Re: [netmod] NETMOD WG Virtual Interim Meeting: 22 February 2016

[Eric Voit (evoit)]

> From: Nadeau Thomas, February 24, 2016 9:20 AM
> 
> > On Feb 23, 2016:6:21 PM, at 6:21 PM, Eric Voit (evoit) 
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Kent,
> >
> > Thanks for running the interim, I agree it was quite useful.
> >
> > One thing I wanted to pull out from the minutes was the overall definition 
> > of
> "Mount". Right now there are 830 web pages on the OpenDaylight site which
> refer to "Mount" in terms of Peer Mount (i.e., something much like 
> draft-clemm-
> netmod-mount).
> >
> > That does not mean that the IETF need define "Mount" the same way as an
> Open Source project.  But it is possible at this stage to create both 
> terminology
> and requirements which breaks down the overall problem space.   In other
> words there is nothing stopping us from defining a set of terms and technology
> solutions which fit together in a complimentary way.  Nothing here need
> conflict.
> 
>   I agree that normalizing the terminology is probably a good thing.  What
> I would caution against is a unilateral definition here as it is likely to be 
> IETF-
> centric; its a good idea to poll the other communities that are using this
> technology.

Makes sense.   Any thoughts on who might represent the meaning of Mount from 
ODL?

Eric

>   —Tom
> 
> 
> > If there is community interest, I would be willing to pull together a 
> > strawman
> requirements/terminology draft describing the differences between mounting
> schemas on a box, mounting a remote datastore.
> >
> > Any interest?
> > Eric
> >
> >> From: netmod, February 22, 2016 3:51 PM
> >>
> >>
> >> Thank you all who joined today’s virtual interim meeting.
> >>
> >> Other than my starting the recording late and rearranging the
> >> presentation order, I thought that the meeting went really well in
> >> that there seems to be a lot of support for trying to solve this
> >> problem, and because we have a plan to try to move towards having a
> >> WG document in the BA timeframe.  The plan is for
> >> draft-bjorklund-netmod-structural-mount to be updated based on the
> meeting and for it to be discussed on list as the basis for the WG effort on 
> the
> topic.
> >>
> >> Attached are the very rough Ethernet minutes captured during the meeting.
> >> Please review carefully.  Corrections can be made on the etherpad here:
> >> http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/netmod-interim-20160222  (so we
> >> can track changes, the end of meeting snapshot is here:
> >> http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/netmod-interim-
> >> 20160222/timeslider#3933)
> >>
> >> To listen to the recording, please follow one of these two links:
> >>
> >>  Streaming recording link:
> >>
> >> https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/ldr.php?RCID=4dc88386f13a49fa8f2c934db953
> >> f4a2
> >>
> >>  Download recording link:
> >>
> >> https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/lsr.php?RCID=1b6490fe5cc6fc95d4e3c9b913df
> >> dc1f
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks again,
> >>
> >> Kent and Lou
> >
> > ___
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> > netmod@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod

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Re: [netmod] NETMOD WG Virtual Interim Meeting: 22 February 2016

[Ladislav Lhotka]

Hi Eric,

I agree with you that it is important to distinuguish the construction of a 
data model schema from mechanisms for combining data trees, and I believe the 
term "mount" is mostly connected to the latter (as in NFS mount). FWIW, the 
YSDL draft doesn't use the term "mount" at all.

I'd suggest to wait for the concrete technical solution of 
structural-mount/YSDL, then it may be easier to figure out an appropriate term.

