Re: apropos of nothing

[Florian Cramer]

Alexander Bard is a typical example of a "Querfront" activist, and a member
of this right-wing party:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens%27_Coalition

-F

-- 
blog: *https://pod.thing.org/people/13a6057015b90136f896525400cd8561
*
bio:  http://floriancramer.nl


On Sun, Nov 4, 2018 at 12:30 AM Willem van Weelden 
wrote:

> dear angela,
> relax dear.
> it is ok.
> noone is recruiting anyone here.
> chill.
> best,
> w
>
>
> > On 03 Nov 2018, at 23:04, Angela Mitropoulos <
> angela.mitropou...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > What is Nettime's policy on whether or not it should give fascists a
> platform from which to recruit?
> >
> > Angela
> >
> >
> >
> > #  distributed via : no commercial use without permission
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>
> #  distributed via : no commercial use without permission
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>
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Does Nettime have a code of conduct, policies or other governance mechanisms?

[Ana Ulin]

That is a great question, Angela. I, too, would love to know if there are
any policy, code of conduct or other mechanism that governs what is or is
not acceptable in this space.

I've been listening in on Nettime for a few weeks now, trying to decide if
it is a good fit for me. The fact that Willem's intentionally rude and
dismissive response to Angela seems to be welcome here, coupled with all
the airtime that has been given to Mr Best Intentions, suggests that this
space is either wholly ungoverned or that such behavior is explicitly
welcome.

Cheers,
Ana

On Sat, Nov 3, 2018 at 4:21 PM Angela Mitropoulos <
angela.mitropou...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> What is Nettime's policy on whether or not it should give fascists a
> platform from which to recruit?
>
> Angela
>
>
>
> #  distributed via : no commercial use without permission
> #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
> #  collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
> #  more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l
> #  archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org
> #  @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
#  distributed via : no commercial use without permission
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#  collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
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Re: apropos of nothing

[Angela Mitropoulos]

It is a simple and straightforward question that I would like answered. It
makes no inferences about whether recruitment is effective, or even
deliberate rather than aesthetic. But I'm grateful for the evidence you've
furnished, dear, about the way in which women are told to calm down and
shut up, no matter the tone they take, so that those who think women and
black people are less than human and not entitled to take up space can keep
ranting on at length about how everyone other than white guys are less than
human. I mean, I'm grateful that you've illustrated the reason why I asked
this question in the first place. That said, I have no interest in debating
this further.

I simply repeat my question, and would like it answered. Preferably in the
negative. But if in the affirmative, then I would like to suggest that
Nettime be shuttered because any benefit it had for creating a better world
has long past. The world doesn't need a longform version of Gab, or Gab for
that matter.

Angela

On Sun, 4 Nov 2018 at 10:29, Willem van Weelden 
wrote:

> dear angela,
> relax dear.
> it is ok.
> noone is recruiting anyone here.
> chill.
> best,
> w
>
>
> > On 03 Nov 2018, at 23:04, Angela Mitropoulos <
> angela.mitropou...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > What is Nettime's policy on whether or not it should give fascists a
> platform from which to recruit?
> >
> > Angela
> >
> >
> >
> > #  distributed via : no commercial use without permission
> > #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
> > #  collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
> > #  more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l
> > #  archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org
> > #  @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
>
>
#  distributed via : no commercial use without permission
#is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
#  collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
#  more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l
#  archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org
#  @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:

Ash Sarkar video

[Brian Holmes]

Alexander's positions have been thoroughly critiqued from many quarters.
After building on those critiques, Ian has just enumerated his many
reactionary statements. I think it's definitive and I won't engage with him
anymore.

Ari just sent in a video where a brilliant young woman, Ash Sarkar, talks
about the deliberate persecution of black radical socialists after the
1960s, and about the way that leftist social movements were weakened as a
result. She goes on to develop a class analysis which doesn't diss off
intersectionality (that's the main identity politics concept she discusses)
but instead, fills the gaps she sees in present-day politics on the left.
In the middle of it she invokes Angela Davis, a black Marxist feminist who
was not killed in the 1970s and went on, among other things, to help start
the movement against mass incarceration which has been one of the key
forces of change in American life during these last years. The only point
where I might disagree with her is that Angela Davis has certainly not been
forgotten in the US, though maybe in the UK, so in that case, let's
remember a little.

The difference is: talking about specific people and events in the present,
building constructive positions, and covering an amazing amount of ground
in short words.

