Re: [netmod] Liaison statement to ORAN - v2

[Scott Mansfield]

Thanks Balázs, 

 

Editorial:  The group is call O-RAN Alliance and should be abbreviated O-RAN.

 

So..  suggestions including boiler plate…

 



>From Groups netmod

>From Contact Scott Mansfield

To Group O-RAN Alliance (SDFG, WG1, WG4, WG5, WG9)

To ContactsBrian Daly: brian.k.d...@att.com 
<mailto:brian.k.d...@att.com> ; Xiaofei Xu: xuxiao...@chinamobile.com 
<mailto:xuxiao...@chinamobile.com> ; Paul Smith, ps7...@att.com 
<mailto:ps7...@att.com> ; Jinri Huang, huangji...@chinamobile.com 
<mailto:huangji...@chinamobile.com> ; Anil Umesh ume...@nttdocomo.com 
<mailto:ume...@nttdocomo.com> ; Shankar Venkataraman 
shankar.venkatra...@verizonwireless.com 
<mailto:shankar.venkatra...@verizonwireless.com> ; Mohamad Yassin 
mohamad.yas...@orange.com <mailto:mohamad.yas...@orange.com> ; Kunihiko Teshima 
kunihiko.teshima...@nttdocomo.com <mailto:kunihiko.teshima...@nttdocomo.com> ; 
Elena Myhre elena.my...@ericsson.com <mailto:elena.my...@ericsson.com> ; 
Abdellah Tazi at8...@att.com <mailto:at8...@att.com> ; Dechao Zhang 
zhangdec...@chinamobile.com <mailto:zhangdec...@chinamobile.com> ; Reza 
Vaez-Ghaemi reza.vaezgha...@viavisolutions.com 
<mailto:reza.vaezgha...@viavisolutions.com> 

Cc OPS ad, netmod wg

Response Contactscott.mansfi...@ericsson.com

Technical Contact scott.mansfi...@ericsson.com

Purpose   For information

Attachments  

Body

IETF NETMOD working group requests O-RAN avoid using deviations as part of its 
specification. When O-RAN plans to reuse specifications from other standard 
bodies or industry groups it should not remove or change functionality.  If 
variations are needed compared to a base model, O-RAN should ask the original 
group to include feature statements in the original YANG module.

 

As documented in https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7950#section-7.20.3  “... 
deviations MUST never be part of a published standard, since they are the 
mechanism for learning how implementations vary from the standards.”

As documented in  
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-packages-01#section-5.8.1> 
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-packages-01#section-5.8.1 
the usage of deviations would prevent:

*   Vendors to claim conformance to both O-RAN and 3GPP specifications 
(which are in some cases used as a base for the O-RAN YANG models)
*   Vendors to implement their own deviations for the same YANG schema nodes

 

Note: The problems with deviations exists even if YANG modules are used without 
YANG packages.

 



 

Regards,

-scott.

 

From: netmod  On Behalf Of Balázs Lengyel
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2020 11:04 AM
To: Jan Lindblad (jlindbla) ; Balázs 
Lengyel 
Cc: Robert Petersen ; Jacqueline Beaulac S 
; netmod@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [netmod] Liaison statement to ORAN - v2

 

Hello, 

Based on discussion here is version2 of the proposed liaison text:

 

Liaison text v2:

 

IETF NETMOD working group requests ORAN to avoid using deviations as part of 
its specification. When ORAN plans to reuse specifications from other standard 
bodies or industry groups it should not remove or change functionality.  If 
variations are needed compared to a base model, ORAN should ask the original 
group to include feature statements in the original YANG module.

 

As documented in https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7950#section-7.20.3  “... 
deviations MUST never be part of a published standard, since they are the 
mechanism for learning how implementations vary from the standards.”

As documented in  
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-packages-01#section-5.8.1> 
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-packages-01#section-5.8.1 
the usage of deviations would prevent:

*   Vendors to claim conformance to both ORAN and 3GPP specifications 
(which are in some cases used as a base for the ORAN YANG models)
*   Vendors to implement their own deviations for the same YANG schema nodes
*

Note: The problems with deviations exists even if YANG modules are used without 
using YANG packages.

