Re: nettime Re: Is nettime MEDIA-FASCIST??

2003-06-12 Thread cpaul


On Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:38:29 +0200
Florian Cramer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 There is not one monolithic web-based application which tries to be your
 text editor, E-Mail client and listserver at once, but everyone can work
 locally with the software s/he prefers. For example, I'm typing this on
 a terminal in vim using the mutt mailreader, others might use Eudora, a
 web-based Mailer, and so on. The idea to turn web pages into your
 software applications is very bad in regard to usability and user
 freedom. 

For all these reasons, I suggest not an overarching push towards
a unified web-or-other-interface, but a robust and sustainable raw
feed, which can be utilised and transformed by machines and humans
alike, in a manner of their own choosing.



-cpaul


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Re: nettime Re: Is nettime MEDIA-FASCIST??

2003-06-12 Thread Bill Spornitz
Global emailers;

Talking about *email list moderation* is talking about vanity. It 
could be talking about politics, but it's too far afield, so it's 
not. It's all about the disappointment of the silence of not being 
let into the realm of the distributed. It's the kind of minutae that 
we monkeys cling to like butter here on the sun-baked sidewalk.

But Wait! - Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater! Remember, 
that bathwater is delivered in the same cultural context as email is, 
these days.

Email is the first and the best; blogging is a nice placeholder for 
*next*, but next is coming and you can bet it's going to build on 
email.

Ummm...


Earnest-and-Longwinded-ly
-b

ps - and the moderators are wise enough to read our rantings, 
none-the-weaker, day-by-da shamelesslyshmoozingy...


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Re: nettime Re: Is nettime MEDIA-FASCIST??

2003-06-06 Thread Florian Cramer
Am Donnerstag, 05. Juni 2003 um 09:28:59 Uhr (-0700) schrieb John von Seggern:
 
 The Internet, yes. As for nettime it is looking increasingly 
 old-fashioned to me these days...as numerous posters have pointed out 
 recently, there are many more sophisticated interfaces for online 
 community interaction these days that could address some of the issues 
 the moderation process was originally supposed to solve. Nettime seems 
 to be overly dominated by the particular interests of its moderators and 
 for me it has lost a great deal of its value as a forum. When are we 
 going to move to something new? Is there any desire on the part of this 
 community to keep exploring new communication technologies and network 
 topologies? Or are we going to stay stuck in a mid-90s paradigm of a 
 moderated listserv?

Old-fashioned mailing list technology has important advantages over, for
example, Slashdot-style web-based community platforms:


- Distributed, individual archiving. 

There is not one single server/repository of past contributions, which
is also a single point of failure, but there are individual archives on
subscriber's PCs, many of them being highly personally filtered
selections of what has been posted to a list. (It would be an
interesting project to publish Nettime archives/selection of individual
subscribers.)


- Separation of (local) authoring and (remote) distribution interfaces

There is not one monolithic web-based application which tries to be your
text editor, E-Mail client and listserver at once, but everyone can work
locally with the software s/he prefers. For example, I'm typing this on
a terminal in vim using the mutt mailreader, others might use Eudora, a
web-based Mailer, and so on. The idea to turn web pages into your
software applications is very bad in regard to usability and user
freedom. 

I know of newer weblog software which allows users to post from a local
computer via XML rpc, but I doubt this technology is very accessible yet
for average people.

With local, distributed storage and individual choice of authoring
software, it is also much easier to convert textual information from one
medium into an other, i.e. from a text file to a mailing list
posting and vice versa, and use even individually written software (perl
scripts, shell filters etc.) to accomplish such tasks.


- Social/economical accessibility. 

As monolithic all-in-one applications, Web-based communities force you
to be online for reading and writing contributions, preferably with
broadband flatrate internet access. Mailing lists on the other hand
allow you to read and write contributions offline, and reduce online
time to a few seconds of sending off and receiving E-Mail, which can be
conveniently done even over slow modem connections.

Moreover, through mail server technology, readers don't need to access a
remote web server (which can be slow over intercontinental connections
or in countries with low-speed networking infrastructure), but get and
post contributions from their local provider's mail server.


Needless to point out why all these technical issues are - and always
have been - important political and cultural issues for Nettime as well.

-F

-- 
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