Re: amd64 SBCs on which NetBSD would run ?
Jason Mitchell writes: >> Sure, but there is also "runs on small amounts of 12V". I think often >> people want (I do) a low power machine that will cause zero trouble, and >> improvements in performance aren't that big a deal. (I'm not entirely >> clear on apu2 power, but the Soekris boxes run on 12V. They are of >> course unobtainable and by now very slow (net5501) or unreliable and >> slow (net6501), it seems.) > > The apu1c runs on 12V (I’ve used these) as does the apu2c @ 6W to 12W, > that’s according to pcengines.ch. Unfortunately their 12V connector on > the apu1c doesn’t seem to be the same size as any of the other 12V > power supplies I’ve tried. Thanks. Of course it should be 5.5x2.1mm center +, like everything else, but finding the right connector shouldn't be that hard, and there's always cutting the cord on the provided supply and putting in Anderson Powerpoles. Do you have any sense if they really mean 12.0V exactly, or if the 11-14V from a lead acid battery on solar float charge is ok? (That is ok on soekris, as it is going into a 5V regulator.)
Re: amd64 SBCs on which NetBSD would run ?
> On May 7, 2019, at 6:17 PM, Greg Troxel wrote: > > Andrew Luke Nesbit writes: > >> For the same money as the APU2 you can get a real mainboard, one with a >> much more solid construction and better performance. Similarly with >> many other SBC's in that price level. If you look hard enough you can >> get an entry-level serverboard with IPMI for not much more money. > > Sure, but there is also "runs on small amounts of 12V". I think often > people want (I do) a low power machine that will cause zero trouble, and > improvements in performance aren't that big a deal. (I'm not entirely > clear on apu2 power, but the Soekris boxes run on 12V. They are of > course unobtainable and by now very slow (net5501) or unreliable and > slow (net6501), it seems.) Hello, The apu1c runs on 12V (I’ve used these) as does the apu2c @ 6W to 12W, that’s according to pcengines.ch. Unfortunately their 12V connector on the apu1c doesn’t seem to be the same size as any of the other 12V power supplies I’ve tried. Thanks, Jason M. Sent from my iPhone
Re: amd64 SBCs on which NetBSD would run ?
On 07/05/2019 13:23, David Brownlee wrote: On Sat, 4 May 2019 at 18:16, Mike Pumford wrote: On 04/05/2019 15:30, Mayuresh wrote: On Sat, May 04, 2019 at 05:49:58PM +0800, Travis Paul wrote: You mentioned that you were looking for an amd64 board. Have you looked at the PCEngines APU2 boards[1]? I have not personally tried them but perhaps they fit your needs. Thanks. Looks interesting though I could not find A. international availability / shipping B. Whether NetBSD would run on it. NetBSD 8 runs nicely on them and as far as I can tell everything is supported. No reason why current wouldn't work either although I've not actually booted it. Last I checked I don't think the front LEDs were supported, and I can't confirm the onboard mSSD (as I have a few running on SD cards as drop in replacements for the older PCEngines boards). Just installed an mSATA SSD in mine which was my plan all along. I'd been temporarily booting of an SD card while experimenting. Excert from dmesg: NetBSD 8.0_STABLE NetBSD 8.0_STABLE (GENERIC) #0: Sat Apr 13 09:22:12 BST 2019 amd64 ahcisata0 at pci0 dev 17 function 0: vendor 1022 product 7800 (rev. 0x40) ahcisata0: interrupting at ioapic0 pin 19 ahcisata0: 64-bit DMA ahcisata0: AHCI revision 1.30, 2 ports, 32 slots, CAP 0xf733ff01 atabus0 at ahcisata0 channel 0 atabus1 at ahcisata0 channel 1 wd0 at atabus0 drive 0 wd0: wd0: drive supports 1-sector PIO transfers, LBA48 addressing wd0: 465 GB, 969021 cyl, 16 head, 63 sec, 512 bytes/sect x 976773168 sectors wd0: drive supports PIO mode 4, DMA mode 2, Ultra-DMA mode 6 (Ultra/133) wd0(ahcisata0:0:0): using PIO mode 4, DMA mode 2, Ultra-DMA mode 6 (Ultra/133) (using DMA) Write speed is about 150MB/s, read speed is about 250MB/s These are not as fast as the claimed performance numbers for the SSD but they are good enough for me. :) Kernel build date reflects when the 8-stable source was pulled from CVS. For comparison a net6501 using 7.2-STABLE gets about 100MB/s read and a sad 20MB/s write out of the following: ahcisata0 at pci2 dev 6 function 0: vendor 0x8086 product 0x880b (rev. 0x02) ahcisata0: interrupting at ioapic0 pin 17 ahcisata0: AHCI revision 1.10, 2 ports, 32 slots, CAP 0x6f26ff81 atabus0 at ahcisata0 channel 0 atabus1 at ahcisata0 channel 1 wd0 at atabus0 drive 0 wd0: wd0: drive supports 1-sector PIO transfers, LBA48 addressing wd0: 232 GB, 484521 cyl, 16 head, 63 sec, 512 bytes/sect x 488397168 sectors wd0: drive supports PIO mode 4, DMA mode 2, Ultra-DMA mode 6 (Ultra/133) wd0(ahcisata0:0:0): using PIO mode 4, DMA mode 2, Ultra-DMA mode 6 (Ultra/133) (using DMA) The net6501 has really bad ATA write performance. No more than 20MB/s under any OS even on disks capable of far more. This was one of my motivating factors for changing as it makes running things like rrdtool really bad when there is a lot of data to update to disk. Mike
Re: amd64 SBCs on which NetBSD would run ?
