Re: Facebook

[Prem Chandavarkar]

About eight and a half months ago I quit Facebook  and  all social  media.  My 
reasons are given here:
https://medium.com/@premckar/a-farewell-to-social-media-33db26074498 


Having said that, I echo the sentiments expressed by many in response to your 
question: namely that Facebook is a highly flawed system, but useful in many 
aspects.  So it must be a platform that must be viewed with a critical 
discernment, and not taken too seriously at times.  I still miss some of the  
benefits people have listed in this thread, but the sum total still made me 
quit.  So as I note at the end of my essay, if it was a farewell, it was a 
restless farewell.

Best,
Prem

> On 03-Nov-2019, at 9:58 PM, Frederic Neyrat  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I'd like to know if some people on this list - be they activists, 
> environmentalists, artists, thinkers, contributors - are (still) on Facebook 
> and if yes, why, being given the extreme noxiousness of this "social" (?) 
> network.
> 
> This article 
> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/nov/03/facebook-politics-republicans-right
>  
> 
> is not the reason of my email, but its occasion.
> 
> Thanks in advance for your light on this matter,
> 
> Frederic Neyrat
> 
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Re: The Watershed in Your Head

[Brian Holmes]

On Sat, Nov 2, 2019 at 10:51 AM John Hopkins  wrote:

> My formal work currently includes being the archivist for, among many other
> items, the maps of now-abandoned coal and metal mines in the state of
> Colorado.
> The state is literally riddled with holes -- somewhere around 25,000
> abandoned
> mines alone, not to mention hundreds of thousands of hydrocarbon and water
> wells. Brian's pipeline mapping project only scratches the surface of such
> manifestations, they are practically fractal, given that anyone using
> natural
> gas has a pipeline right to their house, and so on.


This whole post is a profound response indeed. Thank you John, both for
recognizing what I am doing and for throwing your own parallel efforts into
the mix. That is the best one can hope for in these kinds of exchanges.

You are absolutely right about scratching the surface, and one can also be
rightfully perplexed as to what to do about it - whether to go more deeply
into the subject, or to just immediately stop using more energy in any form.

Perhaps wrongly, I have chose to go deeper into it, such as here:

https://mississippi.rivertoday.org/featured/7597

A general-purpose ecology map of the Mississippi River Delta could
definitely focus on the wetlands (which I try to do) and it could
definitely go into such things as the Gulf of Mexico "dead zone" (which I
do elsewhere in this atlas). This particular map focuses on petrochemical
exploitation. First in the Gulf of Mexico. The slider at bottom left draws
on the kind of official GIS data that John mentions, in order to reveal all
the wellheads and rigs that have been installed in the Gulf since the
fateful year of 1947. A painfully large number, which has recently gone
into decline, at the same time as much deeper wells have appeared. The red
dots mark those where exploitation has  stopped, the wellhead sealed
(hopefully), and the rig either removed or simply blown up and scuttled in
place, as is often sadly the case. The green dots mark rigs that go on
pumping (the majority of those located in deep water are, sadly, newer ones
that do just that). Zooming in a little closer, you can see the underwater
pipelines, again divided into active (black) and junked (gray). Clicking on
any of these features generates yet more details. However it remains
difficult to even imagine how much oil wreckage besmirches the seafloor in
this area; and it would also be necessary to tally the major leaks that
have occurred or are still occurring, just to get some idea of why the Gulf
of Mexico is currently dying.

