking 
voltage. Overdrive is a matter of tube current rather than anode voltage 
per se, so a simple compensatory tweak to the current-limiting resistor 
value will get you back to the same tube current as now. The cost of the 
change will be a little extra power dissipated in the current-limiting 
resistors, but that should be immaterial in most circumstances.

Jon.

On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 3:27:11 AM UTC gregebert wrote:

> UV light source, such as from an LED ? 
>
> On Wednesday, November 29, 2023 at 6:43:48 PM UTC-8 Jeff Walton wrote:
>
>> I've recently come across a situation where I have some tubes in a clock 
>> that are being directly driven and are having trouble starting when the 
>> room is darkened but light right up when a room light is turned on.  These 
>> particular tubes were probably intended for use in a calculator.  They are 
>> seven segment neon MG-17G tubes.  Once the tubes have any of the segments 
>> lit, there is really no issue with the performance.  It's when the tubes go 
>> completely dark if a space is used while scrolling a message or lighting a 
>> dash on and off to emulate a colon.  I'm wondering if others have found any 
>> particular tricks to help convince tubes to light up.  There is no 
>> "baselighting" and the HV is ~172v.  I'm considering increasing the HV by 
>> 10-15v but don't want to over drive the tubes.  Short of putting a 
>> radioactive source in the vicinity, are there other things that anyone has 
>> had any luck with?
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>

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[neonixie-l] Re: Helping Nixie Tubes Fire in a Darkened Room

[gregebert]

UV light source, such as from an LED ? 

On Wednesday, November 29, 2023 at 6:43:48 PM UTC-8 Jeff Walton wrote:

> I've recently come across a situation where I have some tubes in a clock 
> that are being directly driven and are having trouble starting when the 
> room is darkened but light right up when a room light is turned on.  These 
> particular tubes were probably intended for use in a calculator.  They are 
> seven segment neon MG-17G tubes.  Once the tubes have any of the segments 
> lit, there is really no issue with the performance.  It's when the tubes go 
> completely dark if a space is used while scrolling a message or lighting a 
> dash on and off to emulate a colon.  I'm wondering if others have found any 
> particular tricks to help convince tubes to light up.  There is no 
> "baselighting" and the HV is ~172v.  I'm considering increasing the HV by 
> 10-15v but don't want to over drive the tubes.  Short of putting a 
> radioactive source in the vicinity, are there other things that anyone has 
> had any luck with?
>
> Jeff
>

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