Andrew Luke Nesbit writes: > For the same money as the APU2 you can get a real mainboard, one with a > much more solid construction and better performance. Similarly with > many other SBC's in that price level. If you look hard enough you can > get an entry-level serverboard with IPMI for not much more money. Sure, but there is also "runs on small amounts of 12V". I think often people want (I do) a low power machine that will cause zero trouble, and improvements in performance aren't that big a deal. (I'm not entirely clear on apu2 power, but the Soekris boxes run on 12V. They are of course unobtainable and by now very slow (net5501) or unreliable and slow (net6501), it seems.)
Re: amd64 SBCs on which NetBSD would run ?
On 07/05/2019 13:23, David Brownlee wrote: > On Sat, 4 May 2019 at 18:16, Mike Pumford wrote: >> >> On 04/05/2019 15:30, Mayuresh wrote: >>> On Sat, May 04, 2019 at 05:49:58PM +0800, Travis Paul wrote: You mentioned that you were looking for an amd64 board. Have you looked at the PCEngines APU2 boards[1]? I have not personally tried them but perhaps they fit your needs. I hope you don't mind me jumping in on the conversation at this late stage. I've always had a bit of an allergic reaction to "high end" SBC's like the APU2. I feel they are overpriced, sometimes very much so. For the same money as the APU2 you can get a real mainboard, one with a much more solid construction and better performance. Similarly with many other SBC's in that price level. If you look hard enough you can get an entry-level serverboard with IPMI for not much more money. I do like SBC's very much. My favorite SBC is the OPi+2E, and I hope to get NetBSD running on it in the near future. But the advantage of SBC's (for me) is when they are very cheap and/or promote creative things. Andrew -- OpenPGP key: EB28 0338 28B7 19DA DAB0 B193 D21D 996E 883B E5B9
Re: amd64 SBCs on which NetBSD would run ?
On Tue, 7 May 2019 at 13:44, Andrew Luke Nesbit wrote: > > On 07/05/2019 13:23, David Brownlee wrote: > > On Sat, 4 May 2019 at 18:16, Mike Pumford > > wrote: > >> > >> On 04/05/2019 15:30, Mayuresh wrote: > >>> On Sat, May 04, 2019 at 05:49:58PM +0800, Travis Paul wrote: > You mentioned that you were looking for an amd64 board. Have you looked > at the PCEngines APU2 boards[1]? I have not personally tried them but > perhaps they fit your needs. > > I hope you don't mind me jumping in on the conversation at this late > stage. I've always had a bit of an allergic reaction to "high end" > SBC's like the APU2. I feel they are overpriced, sometimes very much so. > > For the same money as the APU2 you can get a real mainboard, one with a > much more solid construction and better performance. Similarly with > many other SBC's in that price level. If you look hard enough you can > get an entry-level serverboard with IPMI for not much more money. > > I do like SBC's very much. My favorite SBC is the OPi+2E, and I hope to > get NetBSD running on it in the near future. But the advantage of SBC's > (for me) is when they are very cheap and/or promote creative things. The APU2 is definitely overpriced for general purpose computing. We started with the alix2d3 which suited our requirements of: small, robust, three network ports, easily available and (optional but desired) POE compatible. The APU2 was an obvious drop in replacement with better capabilities all round and we could keep using a single x86 image which would work on all units. At the time I looked for but couldn't find an arm/mips option - if I were starting again that could well be different :) David
Re: amd64 SBCs on which NetBSD would run ?
On Sat, May 04, 2019 at 06:16:37PM +0100, Mike Pumford wrote: > > > On 04/05/2019 15:30, Mayuresh wrote: > > On Sat, May 04, 2019 at 05:49:58PM +0800, Travis Paul wrote: > > > You mentioned that you were looking for an amd64 board. Have you looked > > > at the PCEngines APU2 boards[1]? I have not personally tried them but > > > perhaps they fit your needs. > > > > > > Thanks. Looks interesting though I could not find A. international > > availability / shipping B. Whether NetBSD would run on it. > > > NetBSD 8 runs nicely on them and as far as I can tell everything is > supported. Yes, since I added the temperature sensor. ;-) I'm using two at home, although the heavier-duty one with a third-party case with more heat sink capacity. -is
Re: amd64 SBCs on which NetBSD would run ?