Lada

> On 24 Feb 2016, at 00:21, Eric Voit (evoit)  wrote:
> 
> Hi Kent,
> 
> Thanks for running the interim, I agree it was quite useful.
> 
> One thing I wanted to pull out from the minutes was the overall definition of 
> "Mount". Right now there are 830 web pages on the OpenDaylight site which 
> refer to "Mount" in terms of Peer Mount (i.e., something much like 
> draft-clemm-netmod-mount).   
> 
> That does not mean that the IETF need define "Mount" the same way as an Open 
> Source project.  But it is possible at this stage to create both terminology 
> and requirements which breaks down the overall problem space.   In other 
> words there is nothing stopping us from defining a set of terms and 
> technology solutions which fit together in a complimentary way.  Nothing here 
> need conflict.
> 
> If there is community interest, I would be willing to pull together a 
> strawman requirements/terminology draft describing the differences between 
> mounting schemas on a box, mounting a remote datastore.
> 
> Any interest?
> Eric 
> 
>> From: netmod, February 22, 2016 3:51 PM
>> 
>> 
>> Thank you all who joined today’s virtual interim meeting.
>> 
>> Other than my starting the recording late and rearranging the presentation 
>> order,
>> I thought that the meeting went really well in that there seems to be a lot 
>> of
>> support for trying to solve this problem, and because we have a plan to try 
>> to
>> move towards having a WG document in the BA timeframe.  The plan is for
>> draft-bjorklund-netmod-structural-mount to be updated based on the meeting
>> and for it to be discussed on list as the basis for the WG effort on the 
>> topic.
>> 
>> Attached are the very rough Ethernet minutes captured during the meeting.
>> Please review carefully.  Corrections can be made on the etherpad here:
>> http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/netmod-interim-20160222  (so we can
>> track changes, the end of meeting snapshot is here:
>> http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/netmod-interim-
>> 20160222/timeslider#3933)
>> 
>> To listen to the recording, please follow one of these two links:
>> 
>>  Streaming recording link:
>> 
>> https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/ldr.php?RCID=4dc88386f13a49fa8f2c934db953f4a2
>> 
>>  Download recording link:
>> 
>> https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/lsr.php?RCID=1b6490fe5cc6fc95d4e3c9b913dfdc1f
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks again,
>> 
>> Kent and Lou
> 

--
Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs
PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C




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Re: [netmod] NETMOD WG Virtual Interim Meeting: 22 February 2016

[Eric Voit (evoit)]

> From: Kent Watsen, February 23, 2016 7:19 PM
> 
> Hi Eric,
> 
> If you have a proposal, please send.  A draft seems overkill to me, but maybe 
> you
> have something in mind?

I have only the beginnings of a division of terminology and function in mind.  
I would put time into this should people care.  More below.

> I’m personally okay to name the schema-mount thing to something that doesn’t
> use the word “mount”, so long as it’s still easy to understand.  Worst case we
> could all switch to using long form (e.g., schema-mount-point, instance-mount-
> point), what do you think?

At IETF 94, there was a proposal for something called Alias Mount.
https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/94/slides/slides-94-netmod-19.pdf
(see slide 6)
Alias mount didn't add a reference to an external box (like peer mount).  It 
included just the subset of configuration needed to reference a locally 
targeted subtree.   There were not provisions to augment the schema with 
additional info.

I can see a reason for schema mount, alias mount, and peer mount.  So without 
thinking too deeply, I believe it should be possible to have the needed 
parameters for WG selected mount variations which could be placed under the 
generalized mount keyword.  

This would seem to be an approach which is extensible, and which allows the 
technology solutions/requirements to be driven in parallel.

