Re: sponsor NetBSD for 2020 https://github.com/sponsors/NetBSD
On Tue, 10 Nov 2020 19:48:47 + m...@netbsd.org wrote: > Also, I strongly recommend offering a bounty for smaller units of > work, even when you want a bigger one. It avoids problems with people > dividing the work. > > If you would like this to be curated "officially" we can create a wiki > page to coordinate the most up to date version of this. I think it would need to be a group effort. For example, in order to complete the port of NetBSD to sun4v in the next 6 months: NetBSD foundation would estimate the time and cost involved. They could reach out to various Net/Open/Free BSD developers and negotiate reasonable rates. Looks like some work on sun4v has been done, so may need some help to resolve remaining issues and port a few drivers. I really don't know much about it. Take the estimates to NetBSD users and do a survey of how many people would contribute and how much. Based on the responses, establish viability of this project. If the project is to go ahead, reach out to those users again and ask them to pay previously pledged contributions into a special fund allocated for this project. NetBSD foundation would need to take responsibility for managing the project and supporting the development process. I would be happy to contribute a reasonable amount, but would not be able to cover all the costs on my own.
Re: sponsor NetBSD for 2020 https://github.com/sponsors/NetBSD
> On Nov 10, 2020, at 11:47 AM, Jeffrey Walton wrote: > > > Oh, interesting. I've looked for NetBSD swag but I have not been able > to find it. Confer, https://www.amazon.com/s?k=netbsd. I'm not referring to swag, I'm referring to the Smile program that donates a portion of eligible purchases to a selected non-profit registered with the program. -- thorpej
Re: sponsor NetBSD for 2020 https://github.com/sponsors/NetBSD
On Tue, Nov 10, 2020 at 06:59:32PM +, Sad Clouds wrote: > On Tue, 10 Nov 2020 18:25:09 + > m...@netbsd.org wrote: > > > As for sun4v, I believe Palle is doing work on this sometimes. > > Yes, I've seen from the posts on sparc64 mailing list that some people > are working on it, but often developers have other commitments and bills > to pay, so the progress can be very slow. Paying those developers to > work part or full time on various features would 1) help them pay the > bills, and 2) move features forward quicker. > > I suspect NetBSD users would be more willing to sponsor the features > that they can directly benefit from. In fact, this mode of software > development (pay per feature) should be encouraged. I appreciate that > NetBSD is a non-profit organization, but relying on other people to > donate their development time for free is not always the best approach, > i.e. feature development can drag on indefinitely. This is what I'm doing: http://mail-index.netbsd.org/tech-kern/2020/11/02/msg026882.html http://mail-index.netbsd.org/tech-pkg/2020/05/19/msg023185.html If you are interested on doing the same with sun4v, I think a good first step is to write completion criteria. With GNOME3, I preferred to write the coherent "GDM works" rather than the more nebulous "GNOME3" because it's not clear what the list of GNOME3 programs is. Also, I strongly recommend offering a bounty for smaller units of work, even when you want a bigger one. It avoids problems with people dividing the work. If you would like this to be curated "officially" we can create a wiki page to coordinate the most up to date version of this.
Re: sponsor NetBSD for 2020 https://github.com/sponsors/NetBSD
On Tue, Nov 10, 2020 at 11:53 AM Jason Thorpe wrote: > > > On Nov 10, 2020, at 6:18 AM, Jeffrey Walton wrote: > > > > NetBSD should consider Amazon, too. They have a program for donations > > to nonprofits. Amazon is a big marketplace with lots of users. The > > trust relationship is already in place for millions of potential > > donors. > > Yah, that's Amazon Smile, and NetBSD is already on it. Oh, interesting. I've looked for NetBSD swag but I have not been able to find it. Confer, https://www.amazon.com/s?k=netbsd. The search results provide a lot of books. On page 7 of the results there are a couple of FreeBSD and OpenBSD stickers. There's also a cool looking UNIX coffe mug. But nothing from NetBSD. Where's the cool swag :) Jeff
Re: sponsor NetBSD for 2020 https://github.com/sponsors/NetBSD
On Tue, 10 Nov 2020 18:25:09 + m...@netbsd.org wrote: > As for sun4v, I believe Palle is doing work on this sometimes. Yes, I've seen from the posts on sparc64 mailing list that some people are working on it, but often developers have other commitments and bills to pay, so the progress can be very slow. Paying those developers to work part or full time on various features would 1) help them pay the bills, and 2) move features forward quicker. I suspect NetBSD users would be more willing to sponsor the features that they can directly benefit from. In fact, this mode of software development (pay per feature) should be encouraged. I appreciate that NetBSD is a non-profit organization, but relying on other people to donate their development time for free is not always the best approach, i.e. feature development can drag on indefinitely.