 

 

Regards Balazs

 

From: netmod mailto:netmod-boun...@ietf.org> > On 
Behalf Of Jan Lindblad (jlindbla)
Sent: 2020. november 19., csütörtök 11:00
To: Balázs Lengyel mailto:balazs.lengyel=40ericsson@dmarc.ietf.org> >
Cc: Robert Petersen mailto:robert.peter...@ericsson.com> >; Jacqueline Beaulac S 
mailto:jacqueline.s.beau...@ericsson.com> 
>; netmod@ietf.org <mailto:netmod@ietf.org> 
Subject: Re: [netmod] Liaison statement to ORAN

 

Balázs, 

 

+1

I think this is an important message to O-RAN, and I know similar ideas have 
been up for discussions in other SDOs as well. I think your proposed way of 
conveying the message is good.  

 

Best Regards,

/jan

 

 

On 18 Nov 2020, at 09:09, Balázs Lengyel 
mailto:balazs.lengyel=40ericsson..

Re: [netmod] Liaison statement to ORAN - v2

[Balázs Lengyel]

Hello, 

Based on discussion here is version2 of the proposed liaison text:

 

Liaison text v2:

 

IETF NETMOD working group requests ORAN to avoid using deviations as part of 
its specification. When ORAN plans to reuse specifications from other standard 
bodies or industry groups it should not remove or change functionality.  If 
variations are needed compared to a base model, ORAN should ask the original 
group to include feature statements in the original YANG module.

 

As documented in https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7950#section-7.20.3  “... 
deviations MUST never be part of a published standard, since they are the 
mechanism for learning how implementations vary from the standards.”

As documented in  
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-packages-01#section-5.8.1> 
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-packages-01#section-5.8.1 
the usage of deviations would prevent:

*   Vendors to claim conformance to both ORAN and 3GPP specifications 
(which are in some cases used as a base for the ORAN YANG models)
*   Vendors to implement their own deviations for the same YANG schema nodes
*

Note: The problems with deviations exists even if YANG modules are used without 
using YANG packages.

 

 

Regards Balazs

 

From: netmod  On Behalf Of Jan Lindblad (jlindbla)
Sent: 2020. november 19., csütörtök 11:00
To: Balázs Lengyel 
Cc: Robert Petersen ; Jacqueline Beaulac S 
; netmod@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [netmod] Liaison statement to ORAN

 

Balázs, 

 

+1

I think this is an important message to O-RAN, and I know similar ideas have 
been up for discussions in other SDOs as well. I think your proposed way of 
conveying the message is good.  

 

Best Regards,

/jan

 





On 18 Nov 2020, at 09:09, Balázs Lengyel 
mailto:balazs.lengyel=40ericsson@dmarc.ietf.org> > wrote:

 

Hello,

In connection to the draft  
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-packages-01> 
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-packages-01 I propose to 
send a liaison statement from IETF Netmod to ORAN.

 

The issue: 3GPP is standardizing a good number of YANG modules as part of the 
3gpp TS 28.541 and 28.623 ( 
<https://protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=de649d27-81ffa5c5-de64ddbc-86073b36ea28-bd22f142f9b85dd6=1=5a78b7c7-b77b-4866-87e7-f206e86f6f2b=https%3A%2F%2Fforge.3gpp.org%2Frep%2Fsa5%2FMnS%2Ftree%2FRel17-draft%2Fyang-models>
 https://forge.3gpp.org/rep/sa5/MnS/tree/Rel17-draft/yang-models). 

ORAN plans to re-use this models, but possibly refine them in some ways. They 
are considering using deviations to do this. 

E.g. change config=true schemas node to config=false. This creates problems as 
documented in  
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-packages-01%23section-5.8.1>
 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-packages-01#section-5.8.1

 

-   Deviations by an SDO (standard defining organization) prevent 
implementations from reporting their own deviations for the same nodes.

-   Deviations by an SDO prevent implementations from conforming to the 
standards specified by both SDOs.

 

To avoid these problems I propose to send the following text to ORAN:

 

“IETF NETMOD working group requests ORAN to avoid using deviations as part of 
its specification. As documented in  
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-packages-01%23section-5.8.1>
 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-packages-01#section-5.8.1 
the usage of deviations would prevent:

*   Vendors to implement their own deviations for the same YANG schema nodes
*   Vendors to claim conformance to both ORAN and 3GPP specifications which 
are in some cases used as a base for the ORAN YANG models

Note: These problems with deviations exists even if YANG modules are used 
without using YANG packages.

Regards Balazs

 

-- 

Balazs LengyelSenior Specialist   
Ericsson Hungary Ltd. 