Check it out if you missed it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nn5_-jA2X18

best, Brian
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Re: Complexity and nostalgia

[Hoofd, I.M. (Ingrid)]

Hi folks,

Lurker here who almost climbed into her pen after many years of silence to 
respond to A.B.s BS and then decided that he's not worth responding too - plus 
others responded so eloquently already (many thanks Alice, Ian, Florian and 
Nina for your excellent remarks!)

On a related and slightly selfish note, I've been looking for some texts that 
discuss the intersection of capitalism/patriarchy/colonialism/racism/technology 
for a reading group of artists/academics. Have read Sylvia Federici's work 
which is good but not quite satisfying. Anyone any suggestions? :-)

Cheers, Ingrid.


Sent from my HTC

- Reply message -
From: "Nina Temporär" 
To: "nettime-l@mail.kein.org" 
Subject:  Complexity and nostalgia
Date: Sun, Nov 4, 2018 00:36




Wow, nettime’s very own James Damore moment -
And hardly anyone calls him out.

I cannot believe how easily so many people here allowed A.B. to 
intellectually-click-bait
them into a discussion just because he whispered the magic words „Marx“ and 
„class“,
And willingly delivered him material to refine his language for his 
pseudo-philosophical
White male ängst-driven project,
Even after he had already lashed out in a dangerously generalized way against 
academia,
After he had already generally denounced identity politics as self-pity and 
whining, after he
Had claimed gender & race as having no social realities, after he had judged 
the welfare
State as an infantilization of society and, on top of all, had totally 
ridiculously indulged himself
In a teenage-like invention rage of cock-culture-worshipping neologisms that he 
obviously enjoys
To decorate his little short-20th-Century binary phantasy land with.

While a few of the answers with serious reactions to the classism question were 
really a
Pleasure to read and very much worth considering under different premises, I 
don’t understand
why almost nobody here (except for Alice, Ian, and Florian - thanks for your 
interventions) did see
The contradiction that the very same people he claims to be wanting to work 
with in that new class
War he dreams of, get insulted so badly and in a hierarchy-reproducing manner, 
that a future
Cooperation is being boycotted before it has even started.

Is that really only a sad lack of strategic thinking? Or not rather revealing 
how inclusive his
New class war phantasy actually is, and whose perspective he expects to be 
adopted as
Conceptual lead?

There is a big difference between disagreement and lashing out in a way that 
reveals absolute
Entitlement, and even worse: the assumption to be „safe“ when stating such 
stuff in a place
Like nettime mailing list.

It’s so tiring to be forced to point out, once more, that entitlement is key in 
this problematic:

While Alexander and his followers have very well understood that investing into 
digital literacy
Is an absolute necessity if they want to survive in these times, any knowledge 
update in relation to
Gender & anti-racism debates is shrugged of as community-specific expertise 
(and commented
With the reproach of having an only self-healing effect) instead of understood 
as the fundamental,
Constitutive (not so new) change of perspective, without which no thorough 
analysis of class
Struggle can withstand.

It was really interesting to read Dan’s report/ analysis of the beginning of 
‚identity politics‘ in the US
(In Europe, I assume, this is a slightly different story) and his 
acknowledgement/ claim that it is his
Generation's own fault not to have passed on the historic context to the next 
generation.
I would really like to engage in this discussion by asking if it is really 
about the lack of history in a
Negative sense, or, if the (assumed) lack of history/ continuity might not be 
expression of a generally
Positive phenomenon: the attitude of a generation being sick of any kind of 
further waiting and gradual
Development, legitimately bold enough to demand full acceptance here and now - 
even if this leads to
A roundhouse-kick-radicality that sometimes feels moralizing and partly unfair 
even to antecedent
activists. (And no, I am not part of that generation and often enough annoyed 
myself, but try to
Understand.)

I’m not keen of discussing it in a context, though, where Alexander Bard can 
blatantly display his near-hatred
Anger on certain minority activism without being sanctioned, just days after a 
shooting in a synagogue and
Lethal threats to critics of Trump, with daily Police brutality towards POC, 
regular attacks on homes for asylum
Seekers in Germany, harassment of anti-Trump academics in the US and similar 
harassments of academics
Criticising right-wing politics now - even structurally organised - by the AfD 
in Germany as well, and ongoing
And normalised discrimination of and assaults on women.
Incitement to violence is a spark easily ignited these days.

Last but not least, I have the impression A.B. never really had to speak up for 
himself against a mainstream
Opinion, otherwise he