Re: sponsor NetBSD for 2020 https://github.com/sponsors/NetBSD
> On Nov 10, 2020, at 9:06 AM, Vincent DEFERT <20@defert.com> wrote: > > > On 10/11/2020 17:53, Jason Thorpe wrote: >> Yah, that's Amazon Smile, and NetBSD is already on it. > > Are there geographic restrictions to this program? > I can't find it on smile.amazon.de. That, I don't know. -- thorpej
Re: sponsor NetBSD for 2020 https://github.com/sponsors/NetBSD
On Tue, 10 Nov 2020 at 18:25, wrote: > The usual way that TNF funding of projects work is that a developer will > come to TNF with a proposal for the project to fund their work. > Actively seeking out developers when nobody has come forward is a > challenge, because the sums of money are usually too little to have > consulting firms interested. > > In the absence of any framework, I've shamelessly posted that I am > offering a bounty for some netbsd/pkgsrc related work on > tech-pkg/tech-kern and it was successful (IMO). We can write down all > the names & offers if there are too many, but this is not the case now. > > As for sun4v, I believe Palle is doing work on this sometimes. I'm also quite taken by the idea of being able to donate towards specific goals (providing there is existing infrastructure which can be used without requiring significant setup or ongoing effort, and doesn't take too large a chunk as fees). The sums may only appeal to people casually hacking on code, but it may also provide a useful barometer for "Ah, quite a few people are interested enough in X to put up some $", and occasionally inform TNF decisions on where to apply funding. There is bountysource (which has an active campaign at $2,100 for the admittedly large task of updating the gcc VAX backend to the current gcc interfaces so it can be kept https://www.bountysource.com/issues/91495157-vax-convert-the-backend-to-mode_cc-so-it-can-be-kept-in-future-releases ), but the site did have availability issues and the search page takes in the order of minutes to show any results) David
Re: sponsor NetBSD for 2020 https://github.com/sponsors/NetBSD
On Tue, Nov 10, 2020 at 04:02:55PM +, Sad Clouds wrote: > On Tue, 10 Nov 2020 08:32:29 -0500 > matthew sporleder wrote: > > > Indeed -- casting a wide net is in our interest. I hope you are able > > to use one of our many potential donation offerings -- paypal, stripe, > > amazon smile, github sponsorship.. any I am missing? > > I think what may be missing is sponsorship for specific features. > NetBSD foundation normally decide where to spend the resources. It may > be used for worthwhile projects, but for different people some features > are more tangible than others. > > For example, I'd be interested in sponsoring NetBSD on sun4v > architecture with support for LDOMs. OpenBSD have done a lot of work in > this area and there may be a lot of potential for porting their code. > Some of their developers could be interested in doing it if NetBSD > agreed a full-time paid project. > > 1. Identify the scope and cost. > 2. If cost is feasible, setup project sponsorship page. > 3. If enough money is raised over a set period of time, project goes > ahead, otherwise money is returned to the sponsors. > 4. NetBSD oversee the delivery and quality of the project. > > This approach is more targeted and allows the sponsors to have a say in > how their money is spent. If nobody is interested in a project and not > enough money is raised, then - c'est la vie... The usual way that TNF funding of projects work is that a developer will come to TNF with a proposal for the project to fund their work. Actively seeking out developers when nobody has come forward is a challenge, because the sums of money are usually too little to have consulting firms interested. In the absence of any framework, I've shamelessly posted that I am offering a bounty for some netbsd/pkgsrc related work on tech-pkg/tech-kern and it was successful (IMO). We can write down all the names & offers if there are too many, but this is not the case now. As for sun4v, I believe Palle is doing work on this sometimes.
