Re: publication of "Jyllands-Posten" cartoons is not... [4x]
Table of Contents: From: miguel leal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Re: publication of "Jyllands-Posten" cartoons is not... From: "Bodo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Re: publication of "Jyllands-Posten" cartoons is not... From: "Jody Berland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Re: publication of "Jyllands-Posten" cartoons is not... From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Re: publication of "Jyllands-Posten" cartoons is not... From: miguel leal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: publication of "Jyllands-Posten" cartoons is not... Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 13:25:08 + To: nettime On Feb 16, 2006, at 6:01 PM, Jody Berland wrote: > For instance, it wasn't just the fact that the cartoon "mocked" > the religion that was the problem; it was that it violated a sacred > prohibition on showing the face of Mohammed. It was thus a direct > assaults > on the freedom to practice that religion. It is too simple just to > say they > can't stand being mocked in cartoons. It is too simple to say it is > all > about freedom. You are right. It's not about freedom of speech, its about stupidity. In 10 years or so we will be laughing on all this. If we are to respect all taboos it would be impossible to exist outside a cave. There are so many interdictions in so many different cultures... Are you prepared to refuse all that allow, only to say it shortly, this simple discussion? best ml From: "Bodo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Subject: publication of "Jyllands-Posten" cartoons is not "freedom of thepress" Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2006 17:58:51 +0100 see this text in context: http://www.niatu.net/transfictiontrek/tom/tom02_06_en.html Trekkie of the Month February 2006: Al-Shihan, Frankfurter Rundschau et al. Surak Price for Logical Conflict Management "There are conflicts, in which you can do many mistakes and hardly any right. The controversy about the cartoons of Mohammed is one of them." With these words, which could also derive from Benjamin Sisko, Stephan Hebel, editor of the newspaper Frankfurter Rundschau, opens his comment on the decision not to reprint the cartoons of the Danish colleagues of Jyllands-Posten.=20 Apart from the Frankfurter Rundschau, other European newspapers, among them Le Figaro from France or Politiken from Denmark realized the freedom of the press within their responsibility for an intercultural Europe and international dialogue. Jihad Momani, chief-editor of the Jordanian weekly Al-Shihan, pursued this intention under reverse indication. He published three of the cartoons to explain his readers the subject of the conflict. Meanwhile Mamoni was sacked because of this decision and arrested for violations of Jordan's press law, which forbids insults against religion. Asked for an answer to all this, Momani points out in an interview: "We have to talk to each other face to face and resolve our problems frankly. What we are seeing here is a conflict between civilizations, West and East. We must put an end to this struggle because it simply isn't good for our future. We have to rebuild these relations and to do something positive to stop what is going on. And we have to start at home." This unexpressed alliance of the sober-minded may throw some illuminating light on the cartoon controversy. What we are seeing here is not so much the often confirmed contrast of sacred freedom of press to the interdiction in Islam to produce an image of the prophet Mohammed in a "clash of civilizations", but right-wing-conservatives and Islamist demagogues, whose enmity is connected by a strong interest in cultural separatism. Against the background of the long and mutual evolutionary history of the two monotheistic religions of Islam and Christianity - alongside Juadism, as the oldest family member - this seems especially absurd or rather it is cast into the right light. Particularly because of these similarities, the cartoon controversy reminds of the conflicts on Vulcan in the decade before the establishment of the United Federation of the Planets. The Syrrannites form only one of the groups questioning the orthodox interpretation of Surak's peace philosophy, the founder of Vulcan civilization, by the governing High Command. The struggles are dominated by bombings and political intrigues, governmental prosecution of dissenters and the stigmatization of heretics. The social inability for balancing cooperation articulates itself on the planet Vulcan in the decade of the 2150 years as well as an ideological conflict, as a question of "right faith". Societies, which are open in relation to different ways of thinking and different ways of life, cannot be established on pure faith and stiff principles. For a successful venture of a world society established on difference and reconciliation, beliefs and principles must be put in relation to current conflicts consistently. Exactly here they must prove whether they still meet the needs of th
Re: cartoons? come on.