Now let's look on land, for instance just south of New Orleans. Zooming in
you will see the town of Jean Lafitte, and south of it, a black cluster of
still-active wells. They are located on marshes, but not really, because
the vegetal mat of these marshes could never support such infrastructure.
In almost all cases, a canal has been cut into the marsh, just to install
and service the wells. But you will see that the still-operating black
wellheads are surrounded by a ghostly halo of off-white dots. Each of these
represents an abandoned well, of which there are some 90,000 in Louisiana
all told (oil and gas combined). Those shown are only former oil wells, and
only the ones located in the wetlands zones: click them for a company name,
date and depth. In the area south of Jean Lafitte, a canal has been dug for
each of these too. In some cases, a brown smudge at the edge of the canal
shows the dredge spoil that was piled up on the living marsh. Only
sometimes though, because in most cases, these crisscrossing canals have
let in so much storm surge that what formerly appeared to be land has just
been ripped to shreds by the waves, spoil and all. "Louisiana's
disappearing coastline" (a veritable commonplace in recent journalism) is
due largely to this shredding action, augmented by sea-level rise,
subsidence and a lack of fresh sediment because of the levees that channel
the Mississippi River. Every year, Jean Lafitte floods a little more; and
with every hurricane, it's an emergency situation. The mayor of the little
town keeps finding public and private money to build more and more public
architecture there, in hopes that one day, the town will be valuable enough
for the Army Corps of Engineers to surround it with levees and turn it into
an artificial island. That's not likely to happen. Flooding is. Jean
Lafitte, and most of the Louisiana coast, and the entire planetary ecology
is being eaten alive by the oil and gas industry.

Is it useful to know these things? You will probably say that you already
knew, you have the general picture. But you do not really have any idea,
not in most cases at least (let's except John and others like him). You do
not know enough to really protest these things in aggregate, in their
systemic reality, let alone take any concrete steps to change them at the
aggregate level of the production system. I went out in a small boat in
this general area, south of 

Re: Facebook

[José María Mateos]

On Sun, Nov 03, 2019 at 11:29:27PM +0100, olivier auber wrote:

I'm still on FB to increase #MyFacebookInvoice
Olivier Auber

BTW, I wonder why this campaign got quite a big success in european media
but not a word in US ones...
http://perspective-numerique.net/PDF/MyFacebookInvoice-Press_Release-20180129.pdf


This looks like the "Internet money" that was central to a South Park 
episode: https://southpark.cc.com/clips/165195/meet-the-internet-stars


I think we have more than enough awareness. We can't have more 
awareness. Everybody knows what's Facebook, its limitations and what 
it's terrible at. But that's one thing, and another is making that 
important to every user (or most users).


Cheers,

--
José María (Chema) Mateos || https://rinzewind.org/
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Re: Facebook

[olivier auber]

I'm still on FB to increase #MyFacebookInvoice
Olivier Auber

BTW, I wonder why this campaign got quite a big success in european media
but not a word in US ones...
http://perspective-numerique.net/PDF/MyFacebookInvoice-Press_Release-20180129.pdf




On Sun, Nov 3, 2019 at 10:31 PM Alan Sondheim  wrote:

>
> The loss is more important to me; the community functions as best an
> online community can. I'm connected with all sorts of other networks as
> well such as Furtherfield, ELO, etc. What I find worse and more
> problematic is the university system including publications - I can't
> afford most books that are advertised for example (which is why the
> Alexandria project was so important for me); I go to conferences if I can
> get a stipend, etc. American intellectual life is more of a divide for a
> lot of people than Fb.
>
> (Of course it also depends how intelligently one uses Fb; I put in a lot
> of controls, use blocking, etc.)
>
> - Alan
>
> On Sun, 3 Nov 2019, Frederic Neyrat wrote:
>
> > Thanks Alan! But I've a question, I try to formulate it... Let's say:?
> >
> > 1/ FB enables to create a "community," that's good for sure;?
> > 2/ but in the same time, it destroys?the condition of the possibility of
> > community/togetherness/Gemeinwesen/?tre-ensemble, etc. For instance, in
> making
> > possible the election of people whose main goal is to destroy any
> > community/being-in-common (note that I do not consider being quantified
> and
> > recombined by algorithms a good way to generate some being-in-common).
> >
> > So, in the end, I understand?that something would be lost by leaving FB -
> > hence my first question! - but would it be possible to say that the loss
> is
> > even more important while not quitting FB?
> >
> > My best,
> >
> > FN
> >
> > On Sun, Nov 3, 2019 at 11:14 AM Alan Sondheim 
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >   I'm on it because there are a number of new media
> >   artists/writers/etc.
> >   including myself who form somewhat of a community - it's a way
> >   to
> >   distribute work, especially if one's not in academia or media
> >   industry.
> >   It's brutally flawed but also useful and it gives more scope to
> >   textual
> >   work than Instagram.
> >
> >   Alan
> >
> >   On Sun, 3 Nov 2019, Frederic Neyrat wrote:
> >
> >   > Hi,
> >   >
> >   > I'd like to know if some people on this list - be they
> >   activists,
> >   > environmentalists, artists, thinkers, contributors - are
> >   (still) on Facebook
> >   > and if yes, why, being given the extreme noxiousness of this
> >   "social" (?)
> >   > network.
> >   >
> >   >Thisarticle?
> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/nov/03/facebook-pol
> >   itics-
> >   > republicans-right
> >   > is not the reason of my email, but its occasion.
> >   >
> >   > Thanks in advance for your light on this matter,
> >   >
> >   > Frederic Neyrat
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >
> >   web http://www.alansondheim.org / cell 347-383-8552
> >   current text http://www.alansondheim.org/wm.txt
> >
> >
> >
>
> web http://www.alansondheim.org / cell 347-383-8552
> current text http://www.alansondheim.org/wm.txt
> #  distributed via : no commercial use without permission
> #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
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>
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Re: Facebook / MZ, "trust," and "mythic forces"