Eric


> Kent
> 
> 
> 
> On 2/23/16, 6:21 PM, "Eric Voit (evoit)"  wrote:
> 
> >Hi Kent,
> >
> >Thanks for running the interim, I agree it was quite useful.
> >
> >One thing I wanted to pull out from the minutes was the overall definition of
> "Mount". Right now there are 830 web pages on the OpenDaylight site which
> refer to "Mount" in terms of Peer Mount (i.e., something much like 
> draft-clemm-
> netmod-mount).
> >
> >That does not mean that the IETF need define "Mount" the same way as an
> Open Source project.  But it is possible at this stage to create both 
> terminology
> and requirements which breaks down the overall problem space.   In other
> words there is nothing stopping us from defining a set of terms and technology
> solutions which fit together in a complimentary way.  Nothing here need
> conflict.
> >
> >If there is community interest, I would be willing to pull together a 
> >strawman
> requirements/terminology draft describing the differences between mounting
> schemas on a box, mounting a remote datastore.
> >
> >Any interest?
> >Eric
> >
> >> From: netmod, February 22, 2016 3:51 PM
> >>
> >>
> >> Thank you all who joined today’s virtual interim meeting.
> >>
> >> Other than my starting the recording late and rearranging the
> >> presentation order, I thought that the meeting went really well in
> >> that there seems to be a lot of support for trying to solve this
> >> problem, and because we have a plan to try to move towards having a
> >> WG document in the BA timeframe.  The plan is for
> >> draft-bjorklund-netmod-structural-mount to be updated based on the
> meeting and for it to be discussed on list as the basis for the WG effort on 
> the
> topic.
> >>
> >> Attached are the very rough Ethernet minutes captured during the meeting.
> >> Please review carefully.  Corrections can be made on the etherpad here:
> >> http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/netmod-interim-20160222  (so we
> >> can track changes, the end of meeting snapshot is here:
> >> http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/netmod-interim-
> >> 20160222/timeslider#3933)
> >>
> >> To listen to the recording, please follow one of these two links:
> >>
> >>   Streaming recording link:
> >>
> >> https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/ldr.php?RCID=4dc88386f13a49fa8f2c934db953
> >> f4a2
> >>
> >>   Download recording link:
> >>
> >> https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/lsr.php?RCID=1b6490fe5cc6fc95d4e3c9b913df
> >> dc1f
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks again,
> >>
> >> Kent and Lou
> >
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Re: [netmod] NETMOD WG Virtual Interim Meeting: 22 February 2016

[Eric Voit (evoit)]

Hi Kent,

Thanks for running the interim, I agree it was quite useful.

One thing I wanted to pull out from the minutes was the overall definition of 
"Mount". Right now there are 830 web pages on the OpenDaylight site which 
refer to "Mount" in terms of Peer Mount (i.e., something much like 
draft-clemm-netmod-mount).   

That does not mean that the IETF need define "Mount" the same way as an Open 
Source project.  But it is possible at this stage to create both terminology 
and requirements which breaks down the overall problem space.   In other words 
there is nothing stopping us from defining a set of terms and technology 
solutions which fit together in a complimentary way.  Nothing here need 
conflict.

If there is community interest, I would be willing to pull together a strawman 
requirements/terminology draft describing the differences between mounting 
schemas on a box, mounting a remote datastore.

Any interest?
Eric 

> From: netmod, February 22, 2016 3:51 PM
> 
> 
> Thank you all who joined today’s virtual interim meeting.
> 
> Other than my starting the recording late and rearranging the presentation 
> order,
> I thought that the meeting went really well in that there seems to be a lot of
> support for trying to solve this problem, and because we have a plan to try to
> move towards having a WG document in the BA timeframe.  The plan is for
> draft-bjorklund-netmod-structural-mount to be updated based on the meeting
> and for it to be discussed on list as the basis for the WG effort on the 
> topic.
> 
> Attached are the very rough Ethernet minutes captured during the meeting.
> Please review carefully.  Corrections can be made on the etherpad here:
> http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/netmod-interim-20160222  (so we can
> track changes, the end of meeting snapshot is here:
> http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/netmod-interim-
> 20160222/timeslider#3933)
> 
> To listen to the recording, please follow one of these two links:
> 
>   Streaming recording link:
> 
> https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/ldr.php?RCID=4dc88386f13a49fa8f2c934db953f4a2
> 
>   Download recording link:
> 
> https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/lsr.php?RCID=1b6490fe5cc6fc95d4e3c9b913dfdc1f
> 
> 
> Thanks again,
> 
> Kent and Lou

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Re: [netmod] NETMOD WG Virtual Interim Meeting: 22 February 2016

[Kent Watsen]

Thank you all who joined today’s virtual interim meeting.

Other than my starting the recording late and rearranging the presentation 
order, I thought that the meeting went really well in that there seems to be a 
lot of support for trying to solve this problem, and because we have a plan to 
try to move towards having a WG document in the BA timeframe.  The plan is for 
draft-bjorklund-netmod-structural-mount to be updated based on the meeting and 
for it to be discussed on list as the basis for the WG effort on the topic.

