Re: Recent video-related commits: summary wanted
On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 05:02:30PM +0100, Patrick Welche wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 04:54:11PM +0100, Gerard Lally wrote:
> > Thanks for the information Roy. I'm probably slow to understand this but
> > is this DRM a supplement to the {nvidia,nouveau,radeon} driver or a
> > replacement for it?
>
> I see it rather as DRM/KMS (I'm not acronym compliant) is a necessary
> prerequisite for "new" intel, etc., drivers to work.
That's my understanding as well and it makes sense. After all, if the
kernel defines its own interface for graphics functionality, then
other graphics-related software like the X Server would want to use
it if only to interact better with the kernel.
I am kind of curious about the Nouveau vs. NVidia drivers. Both
target NVidia GPUs and Nouveau was started as a reverse-engineering
effort due to NVidia driver licensing issues. On one of my systems,
I'm using the NVidia X server under NetBSD 6 and 7 without any real
problems. I've also had fairly good luck with the Nouveau driver
under Linux on the same hardware. Does anyone have any idea which
direction NetBSD 7 will take regarding NVidia graphics drivers?
--
Roy Bixler
"The fundamental principle of science, the definition almost, is this: the
sole test of the validity of any idea is experiment."
-- Richard P. Feynman
Re: Recent video-related commits: summary wanted
On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 04:54:11PM +0100, Gerard Lally wrote:
> Thanks for the information Roy. I'm probably slow to understand this but
> is this DRM a supplement to the {nvidia,nouveau,radeon} driver or a
> replacement for it?
I see it rather as DRM/KMS (I'm not acronym compliant) is a necessary
prerequisite for "new" intel, etc., drivers to work.
Cheers,
Patrick
Re: Recent video-related commits: summary wanted
At date and time Mon, 18 Aug 2014 08:39:22 -0600, Roy Bixler wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 09:30:50PM +0100, Gerard Lally wrote:
> > There have been many video-related commits to the source tree recently,
> > which I am doing my best to understand. Radeon, nouveau, drm, kms, and
> > the like. It would be nice if someone would summarise what is happening
> > and what difference it makes, and whether NetBSD 7 will benefit. A
> > question I have for starters: do these changes bring native X up to date
> > in -7, and if so would there be any compelling reason to choose modular
> > X instead?
>
> Whether NetBSD 7 benefits is on the eye of the beholder, but I believe
> the basic purpose of these commits is to import code from the Linux
> Direct Rendering Manager subsystem. This is the part of the kernel
> that interfaces with the Graphics Processing Unit of the system. The
> idea is to put the system into graphics mode at bootup, eliminating
> the classic "text mode". In a sense, text mode still exists from what
> I've seen of Linux systems, which generally use the DRM subsystem to
> change fonts to different sizes. The X Server's operation becomes
> more seamless.
>
> I don't think I've seen the full benefit of this code yet, since the
> system I've installed NetBSD 7 on has an NVidia card and it doesn't
> seem that Nouveau is active by default. I will be interested to see
> how it works. If it's like my expreience in Linux, then it will work
> fairly well and actually be more stable than the proprietary NVidia
> driver. The disadvantage is that it doesn't support as many NVidia
> cards or, for the cards it does support, it may not support all of the
> features of those cards. I also found that suspend/resume worked
> better with the NVidia driver than with the Nouveau driver.
Thanks for the information Roy. I'm probably slow to understand this but
is this DRM a supplement to the {nvidia,nouveau,radeon} driver or a
replacement for it? It seems to me from what you say in the first
paragraph its scope is quite narrow, affecting only bootup, but then in
your second paragraph it seems to be a replacement for the driver - you
hope it is "more stable than the proprietary NVidia driver".
--
Gerard Lally
Re: Recent video-related commits: summary wanted
On 16/08/14 22:30, Gerard Lally wrote: > There have been many video-related commits to the source tree recently, > which I am doing my best to understand. Radeon, nouveau, drm, kms, and > the like. It would be nice if someone would summarise what is happening > and what difference it makes, In a strict practical sense.. I bought a graphics card for my NetBSD system a few years back which is no longer available in stores (since long ago). When I mentioned this card on IRC a while back someone said "That's the last ATI chip you'll get working with accelerated graphics in NetBSD until DRM/KMS is supported.". Essentially, not having DRM/KMS sets a date which more or less says "chips released after this date won't work in xorg on your system, because all the new drivers use DRM/KMS.". Getting DRM/KMS won't magically make all chips available to NetBSD, but it'll allow more (and more importantly: somewhat recent) graphics cards to be used with acceleration. In short: Assume that "all" new xorg drivers use DRM/KMS. -- Kind Regards, Jan
Re: Recent video-related commits: summary wanted
On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 09:30:50PM +0100, Gerard Lally wrote: > There have been many video-related commits to the source tree recently, > which I am doing my best to understand. Radeon, nouveau, drm, kms, and > the like. It would be nice if someone would summarise what is happening > and what difference it makes, and whether NetBSD 7 will benefit. A > question I have for starters: do these changes bring native X up to date > in -7, and if so would there be any compelling reason to choose modular > X instead? Whether NetBSD 7 benefits is on the eye of the beholder, but I believe the basic purpose of these commits is to import code from the Linux Direct Rendering Manager subsystem. This is the part of the kernel that interfaces with the Graphics Processing Unit of the system. The idea is to put the system into graphics mode at bootup, eliminating the classic "text mode". In a sense, text mode still exists from what I've seen of Linux systems, which generally use the DRM subsystem to change fonts to different sizes. The X Server's operation becomes more seamless. I don't think I've seen the full benefit of this code yet, since the system I've installed NetBSD 7 on has an NVidia card and it doesn't seem that Nouveau is active by default. I will be interested to see how it works. If it's like my expreience in Linux, then it will work fairly well and actually be more stable than the proprietary NVidia driver. The disadvantage is that it doesn't support as many NVidia cards or, for the cards it does support, it may not support all of the features of those cards. I also found that suspend/resume worked better with the NVidia driver than with the Nouveau driver. -- Roy Bixler "The fundamental principle of science, the definition almost, is this: the sole test of the validity of any idea is experiment." -- Richard P. Feynman
Recent video-related commits: summary wanted
There have been many video-related commits to the source tree recently, which I am doing my best to understand. Radeon, nouveau, drm, kms, and the like. It would be nice if someone would summarise what is happening and what difference it makes, and whether NetBSD 7 will benefit. A question I have for starters: do these changes bring native X up to date in -7, and if so would there be any compelling reason to choose modular X instead? -- Gerard Lally