[Frederic Neyrat]

Thanks Geoffrey, indeed, illuminating!

Yet I also try to get the other part of it, i.e. the "trust"/belief aspect
that the "Dumb fucks" description cannot grasp at all.
I think I understand who MZ is, no doubt, and that Libra is an antiphrasis.
I also know that MZ doesn't know where his power comes from, but he's able
to use it very well. To know how to use something doesn't mean knowing what
this thing is, knowing for instance - as Walter Benjamin says in his
*Arcades* project, that capitalism is a "reactivation of mythic forces" [K,
391]. Without a redirection of these "mythic forces" (or whatever we call
them), MZ will be powerful *ad vitam aeternam*.

My best,

FN



On Sun, Nov 3, 2019 at 2:17 PM Geoffrey Goodell  wrote:

> P.S. I should have included a link to an article I co-authored about
> Facebook
> Libra:
>
> https://ssrn.com/abstract=3441707
>
> Abstract:
>
> The announcement by Facebook that Libra will "deliver on the promise of
> 'the
> internet of money'" has drawn the attention of the financial world.
> Regulators,
> institutions, and users of financial products have all been prompted to
> react
> and, so far, no one managed to convince the association behind Libra to
> apply
> the brakes or to convince regulators to stop the project altogether. In
> this
> article, we propose that Libra might be best seen not as a financial
> newcomer,
> but as a critical enabler for Facebook to acquire a new source of personal
> data. By working with financial regulators seeking to address concerns with
> money laundering and terrorism, Facebook can position itself for privileged
> access to high-assurance digital identity information. For this reason,
> Libra
> merits the attention of not only financial regulators, but also the state
> actors that are concerned with reputational risks, the rule of law, public
> safety, and national defence.
>
> On Sun, Nov 03, 2019 at 08:13:13PM +, Geoffrey Goodell wrote:
> > This pithy exchange attributed to Mark Zuckerberg [1,2] might illuminate
> the
> > issue:
> >
> > Zuck: Yeah so if you ever need info about anyone at Harvard
> >
> > Zuck: Just ask.
> >
> > Zuck: I have over 4,000 emails, pictures, addresses, SNS
> >
> > [Redacted Friend's Name]: What? How'd you manage that one?
> >
> > Zuck: People just submitted it.
> >
> > Zuck: I don't know why.
> >
> > Zuck: They "trust me"
> >
> > Zuck: Dumb fucks.
> >
> > ---
> >
> > Later, in an interview with David Kirkpatrick [3], Mark Zuckerberg
> proclaimed
> > his view on privacy:
> >
> > "Having two identities for yourself is an example of a lack of
> integrity."
> >
> > I'm inclined to agree with Michael Zimmer's assessment [4]:
> >
> > "Zuckerberg and those who surround him tend to be relentlessly
> forward-looking
> > on privacy: The issue for them is not how to protect users’ current
> sense of
> > privacy but to shape their willingness to share in the future."
> >
> > ---
> >
> > If we imagine that there are some people who stand to benefit from this
> > dystopia we are building, or others who think that they stand to benefit
> > because they have not considered the implications of this new emerging
> morality
> > in which common people are transparent but powerful interests have many
> faces,
> > then we can see how Facebook and its progeny might seem inevitable, or
> even a
> > necessary antidote to the fatigue of the modern world.
> >
> > Enjoy the links, they tell a more complete story than I ever could.
> >
> > Best wishes --
> >
> > Geoff
> >
> > [1] http://www.bitsbook.com/2010/05/mark-z-grow-up/
> >
> > [2]
> https://www.businessinsider.com/well-these-new-zuckerberg-ims-wont-help-facebooks-privacy-problems-2010-5
> >
> > [3] David Kirkpatrick, _The Facebook Effect: The Inside Story of the
> Company
> > That Is Connecting the World_.  Simon & Schuster; First Edition edition
> (June
> > 8, 2010), ISBN-13: 978-1439102114.
> >
> > [4]
> http://www.michaelzimmer.org/2008/11/18/do-you-trust-this-face-gq-on-mark-zuckerberg/
> >
> > On Sun, Nov 03, 2019 at 10:28:01AM -0600, Frederic Neyrat wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I'd like to know if some people on this list - be they activists,
> > > environmentalists, artists, thinkers, contributors - are (still) on
> > > Facebook and if yes, why, being given the extreme noxiousness of this
> > > "social" (?) network.
> > >
> > > This article
> > >
> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/nov/03/facebook-politics-republicans-right
> > > is not the reason of my email, but its occasion.
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance for your light on this matter,
> > >
> > > Frederic Neyrat
> >
> > > #  distributed via : no commercial use without permission
> > > #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
> > > #  collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
> > > #  more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l
> > > #  archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org
> > > #  @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in 