Am Sonntag, 19. Februar 2006 um 07:05:32 Uhr (-0800) schrieb coco fusco: > Liberal regimes are also manipulating public opinion, silencing dissent and > using free speech as a way to create an impression of themselves as embattled > by their minorities, hence justifying more control and repression of > immigrants > in Germany, France, Denmark and elsewhere. Over here, the conservative right (which also happens to lead the federal government) cautiously sides with the Muslim protesters, because it has its own agenda against "blasphemy". The "letter to the editor" column of the leading conservative paper "Frankfurter Allgemeine" is filling with statements, from non-Muslim readers, saying that religious believers have been humiliated enough and measures should be taken against tolerating blasphemy. The playwright and leading conservative intellectual Botho Strauss writes how he admires Islamic family values, and that the protests would finally put an end to an era of postmodern anything-goes. The (powerful) Bavarian prime minister and chairman of the conservative CSU party stated that blasphemy should not be tolerated. At the same time, he demands to ban the hugely popular Turkish action movie "In the Valley of the Wolves", a fantasy about Turkish fighters on a revenge mission against the USA in the Middle East. It's not at all that a "liberal state" is raising its voice here, but control and repression of immigrants is continued in conjunction with a revived religious agenda. Note that Germany is, by its constitutional law, not a liberal secular state. It grants various, substantial privileges to religions it officially "recognizes" - which not surprisingly excludes Islam to date. That so-called "concordate" with the Roman Catholic Church and the Lutheran Protestant church was forged by Hitler and has not been revised, except that Jewish congregations were included after 1945. But instead of proposing, like the aforementioned newspaper does, to make Islam part of this system, I would like it to be abolished altogether. > And all those championing the > cartoons take the bait on this - why not give racist and xenophobic > representations of Arabs, foreigners and immrigrants in European media equal > airtime here? I fully agree. > Why not analyze the weird representations of immigrants by the > European left? I agree again. And include the weird representations of Jews in Arab countries, etc.. > And even Germany has some images that no one can play with without getting in > trouble, - swastikas being number one. A law I am very much opposed to. It hasn't changed any old or new Nazi from becoming what he or she is. Neonazi organizations routinely circumvent it by using other Germanic/fascist symbols that aren't outlawed, but look similar. The only effect this law has had are bouncing wedding postcards from India, police raids on independent book and video stores that offered critical documentary books and films on the Third Reich (but sometimes with swastikas on the cover if they weren't made in Germany), and crackdowns on art or music that used the swastika in an ironic and artistic way (such as "The Reich'n Roll" by The Residents). In some areas of Germany, access to Neonazi web sites, but also gore sites like rotten.com, is blocked by the state government. The net artist and activist Alvar Freude made a satirical work where people could call a telephone number and listen to a computer voice reading the pags of those blocked sites. A court sentenced him for "instigating ethnic hatred" and "aiding in the dissemination of unconstitutional propaganda". - Fortunately, the sentence was cancelled by an appellate court. It's not that I would be happy with people waving swastikas in the street, to say the least. But my experience is that any (even well-meaning) attempt to crack down on it using state authority as a tactical tool routinely backfires and hurts the wrong people. > Finally, Cramer will probably never agree on this, but one thing I can say > after spending time in countries where governments are more openly repressive > and religions carry more weight is that some people there and elsewhere just > get offended - really offended - by having American and European insist that > their view of freedom and democracy is the right one and the only one and > universal. Well, I would just say that if there can be routinely anti-European, anti-semitic, anti-Christian caricatures in Arab media, that are no better or worse than those in the Danish newspaper. If noone storms Arab embassies, then it's only fair to expect the same in turn. I fully agree that the Danish newspaper editors are hypocrites, but the people who storm the embassies (or, more, precisely: who triggered the protests) are no better. > Europeans. Even secular muslims I have spoken to find the imposition of > American protocols of democracy in the Middle East to be a form of > imperialism. We don't disagree about that. But w
Re: publication of "Jyllands-Posten" cartoons is not...