Attached are the very rough Ethernet minutes captured during the meeting.  
Please review carefully.  Corrections can be made on the etherpad here: 
http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/netmod-interim-20160222  (so we can track 
changes, the end of meeting snapshot is here: 
http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/netmod-interim-20160222/timeslider#3933)

To listen to the recording, please follow one of these two links:

  Streaming recording link:
https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/ldr.php?RCID=4dc88386f13a49fa8f2c934db953f4a2

  Download recording link:
https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/lsr.php?RCID=1b6490fe5cc6fc95d4e3c9b913dfdc1f


Thanks again,

Kent and Lou





On 2/22/16, 8:23 AM, "netmod on behalf of Kent Watsen"  wrote:

>
>Friendly reminder, this meeting starts in about 90 minutes.
>
>Cheers,
>Kent
>
>
>
>
>On 2/10/16, 10:46 AM, "netmod on behalf of IESG Secretary" 
> wrote:
>
>>The NETCONF Data Modeling Language (NETMOD) WG will have a virtual 
>>interim meeting on 22 February 2016 at 10:00 EST (15:00 UTC) to discuss 
>>use-cases and solutions for combining YANG modules into the schema 
>>defined in other YANG modules, as this is a blocking item for some other 
>>working groups currently. The agenda for the meeting is:
>>
>>5 min: agenda bashing, scribes, note well, etherpad, etc.
>>20 min: use-case summary (draft-rtgyangdt-rtgwg-device-model-02)
>>20 min: proposal #1 (draft-lhotka-netmod-ysdl-00)
>>20 min: proposal #2 (draft-bjorklund-netmod-structural-mount-00)
>>55 min: general discussion or end early
>>
>>All participants should come prepared to discuss these drafts.
>>
>>Note: it is understood that draft-clemm-netmod-mount is related work, 
>>but the chairs wish to only focus on the schema composition issue at 
>>this time.
>>
>>Etherpad: http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/netmod-interim-20160222
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>NETMOD Chairs
>>
>>--
>>NETMOD Virtual Interim Meeting
>>Monday, February 22, 2016
>>4:00 pm | Europe Time (Berlin, GMT+01:00) | 2 hrs
>>
>>Join WebEx meeting:
>>https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=me171803d3dfe83d3f0d003f8332b032f
>>Meeting number: 646 684 956
>>Meeting password: Qbds3nPZ
>>
>>Join by phone
>>1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada)
>>1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada)
>>Access code: 646 684 956
>>Toll-free calling restrictions
>>
>>Add this meeting to your calendar. (Cannot add from mobile devices.)
>>https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=mf4e7a67f2b45f6542947fa3464d35e05
>>
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>>
>>IMPORTANT NOTICE: Please note that this WebEx service allows audio and 
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>>discoverable in a legal matter. By joining this session, you 
>>automatically consent to such recordings. If you do not consent to being 
>>recorded, discuss your concerns with the host or do not join the 
>>session. 
>>
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[Please add your name to the virtual blue sheet at the end, and notes inline in 
the appropriate Notes block.]

IETF NETMOD Virtual Interim Meeting
Feb 22, 2016

Online Agenda and Slides at: 
https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2016/02/22/netmod/proceedings.html
Data tracker: http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/netmod/
Tools page: http://tools.ietf.org/wg/netmod

Agenda:

   5 min: agenda bashing, scribes, note well, etherpad, etc.
  20 min: use-case summary (draft-rtgyangdt-rtgwg-device-model-02)
  20 min: proposal #1  (draft-lhotka-netmod-ysdl-00)
  20 min: proposal #2  (draft-bjorklund-netmod-structural-mount-00)
  55 min: general discussion or end early

Attendees:

  - Kent Watsen
  Lou Berger
  Christian Hopps
  Einar Nilsen-Nygaard
  Juergen Schönwälder
  Ladislav Lhotka
  Xufeng Liu
  Martin Björklund
  Xian
  Eric Volt
  Vishnu Pavan Beeram
  Acee Lindem
  Gert
  Michael Scharf
  Himanshu Shah
  Ashesh Mishra
  Benoit Claise
  Robert Wilton
  Tarek Saad
  Dan Romanscanu
  Aihua
  Steve Baillargeon
  
  

  
Notes: (please add to the appropriate time block)
  
 Agenda basking by Eric Voit: would like to make sure that the mount 

Re: [netmod] NETMOD WG Virtual Interim Meeting: 22 February 2016

[Kent Watsen]

Friendly reminder, this meeting starts in about 90 minutes.