Re: Facebook

[Alan Sondheim]

The loss is more important to me; the community functions as best an 
online community can. I'm connected with all sorts of other networks as 
well such as Furtherfield, ELO, etc. What I find worse and more 
problematic is the university system including publications - I can't 
afford most books that are advertised for example (which is why the 
Alexandria project was so important for me); I go to conferences if I can 
get a stipend, etc. American intellectual life is more of a divide for a 
lot of people than Fb.


(Of course it also depends how intelligently one uses Fb; I put in a lot 
of controls, use blocking, etc.)


- Alan

On Sun, 3 Nov 2019, Frederic Neyrat wrote:


Thanks Alan! But I've a question, I try to formulate it... Let's say:?

1/ FB enables to create a "community," that's good for sure;?
2/ but in the same time, it destroys?the condition of the possibility of
community/togetherness/Gemeinwesen/?tre-ensemble, etc. For instance, in making
possible the election of people whose main goal is to destroy any
community/being-in-common (note that I do not consider being quantified and
recombined by algorithms a good way to generate some being-in-common).

So, in the end, I understand?that something would be lost by leaving FB -
hence my first question! - but would it be possible to say that the loss is
even more important while not quitting FB?

My best,

FN

On Sun, Nov 3, 2019 at 11:14 AM Alan Sondheim  wrote:


  I'm on it because there are a number of new media
  artists/writers/etc.
  including myself who form somewhat of a community - it's a way
  to
  distribute work, especially if one's not in academia or media
  industry.
  It's brutally flawed but also useful and it gives more scope to
  textual
  work than Instagram.

  Alan

  On Sun, 3 Nov 2019, Frederic Neyrat wrote:

  > Hi,
  >
  > I'd like to know if some people on this list - be they
  activists,
  > environmentalists, artists, thinkers, contributors - are
  (still) on Facebook
  > and if yes, why, being given the extreme noxiousness of this
  "social" (?)
  > network.
  >
  
>Thisarticle?https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/nov/03/facebook-pol
  itics-
  > republicans-right
  > is not the reason of my email, but its occasion.
  >
  > Thanks in advance for your light on this matter,
  >
  > Frederic Neyrat
  >
  >
  >

  web http://www.alansondheim.org / cell 347-383-8552
  current text http://www.alansondheim.org/wm.txt





web http://www.alansondheim.org / cell 347-383-8552
current text http://www.alansondheim.org/wm.txt
#  distributed via : no commercial use without permission
#is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
#  collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
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#  @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:

Re: facebook (Frederic Neyrat)

[Renée Lynn Reizman]

I'm on facebook because I have to manage social media for my employer.
Truly the only reason I'm on there!