On Sat, 4 May 2019 at 18:16, Mike Pumford wrote: > > On 04/05/2019 15:30, Mayuresh wrote: > > On Sat, May 04, 2019 at 05:49:58PM +0800, Travis Paul wrote: > >> You mentioned that you were looking for an amd64 board. Have you looked > >> at the PCEngines APU2 boards[1]? I have not personally tried them but > >> perhaps they fit your needs. > > > > > > Thanks. Looks interesting though I could not find A. international > > availability / shipping B. Whether NetBSD would run on it. > > > NetBSD 8 runs nicely on them and as far as I can tell everything is > supported. No reason why current wouldn't work either although I've not > actually booted it. Last I checked I don't think the front LEDs were supported, and I can't confirm the onboard mSSD (as I have a few running on SD cards as drop in replacements for the older PCEngines boards). :) David
Re: amd64 SBCs on which NetBSD would run ?
If you really want to go with amd64, I'd suggest an Intel NUC. It's what I have been using for the last few years. They are small, fast but not very cheap. NetBSD-current supports mine really well, except for its Thunderbolt port.
Re: amd64 SBCs on which NetBSD would run ?
On Sat, 4 May 2019 09:53:32 +0100 Chavdar Ivanov wrote: > I was thinking of buying https://dlidirect.com/products/atomic-pi , > which should work, but is apparently out of stock. Looks rather > appealing, though. Look at the size of that heatsink and the max speed is 1.9GHz. I have similar size on an old Intel Xeon. Raspberry Pi 3 at 1.4GHz is far more compact and probably not that much slower.
Re: amd64 SBCs on which NetBSD would run ?
On Sat, May 04, 2019 at 05:49:58PM +0800, Travis Paul wrote: > You mentioned that you were looking for an amd64 board. Have you looked > at the PCEngines APU2 boards[1]? I have not personally tried them but > perhaps they fit your needs. Thanks. Looks interesting though I could not find A. international availability / shipping B. Whether NetBSD would run on it. Surprisingly amd64 SBCs are so rare to find, and further one has to find one with NetBSD compatibility. Mayuresh
Re: amd64 SBCs on which NetBSD would run ?
Well, it's horses for courses... Some may need or require i386/amd64 architecture. It is certainly the cheapest Intel-based board I have seen advertised. Anyway, yesterday some of the order options were still available, today everything is shown as out of stock. I still intend to monitor UK availability and perhaps try it. As it is running different Linux versions and able to run Windows 10, chances are that it will run NetBSD-current out of the box, albeit with lack of support of some of the devices, i.e. sensors. If it doesn't, then it still could be used with one of the Linux distributions for something, so it wouldn't be a total loss. On Sat, 4 May 2019 at 10:32, Sad Clouds wrote: > > On Sat, 4 May 2019 09:53:32 +0100 > Chavdar Ivanov wrote: > > > I was thinking of buying https://dlidirect.com/products/atomic-pi , > > which should work, but is apparently out of stock. Looks rather > > appealing, though. > > Look at the size of that heatsink and the max speed is 1.9GHz. I have > similar size on an old Intel Xeon. Raspberry Pi 3 at 1.4GHz is far more > compact and probably not that much slower. --
Re: amd64 SBCs on which NetBSD would run ?
On Sat, May 04, 2019 at 09:53:32AM +0100, Chavdar Ivanov wrote: > I was thinking of buying https://dlidirect.com/products/atomic-pi , > which should work, but is apparently out of stock. Looks rather > appealing, though. Yes, looks good, though unavailable. But any references of it having worked with NetBSD? Mayuresh
Re: amd64 SBCs on which NetBSD would run ?
I was thinking of buying https://dlidirect.com/products/atomic-pi , which should work, but is apparently out of stock. Looks rather appealing, though. As far as RPI and pkgsrc, I have the original RPI Zero with pkgsrc, it does what I need it for, although from time to time I have to reokace the sd cards. It builds the packages for another RPI Model B, which works as DNS/FTP/HTTP/time server at home; they both are on early versions of -current. On Sat, 4 May 2019 at 06:05, Mayuresh wrote: > > I am using RPI2 with NetBSD for a certain requirement. There are some > rough edges (wifi support, usb hub not working, media player not working > etc.) Besides it's too slow to do any builds of pkgsrc. > > Was wondering whether there are SBC boards where I can use my amd64 > packages compiled on other devices. The board itself need not have a high > end configuration (RPI like configuration is good enough) - just that > NetBSD should work on it and it should have amd64 arch. > > Tried searching, but most SBCs seem arm based. Among those that are amd64 > based it's hard to figure out whether NetBSD would support it. > > Please do share recommendations / experiences. > > Mayuresh --
amd64 SBCs on which NetBSD would run ?
I am using RPI2 with NetBSD for a certain requirement. There are some rough edges (wifi support, usb hub not working, media player not working etc.) Besides it's too slow to do any builds of pkgsrc. Was wondering whether there are SBC boards where I can use my amd64 packages compiled on other devices. The board itself need not have a high end configuration (RPI like configuration is good enough) - just that NetBSD should work on it and it should have amd64 arch. Tried searching, but most SBCs seem arm based. Among those that are amd64 based it's hard to figure out whether NetBSD would support it. Please do share recommendations / experiences. Mayuresh