via The Washington Post [excerpt]: In Art Museums, Portraits Illuminate A Religious Taboo By Paul Richard Special to The Washington Post Tuesday, February 14, 2006; C01 All depictions of Muhammad -- or so we hear daily -- are now and have always been forbidden in Islam. Art's history disputes this. True, that strict taboo today is honored now by almost all Muslims, but old paintings of the prophet -- finely brushed expensive ones, made carefully and piously by Muslims and for them -- are well known to most curators of Islamic art. There are numerous examples in public institutions in Istanbul, Vienna, Edinburgh, London, Dublin, Los Angeles and New York. Four are here in Washington in the Smithsonian Institution on the Mall. Three are in the Freer Gallery of Art. The fourth is next door in the Freer's sister museum, the Arthur M. Sackler Gallery. These portrayals of Muhammad are not big or new or common. Most were made for the elite. And most were bound in books. These were lavish volumes that were political in purpose, and were designed to celebrate and dignify self-promoting rulers. What their paintings show is this: Once upon a time -- in the era of the caliphs and the sultans and the shahs, when the faithful felt triumphant, and courtly learning blossomed -- the prophet did appear in great Islamic art. Old portrayals of Muhammad come from Sunni lands and Shia ones, from the Turkey of the Ottomans, the India of the Mughals, from Uzbekistan, Afghanistan, Syria and Iran. The oldest that survive were painted circa 1300. The newest were produced about 200 years ago. Three such pictures, from Turkey, Afghanistan and Uzbekistan, are in the collection of the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York. "Contrary to widespread assumptions today," says a statement issued by that museum's Islamic specialists, "the traditional arts of Islam, whether Sunni or Shiite, often did reverently depict the prophet, as abundantly attested by manuscript illuminations ranging in time from the 13th to the 18th century, and in space from Turkey to Bengal. Pictorial representations of the prophet remain accepted by many Shiites to this day, although they have been generally frowned upon by most Sunnis since about the 18th century." "Of course such depictions exist," says Sayyid Syeed, secretary general of the Islamic Society of North America. "What is important to remember is that they were never widely available. Had they been, the common people surely would have resented them. But they were made for powerful dynasties, and no one could take them to task. "Today the consensus is strong. From Morocco to Indonesia, our tradition prohibits such images." Those rough cartoons from Denmark were intended to enrage. They do what they set out to do. Published in a bunch, they disrespect the faith. The paintings of the prophet found in grand museums aren't like that at all. They were once imperial luxuries. The rulers who commissioned them were attempting to ally themselves with God-approved, courageous figures of the past. The paintings of the prophet were not made for walls. They stayed in costly bindings. Sunlight hasn't dimmed them. [read on...] # distributed via : no commercial use without permission # is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: [EMAIL PROTECTED] and "info nettime-l" in the msg body # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@bbs.thing.net
Re: cartoons? come on.
Am Samstag, 18. Februar 2006 um 21:50:45 Uhr (-0800) schrieb Sasha Costanza-Chock: > Can we please shift the conversation from the back and forth of the rights > regime (free speech! freedom of religion! World Leaders Agreed it's > Universal!) to > the reality of empire, war, and occupation that is the real fuel for the > so-called > 'cartoon protests.' It is not the real fuel. The fuel are Middle Eastern regimes that choreographed and coordinated those protests. They were perfect to get their people in line and create an outlet for their political frustration that wouldn't endanger the regimes and the violent suppression of free speech and political freedom in those countries. Besides, Middle Eastern politics cannot be reduced to a simple black-vs.-white, good-vs.-evil scheme with one evil "empire" pulling the strings. (Isn't it remarkable how Negri/Hardt use a concept coined by "Star Wars" and Ronald Reagan?) Conspiciously absent from this debate, for example, are the Iranian threats to Israel and the Holocaust revisionist conference taking place there - only because people in Israel or Western countries don't mass-protest against that, and aren't burning down Iranian embassies? Don't let yourself manipulate by propaganda and intelligence work. It is impossible to burn down an embassy without the local government at (the very) least tolerating it. -F -- http://cramer.plaintext.cc:70 gopher://cramer.plaintext.cc # distributed via : no commercial use without permission # is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: [EMAIL PROTECTED] and "info nettime-l" in the msg body # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@bbs.thing.net
Israeli group announces anti-Semitic cartoons contest!