Renée Reizman


On Sun, Nov 3, 2019 at 11:53 AM  wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
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>1. Facebook (Frederic Neyrat)
>2. Re: Facebook (Jos? Mar?a Mateos)
>3. Re: Facebook (Frederic Neyrat)
>4. Re: Facebook (Alan Sondheim)
>5. Re: Facebook (Frederic Neyrat)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2019 10:28:01 -0600
> From: Frederic Neyrat 
> To: a moderated mailing list for net criticism
> 
> Subject:  Facebook
> Message-ID:
>  qsyykrep9t30xc5dg9yvdur58q-gbwv...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi,
>
> I'd like to know if some people on this list - be they activists,
> environmentalists, artists, thinkers, contributors - are (still) on
> Facebook and if yes, why, being given the extreme noxiousness of this
> "social" (?) network.
>
> This article
>
> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/nov/03/facebook-politics-republicans-right
> is not the reason of my email, but its occasion.
>
> Thanks in advance for your light on this matter,
>
> Frederic Neyrat
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://mx.kein.org/pipermail/nettime-l/attachments/20191103/ecefa2e0/attachment-0001.html
> >
>
> --
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2019 11:48:31 -0500
> From: Jos? Mar?a Mateos 
> To: nettime-l@mail.kein.org
> Subject: Re:  Facebook
> Message-ID: <20191103164831.GF3718@equipaje>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On Sun, Nov 03, 2019 at 10:28:01AM -0600, Frederic Neyrat wrote:
> >Hi,
> >
> >I'd like to know if some people on this list - be they activists,
> >environmentalists, artists, thinkers, contributors - are (still) on
> >Facebook and if yes, why, being given the extreme noxiousness of this
> >"social" (?) network.
>
> I've been off Facebook (see caveats below), but the reasons people
> typically have to stay there are essentially that it provides a useful
> way of communicating with either a close circle of friends and family,
> and to broadcast opinions to the world. And that utility is above all
> other considerations. Is it used to wage psychological warfare on its
> users? Sure, but of course it doesn't affect them, only other people.
>
> As I said, I don't have a Facebook account anymore, but keep close
> contact with said friends and family using WhatsApp groups, which
> belongs to Facebook, am I then out of Facebook entirely? I don't think
> so. Would I like to use a different system/app/protocol/whatever?
> Definitely, but I can't force everybody else to move; we're basically
> stuck there due to the network effect.
>
> I am now the weird friend that from time to time shoots an e-mail; I'm
> glad to say that it works, and that people tend to take it more
> seriously than a Facebook message. As for broadcasting, I  use a blog.
> Do people read it? Barely, but at least what I post there is published
> under my rules.
>
> Cheers,
>
> --
> Jos? Mar?a (Chema) Mateos || https://rinzewind.org/
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2019 11:06:29 -0600
> From: Frederic Neyrat 
> To: Jos? Mar?a Mateos 
> Cc: a moderated mailing list for net criticism
> 
> Subject: Re:  Facebook
> Message-ID:
>  3x62mfot...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Thanks for your answer!
>
> My best,
>
> FN
>
> On Sun, Nov 3, 2019 at 10:49 AM Jos? Mar?a Mateos 
> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, Nov 03, 2019 at 10:28:01AM -0600, Frederic Neyrat wrote:
> > >Hi,
> > >
> > >I'd like to know if some people on this list - be they activists,
> > >environmentalists, artists, thinkers, contributors - are (still) on
> > >Facebook and if yes, why, being given the extreme noxiousness of this
> > >"social" (?) netwo

Re: Facebook

[Geoffrey Goodell]

P.S. I should have included a link to an article I co-authored about Facebook
Libra:

https://ssrn.com/abstract=3441707

Abstract:

The announcement by Facebook that Libra will "deliver on the promise of 'the
internet of money'" has drawn the attention of the financial world. Regulators,
institutions, and users of financial products have all been prompted to react
and, so far, no one managed to convince the association behind Libra to apply
the brakes or to convince regulators to stop the project altogether. In this
article, we propose that Libra might be best seen not as a financial newcomer,
but as a critical enabler for Facebook to acquire a new source of personal
data. By working with financial regulators seeking to address concerns with
money laundering and terrorism, Facebook can position itself for privileged
access to high-assurance digital identity information. For this reason, Libra
merits the attention of not only financial regulators, but also the state
actors that are concerned with reputational risks, the rule of law, public
safety, and national defence. 

On Sun, Nov 03, 2019 at 08:13:13PM +, Geoffrey Goodell wrote:
> This pithy exchange attributed to Mark Zuckerberg [1,2] might illuminate the
> issue:
> 
> Zuck: Yeah so if you ever need info about anyone at Harvard
> 
> Zuck: Just ask.
> 
> Zuck: I have over 4,000 emails, pictures, addresses, SNS
> 
> [Redacted Friend's Name]: What? How'd you manage that one?
> 
> Zuck: People just submitted it.
> 
> Zuck: I don't know why.
> 
> Zuck: They "trust me"
> 
> Zuck: Dumb fucks.
> 
> ---
> 
> Later, in an interview with David Kirkpatrick [3], Mark Zuckerberg proclaimed
> his view on privacy:
> 
> "Having two identities for yourself is an example of a lack of integrity."
> 
> I'm inclined to agree with Michael Zimmer's assessment [4]:
> 
> "Zuckerberg and those who surround him tend to be relentlessly forward-looking
> on privacy: The issue for them is not how to protect users??? current sense of
> privacy but to shape their willingness to share in the future."
> 
> ---
> 
> If we imagine that there are some people who stand to benefit from this
> dystopia we are building, or others who think that they stand to benefit
> because they have not considered the implications of this new emerging 
> morality
> in which common people are transparent but powerful interests have many faces,
> then we can see how Facebook and its progeny might seem inevitable, or even a
> necessary antidote to the fatigue of the modern world.
> 
> Enjoy the links, they tell a more complete story than I ever could.
> 
> Best wishes --
> 
> Geoff
> 
> [1] http://www.bitsbook.com/2010/05/mark-z-grow-up/
> 
> [2] 
> https://www.businessinsider.com/well-these-new-zuckerberg-ims-wont-help-facebooks-privacy-problems-2010-5
> 
> [3] David Kirkpatrick, _The Facebook Effect: The Inside Story of the Company
> That Is Connecting the World_.  Simon & Schuster; First Edition edition (June
> 8, 2010), ISBN-13: 978-1439102114.
> 
> [4] 
> http://www.michaelzimmer.org/2008/11/18/do-you-trust-this-face-gq-on-mark-zuckerberg/
> 
> On Sun, Nov 03, 2019 at 10:28:01AM -0600, Frederic Neyrat wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I'd like to know if some people on this list - be they activists,
> > environmentalists, artists, thinkers, contributors - are (still) on
> > Facebook and if yes, why, being given the extreme noxiousness of this
> > "social" (?) network.
> > 
> > This article
> > https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/nov/03/facebook-politics-republicans-right
> > is not the reason of my email, but its occasion.
> > 
> > Thanks in advance for your light on this matter,
> > 
> > Frederic Neyrat
> 
> > #  distributed via : no commercial use without permission
> > #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
> > #  collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
> > #  more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l
> > #  archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org
> > #  @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
> 
#  distributed via : no commercial use without permission
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#  @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:

Re: Facebook

[Geoffrey Goodell]

This pithy exchange attributed to Mark Zuckerberg [1,2] might illuminate the
issue:

Zuck: Yeah so if you ever need info about anyone at Harvard

Zuck: Just ask.

Zuck: I have over 4,000 emails, pictures, addresses, SNS

[Redacted Friend's Name]: What? How'd you manage that one?