Mobile: +36-70-330-7909  email:  
<mailto:balazs.leng...@ericsson.com> balazs.leng...@ericsson.com

 

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Re: [netmod] Liaison statement to ORAN

[Jan Lindblad (jlindbla)]

Balázs,

+1
I think this is an important message to O-RAN, and I know similar ideas have 
been up for discussions in other SDOs as well. I think your proposed way of 
conveying the message is good.

Best Regards,
/jan


On 18 Nov 2020, at 09:09, Balázs Lengyel 
mailto:balazs.lengyel=40ericsson@dmarc.ietf.org>>
 wrote:

Hello,
In connection to the draft 
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-packages-01 I propose to 
send a liaison statement from IETF Netmod to ORAN.

The issue: 3GPP is standardizing a good number of YANG modules as part of the 
3gpp TS 28.541 and 28.623 
(https://forge.3gpp.org/rep/sa5/MnS/tree/Rel17-draft/yang-models).
ORAN plans to re-use this models, but possibly refine them in some ways. They 
are considering using deviations to do this.
E.g. change config=true schemas node to config=false. This creates problems as 
documented in 
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-packages-01#section-5.8.1

-   Deviations by an SDO (standard defining organization) prevent 
implementations from reporting their own deviations for the same nodes.

-   Deviations by an SDO prevent implementations from conforming to the 
standards specified by both SDOs.


To avoid these problems I propose to send the following text to ORAN:

“IETF NETMOD working group requests ORAN to avoid using deviations as part of 
its specification. As documented in 
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-packages-01#section-5.8.1
 the usage of deviations would prevent:

  *   Vendors to implement their own deviations for the same YANG schema nodes
  *   Vendors to claim conformance to both ORAN and 3GPP specifications which 
are in some cases used as a base for the ORAN YANG models

Note: These problems with deviations exists even if YANG modules are used 
without using YANG packages.
Regards Balazs

--
Balazs LengyelSenior Specialist   
Ericsson Hungary Ltd.
Mobile: +36-70-330-7909  email: 
balazs.leng...@ericsson.com

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Re: [netmod] Liaison statement to ORAN

[Balázs Lengyel]

Hello Mahesh,

I heard many discussions about this, but I can’t supply you with a specific 
example just now. I will ask if my colleagues working in ORAN can help.

Regards Balazs

 

From: Mahesh Jethanandani  
Sent: 2020. november 18., szerda 19:02
To: Balázs Lengyel 
Cc: netmod@ietf.org; Robert Petersen ; Jacqueline 
Beaulac S 
Subject: Re: [netmod] Liaison statement to ORAN

 

Hi Balazs,

 

Do you have an example of where O-RAN is trying to deviate a 3GPP model? I 
would agree that for O-RAN to deviate a model would be a problem, and that it 
should be left to vendors to decide if they want to deviate the 3GPP model.





On Nov 18, 2020, at 12:09 AM, Balázs Lengyel 
mailto:balazs.lengyel=40ericsson@dmarc.ietf.org> > wrote:

 

Hello,

In connection to the draft  
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-packages-01> 
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-packages-01 I propose to 
send a liaison statement from IETF Netmod to ORAN.

 

The issue: 3GPP is standardizing a good number of YANG modules as part of the 
3gpp TS 28.541 and 28.623 ( 
<https://protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=f08a6b09-af11524a-f08a2b92-861fcb972bfc-d3713e17a0e10674=1=c0b7de7e-d7ca-4671-b5cc-cecfc1b188d5=https%3A%2F%2Fforge.3gpp.org%2Frep%2Fsa5%2FMnS%2Ftree%2FRel17-draft%2Fyang-models>
 https://forge.3gpp.org/rep/sa5/MnS/tree/Rel17-draft/yang-models). 

ORAN plans to re-use this models, but possibly refine them in some ways. They 
are considering using deviations to do this. 

E.g. change config=true schemas node to config=false. This creates problems as 
documented in  
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-packages-01%23section-5.8.1>
 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-packages-01#section-5.8.1

 

-   Deviations by an SDO (standard defining organization) prevent 
implementations from reporting their own deviations for the same nodes.

-   Deviations by an SDO prevent implementations from conforming to the 
standards specified by both SDOs.