Well: Israeli group announces anti-Semitic cartoons contest! February 14th, 2006 A Danish paper publishes a cartoon that mocks Muslims. An Iranian paper responds with a Holocaust cartoons contest - - Now a group of Israelis announce their own anti-Semitic cartoons contest! Amitai Sandy (29), graphic artist and publisher of Dimona Comix Publishing, from Tel-Aviv, Israel, has followed the unfolding of the "Muhammad cartoon-gate" events in amazement, until finally he came up with the right answer to all this insanity - and so he announced today the launch of a new anti-Semitic cartoons contest - this time drawn by Jews themselves! "We'll show the world we can do the best, sharpest, most offensive Jew hating cartoons ever published!" said Sandy. "No Iranian will beat us on our home turf!" The contest has been announced today on the www.boomka.org website, and the initiator accept submissions of cartoons, caricatures and short comic strips from people all over the world. The deadline is Sunday March 5, and the best works will be displayed in an Exhibition in Tel-Aviv, Israel. # distributed via : no commercial use without permission # is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: [EMAIL PROTECTED] and "info nettime-l" in the msg body # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@bbs.thing.net
cartoons? come on.
Is this conversation _STILL_ revolving around the inane, ahistorical, simplified meme that this protest wave is actually about free expression / religious respect? OMFG. You'd think from the posts on this thread so far that there was no war and occupation in the region. No permanent military bases. No torture, extrajudicial killings, death squads. No settler state. No military targeting journalists. and on and on and on. Can we please shift the conversation from the back and forth of the rights regime (free speech! freedom of religion! World Leaders Agreed it's Universal!) to the reality of empire, war, and occupation that is the real fuel for the so-called 'cartoon protests.' schock # distributed via : no commercial use without permission # is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: [EMAIL PROTECTED] and "info nettime-l" in the msg body # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@bbs.thing.net
Re: publication of "Jyllands-Posten" cartoons is not...
You are mistaken. It remains perfectly legal, courtesy of the US Supreme Court, to burn an American flag (if you own it) as a form of expression. It may not be advisable, because we have thugs here too, but most likely you would just be denounced. People get arrested for all sorts of legal things, but then, usually, they get let off without being convicted. You don't say what happened to your relatives. It is however illegal to sing in front of a foreign embassy in Washington DC. During the anti-apartheid protests, I was one of many arrested for that in front of the South African embassy. The DC government had already announced we were not going to be prosecuted, however. I was planning to plead innocent, on the much attested grounds that I can't sing. Best, Michael --- Michael H. Goldhaber [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Feb 16, 2006, at 10:01 AM, Jody Berland wrote: > You can't burn an American > flag, for instance, although you can make bikinis out of it. I > have had relatives arrested for burning their own draft card. # distributed via : no commercial use without permission # is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: [EMAIL PROTECTED] and "info nettime-l" in the msg body # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@bbs.thing.net
Re: publication of "Jyllands-Posten" cartoons is not....
>These are political thugs who wrap themselves in the cloak of religion. >First they come for the cartoons, then they come for you. >Robbin Murphy > THE THING, Inc. That's true of "freedom," too. That's exactly my point. Respect for "freedom of speech" on one side, "respect" for religion on the other, thugging away at each other with their unequal armies. Jon Stewart likes to count the number of times Bush uses the word "liberty" in his speeches, and no one accuses him (Stewart, that is) of being a postmodern moral relativist. No one wants to turn back the Enlightenment, but you can't understand it usefully -- or employ its insights -- without acknowledging the history of imperialism and colonialism that then and now have formed its dark side. Jody Berland # distributed via : no commercial use without permission # is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: [EMAIL PROTECTED] and "info nettime-l" in the msg body # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@bbs.thing.net