Re: sponsor NetBSD for 2020 https://github.com/sponsors/NetBSD
On 10/11/2020 17:53, Jason Thorpe wrote: Yah, that's Amazon Smile, and NetBSD is already on it. Are there geographic restrictions to this program? I can't find it on smile.amazon.de.
Re: sponsor NetBSD for 2020 https://github.com/sponsors/NetBSD
> On Nov 10, 2020, at 6:18 AM, Jeffrey Walton wrote: > > NetBSD should consider Amazon, too. They have a program for donations > to nonprofits. Amazon is a big marketplace with lots of users. The > trust relationship is already in place for millions of potential > donors. Yah, that's Amazon Smile, and NetBSD is already on it. -- thorpej
Re: sponsor NetBSD for 2020 https://github.com/sponsors/NetBSD
On Tue, 10 Nov 2020 08:32:29 -0500 matthew sporleder wrote: > Indeed -- casting a wide net is in our interest. I hope you are able > to use one of our many potential donation offerings -- paypal, stripe, > amazon smile, github sponsorship.. any I am missing? I think what may be missing is sponsorship for specific features. NetBSD foundation normally decide where to spend the resources. It may be used for worthwhile projects, but for different people some features are more tangible than others. For example, I'd be interested in sponsoring NetBSD on sun4v architecture with support for LDOMs. OpenBSD have done a lot of work in this area and there may be a lot of potential for porting their code. Some of their developers could be interested in doing it if NetBSD agreed a full-time paid project. 1. Identify the scope and cost. 2. If cost is feasible, setup project sponsorship page. 3. If enough money is raised over a set period of time, project goes ahead, otherwise money is returned to the sponsors. 4. NetBSD oversee the delivery and quality of the project. This approach is more targeted and allows the sponsors to have a say in how their money is spent. If nobody is interested in a project and not enough money is raised, then - c'est la vie...
Re: sponsor NetBSD for 2020 https://github.com/sponsors/NetBSD
On Tue, Nov 10, 2020 at 8:33 AM matthew sporleder wrote: > > Indeed -- casting a wide net is in our interest. I hope you are able > to use one of our many potential donation offerings -- paypal, stripe, > amazon smile, github sponsorship.. any I am missing? Multiple channels is a good thing. If a trust relationship exists between a donor and a site (one of GitHub, GitLab, SourceForge, Bitbucket, GNU Savannah, PayPal, Amazon, etc), then a donor can reach you. I think the bad idea is, only rely on one channel. As an example, some projects only provide a PayPal donation mechanism.I won't tolerate PayPal's shitty service and I don't trust PayPal. I can't make a donation. NetBSD should consider Amazon, too. They have a program for donations to nonprofits. Amazon is a big marketplace with lots of users. The trust relationship is already in place for millions of potential donors. In fact, I think projects like NetBSD should sell their swag on Amazon and eBay as a fund raiser. $10.00 for stickers, $20.00 for a coffee mug, $30.00 for a tee-shirt, etc. Folks like me are happy to pay more for the cool swag. Jeff
Re: sponsor NetBSD for 2020 https://github.com/sponsors/NetBSD
Am 10.11.2020 um 14:32 schrieb matthew sporleder: Indeed -- casting a wide net is in our interest. I hope you are able to use one of our many potential donation offerings -- paypal, stripe, amazon smile, github sponsorship.. any I am missing? So far my monthly subscription via Paypal has worked well. And the background of my question has already been answered - obviously the payment via Github is an advantage for the NetBSD Foundation at least in the first year, because Microsoft adds a dollar for every dollar donated? That would be a clear reason to change the payment provider at least for one year ;-) Kind regards Matthias
Re: sponsor NetBSD for 2020 https://github.com/sponsors/NetBSD
Indeed -- casting a wide net is in our interest. I hope you are able to use one of our many potential donation offerings -- paypal, stripe, amazon smile, github sponsorship.. any I am missing? On Tue, Nov 10, 2020 at 7:55 AM Sad Clouds wrote: > > On Tue, 10 Nov 2020 12:31:26 +0100 > Matthias Petermann wrote: > > > Hallo Matthew, > > > > Am 10.11.2020 um 05:35 schrieb matthew sporleder: > > > Hey -- the end of the year is coming up fast. Wouldn't you feel > > > better about yourself if you added a github sponsorship to balance > > > out your incredible year? :) > > How does this type of donation compare to a Paypal Monthly > > Subscription? Is it just a different way of transport, or are there > > advantages / disadvantages to Paypal? > > > > Kind regards > > Matthias > > It looks to me like github sponsorship is geared towards small > developers who don't have their own project web page, with > payment submission links, etc. The irritating thing about github is > that they don't allow you to submit bug reports or donations unless you > setup an account on their platform. Last thing I want to do is to create > various social media accounts on competing platform - GitHub, GitLab, > SourceForge, Bitbucket, GNU Savannah, ... and the list goes on. Life is > too short for that nonsense. Luckily NetBSD accept bug reports and > donations on their official web site, and you don't have to sign up for > anything.