 

To avoid these problems I propose to send the following text to ORAN:

 

“IETF NETMOD working group requests ORAN to avoid using deviations as part of 
its specification. As documented in  
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-packages-01%23section-5.8.1>
 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-packages-01#section-5.8.1 
the usage of deviations would prevent:

*   Vendors to implement their own deviations for the same YANG schema nodes
*   Vendors to claim conformance to both ORAN and 3GPP specifications which 
are in some cases used as a base for the ORAN YANG models

Note: These problems with deviations exists even if YANG modules are used 
without using YANG packages.

Regards Balazs

 

-- 

Balazs LengyelSenior Specialist   
Ericsson Hungary Ltd. 

Mobile: +36-70-330-7909  email:  
<mailto:balazs.leng...@ericsson.com> balazs.leng...@ericsson.com

 

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Mahesh Jethanandani

mjethanand...@gmail.com <mailto:mjethanand...@gmail.com> 

 

 

 

 



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Re: [netmod] Liaison statement to ORAN

[Mahesh Jethanandani]

Hi Balazs,

Do you have an example of where O-RAN is trying to deviate a 3GPP model? I 
would agree that for O-RAN to deviate a model would be a problem, and that it 
should be left to vendors to decide if they want to deviate the 3GPP model.

> On Nov 18, 2020, at 12:09 AM, Balázs Lengyel 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> In connection to the draft 
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-packages-01 
>  I propose to 
> send a liaison statement from IETF Netmod to ORAN.
>  
> The issue: 3GPP is standardizing a good number of YANG modules as part of the 
> 3gpp TS 28.541 and 28.623 
> (https://forge.3gpp.org/rep/sa5/MnS/tree/Rel17-draft/yang-models 
> ). 
> ORAN plans to re-use this models, but possibly refine them in some ways. They 
> are considering using deviations to do this. 
> E.g. change config=true schemas node to config=false. This creates problems 
> as documented in 
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-packages-01#section-5.8.1 
> 
>  
> -   Deviations by an SDO (standard defining organization) prevent 
> implementations from reporting their own deviations for the same nodes.
> -   Deviations by an SDO prevent implementations from conforming to the 
> standards specified by both SDOs.
>  
> To avoid these problems I propose to send the following text to ORAN:
>  
> “IETF NETMOD working group requests ORAN to avoid using deviations as part of 
> its specification. As documented in 
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-packages-01#section-5.8.1 
> 
>  the usage of deviations would prevent:
> Vendors to implement their own deviations for the same YANG schema nodes
> Vendors to claim conformance to both ORAN and 3GPP specifications which are 
> in some cases used as a base for the ORAN YANG models
> Note: These problems with deviations exists even if YANG modules are used 
> without using YANG packages.
> Regards Balazs
>  
> -- 
> Balazs LengyelSenior Specialist   
> Ericsson Hungary Ltd. 
> Mobile: +36-70-330-7909  email: balazs.leng...@ericsson.com 
> 
>  
> ___
> netmod mailing list
> netmod@ietf.org 
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod 
> 
Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanand...@gmail.com





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[netmod] Liaison statement to ORAN

[Balázs Lengyel]

Hello,

In connection to the draft
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-packages-01 I propose to
send a liaison statement from IETF Netmod to ORAN.

 

The issue: 3GPP is standardizing a good number of YANG modules as part of
the 3gpp TS 28.541 and 28.623
(https://forge.3gpp.org/rep/sa5/MnS/tree/Rel17-draft/yang-models). 

ORAN plans to re-use this models, but possibly refine them in some ways.
They are considering using deviations to do this. 

E.g. change config=true schemas node to config=false. This creates problems
as documented in
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-packages-01#section-5.8.1
 

 

-   Deviations by an SDO (standard defining organization) prevent
implementations from reporting their own deviations for the same nodes.

-   Deviations by an SDO prevent implementations from conforming to the
standards specified by both SDOs.

 

To avoid these problems I propose to send the following text to ORAN:

 

“IETF NETMOD working group requests ORAN to avoid using deviations as part
of its specification. As documented in
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-packages-01#section-5.8.1
  the usage of deviations would prevent:

*   Vendors to implement their own deviations for the same YANG schema
nodes
*   Vendors to claim conformance to both ORAN and 3GPP specifications
which are in some cases used as a base for the ORAN YANG models

Note: These problems with deviations exists even if YANG modules are used
without using YANG packages.

Regards Balazs

 

-- 

Balazs LengyelSenior Specialist
Ericsson Hungary Ltd. 

Mobile: +36-70-330-7909  email: balazs.leng...@ericsson.com

 



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