Cheers,
Kent




On 2/10/16, 10:46 AM, "netmod on behalf of IESG Secretary" 
 wrote:

>The NETCONF Data Modeling Language (NETMOD) WG will have a virtual 
>interim meeting on 22 February 2016 at 10:00 EST (15:00 UTC) to discuss 
>use-cases and solutions for combining YANG modules into the schema 
>defined in other YANG modules, as this is a blocking item for some other 
>working groups currently. The agenda for the meeting is:
>
>5 min: agenda bashing, scribes, note well, etherpad, etc.
>20 min: use-case summary (draft-rtgyangdt-rtgwg-device-model-02)
>20 min: proposal #1 (draft-lhotka-netmod-ysdl-00)
>20 min: proposal #2 (draft-bjorklund-netmod-structural-mount-00)
>55 min: general discussion or end early
>
>All participants should come prepared to discuss these drafts.
>
>Note: it is understood that draft-clemm-netmod-mount is related work, 
>but the chairs wish to only focus on the schema composition issue at 
>this time.
>
>Etherpad: http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/netmod-interim-20160222
>
>Regards,
>
>NETMOD Chairs
>
>--
>NETMOD Virtual Interim Meeting
>Monday, February 22, 2016
>4:00 pm | Europe Time (Berlin, GMT+01:00) | 2 hrs
>
>Join WebEx meeting:
>https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=me171803d3dfe83d3f0d003f8332b032f
>Meeting number: 646 684 956
>Meeting password: Qbds3nPZ
>
>Join by phone
>1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada)
>1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada)
>Access code: 646 684 956
>Toll-free calling restrictions
>
>Add this meeting to your calendar. (Cannot add from mobile devices.)
>https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=mf4e7a67f2b45f6542947fa3464d35e05
>
>Can't join the meeting? Contact support.
>
>IMPORTANT NOTICE: Please note that this WebEx service allows audio and 
>other information sent during the session to be recorded, which may be 
>discoverable in a legal matter. By joining this session, you 
>automatically consent to such recordings. If you do not consent to being 
>recorded, discuss your concerns with the host or do not join the 
>session. 
>
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[netmod] NETMOD WG Virtual Interim Meeting: 22 February 2016

[IESG Secretary]

The NETCONF Data Modeling Language (NETMOD) WG will have a virtual 
interim meeting on 22 February 2016 at 10:00 EST (15:00 UTC) to discuss 
use-cases and solutions for combining YANG modules into the schema 
defined in other YANG modules, as this is a blocking item for some other 
working groups currently. The agenda for the meeting is:

5 min: agenda bashing, scribes, note well, etherpad, etc.
20 min: use-case summary (draft-rtgyangdt-rtgwg-device-model-02)
20 min: proposal #1 (draft-lhotka-netmod-ysdl-00)
20 min: proposal #2 (draft-bjorklund-netmod-structural-mount-00)
55 min: general discussion or end early

All participants should come prepared to discuss these drafts.

Note: it is understood that draft-clemm-netmod-mount is related work, 
but the chairs wish to only focus on the schema composition issue at 
this time.

Etherpad: http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/netmod-interim-20160222

Regards,

NETMOD Chairs

--
NETMOD Virtual Interim Meeting
Monday, February 22, 2016
4:00 pm | Europe Time (Berlin, GMT+01:00) | 2 hrs

Join WebEx meeting:
https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=me171803d3dfe83d3f0d003f8332b032f
Meeting number: 646 684 956
Meeting password: Qbds3nPZ

Join by phone
1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada)
1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada)
Access code: 646 684 956
Toll-free calling restrictions

Add this meeting to your calendar. (Cannot add from mobile devices.)
https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=mf4e7a67f2b45f6542947fa3464d35e05

Can't join the meeting? Contact support.

IMPORTANT NOTICE: Please note that this WebEx service allows audio and 
other information sent during the session to be recorded, which may be 
discoverable in a legal matter. By joining this session, you 
automatically consent to such recordings. If you do not consent to being 
recorded, discuss your concerns with the host or do not join the 
session. 

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