Re: sponsor NetBSD for 2020 https://github.com/sponsors/NetBSD
On Tue, Nov 10, 2020 at 6:31 AM Matthias Petermann wrote: > > Hallo Matthew, > > Am 10.11.2020 um 05:35 schrieb matthew sporleder: > > Hey -- the end of the year is coming up fast. Wouldn't you feel > > better about yourself if you added a github sponsorship to balance out > > your incredible year? :) > How does this type of donation compare to a Paypal Monthly Subscription? > Is it just a different way of transport, or are there advantages / > disadvantages to Paypal? > > Kind regards > Matthias It is my understanding, although it hasn't been confirmed by finance-exec@, that microsoft is absorbing the fees for us. I am also intrigued by the potential network effects of sponsors encouraging more sponsors, etc.
Re: sponsor NetBSD for 2020 https://github.com/sponsors/NetBSD
On Tue, 10 Nov 2020 12:31:26 +0100 Matthias Petermann wrote: > Hallo Matthew, > > Am 10.11.2020 um 05:35 schrieb matthew sporleder: > > Hey -- the end of the year is coming up fast. Wouldn't you feel > > better about yourself if you added a github sponsorship to balance > > out your incredible year? :) > How does this type of donation compare to a Paypal Monthly > Subscription? Is it just a different way of transport, or are there > advantages / disadvantages to Paypal? > > Kind regards > Matthias It looks to me like github sponsorship is geared towards small developers who don't have their own project web page, with payment submission links, etc. The irritating thing about github is that they don't allow you to submit bug reports or donations unless you setup an account on their platform. Last thing I want to do is to create various social media accounts on competing platform - GitHub, GitLab, SourceForge, Bitbucket, GNU Savannah, ... and the list goes on. Life is too short for that nonsense. Luckily NetBSD accept bug reports and donations on their official web site, and you don't have to sign up for anything.
Re: sponsor NetBSD for 2020 https://github.com/sponsors/NetBSD
Hallo Matthew, Am 10.11.2020 um 05:35 schrieb matthew sporleder: Hey -- the end of the year is coming up fast. Wouldn't you feel better about yourself if you added a github sponsorship to balance out your incredible year? :) How does this type of donation compare to a Paypal Monthly Subscription? Is it just a different way of transport, or are there advantages / disadvantages to Paypal? Kind regards Matthias
sponsor NetBSD for 2020 https://github.com/sponsors/NetBSD
Hey -- the end of the year is coming up fast. Wouldn't you feel better about yourself if you added a github sponsorship to balance out your incredible year? :) Do you live in one of these places? Australia Austria Belgium Canada Cyprus Czech Republic Denmark Estonia Finland France Germany Greece Hong Kong SAR Ireland Italy Japan Latvia Lithuania Luxembourg Malta Mexico Netherlands New Zealand Norway Poland Portugal Singapore Slovakia Slovenia Spain Sweden Switzerland United Kingdom United States of America then sign up: https://github.com/sponsors/NetBSD A little while ago we added some very low tiers so it's not a lot of money at all!