Zuck: People just submitted it.

Zuck: I don't know why.

Zuck: They "trust me"

Zuck: Dumb fucks.

---

Later, in an interview with David Kirkpatrick [3], Mark Zuckerberg proclaimed
his view on privacy:

"Having two identities for yourself is an example of a lack of integrity."

I'm inclined to agree with Michael Zimmer's assessment [4]:

"Zuckerberg and those who surround him tend to be relentlessly forward-looking
on privacy: The issue for them is not how to protect users??? current sense of
privacy but to shape their willingness to share in the future."

---

If we imagine that there are some people who stand to benefit from this
dystopia we are building, or others who think that they stand to benefit
because they have not considered the implications of this new emerging morality
in which common people are transparent but powerful interests have many faces,
then we can see how Facebook and its progeny might seem inevitable, or even a
necessary antidote to the fatigue of the modern world.

Enjoy the links, they tell a more complete story than I ever could.

Best wishes --

Geoff

[1] http://www.bitsbook.com/2010/05/mark-z-grow-up/

[2] 
https://www.businessinsider.com/well-these-new-zuckerberg-ims-wont-help-facebooks-privacy-problems-2010-5

[3] David Kirkpatrick, _The Facebook Effect: The Inside Story of the Company
That Is Connecting the World_.  Simon & Schuster; First Edition edition (June
8, 2010), ISBN-13: 978-1439102114.

[4] 
http://www.michaelzimmer.org/2008/11/18/do-you-trust-this-face-gq-on-mark-zuckerberg/

On Sun, Nov 03, 2019 at 10:28:01AM -0600, Frederic Neyrat wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'd like to know if some people on this list - be they activists,
> environmentalists, artists, thinkers, contributors - are (still) on
> Facebook and if yes, why, being given the extreme noxiousness of this
> "social" (?) network.
> 
> This article
> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/nov/03/facebook-politics-republicans-right
> is not the reason of my email, but its occasion.
> 
> Thanks in advance for your light on this matter,
> 
> Frederic Neyrat

> #  distributed via : no commercial use without permission
> #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
> #  collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
> #  more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l
> #  archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org
> #  @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:

#  distributed via : no commercial use without permission
#is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
#  collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
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#  @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:

Re: Facebook

[Frederic Neyrat]

thanks! Sorry, i don't' get it:

social media is too vast to accurately
assess.

but to assess - what?

my best,

fn

On Sun, Nov 3, 2019 at 12:22 PM { brad brace }  wrote:

>
> [my posts to nettime don't get circulated unless there's a
> note like this one]
>
> To be brief: I'd say social media is too vast to accurately
> assess.
>
> /:b
>
>
> On Sun, 3 Nov 2019, Frederic Neyrat wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'd like to know if some people on this list - be they activists,
> > environmentalists, artists, thinkers, contributors - are (still) on
> > Facebook and if yes, why, being given the extreme noxiousness of this
> > "social" (?) network.
> >
> > This article
> >
> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/nov/03/facebook-politics-republicans-right
> > is not the reason of my email, but its occasion.
> >
> > Thanks in advance for your light on this matter,
> >
> > Frederic Neyrat
> >
>
#  distributed via : no commercial use without permission
#is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
#  collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
#  more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l
#  archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org
#  @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:

Re: Facebook

[Frederic Neyrat]

Thanks Alan! But I've a question, I try to formulate it... Let's say:

1/ FB enables to create a "community," that's good for sure;
2/ but in the same time, it destroys the condition of the possibility of
community/togetherness/Gemeinwesen/être-ensemble, etc. For instance, in
making possible the election of people whose main goal is to destroy any
community/being-in-common (note that I do not consider being quantified and
recombined by algorithms a good way to generate some being-in-common).

So, in the end, I understand that something would be lost by leaving FB -
hence my first question! - but would it be possible to say that the loss is
even more important while not quitting FB?

My best,

FN

On Sun, Nov 3, 2019 at 11:14 AM Alan Sondheim  wrote:

>
>
> I'm on it because there are a number of new media artists/writers/etc.
> including myself who form somewhat of a community - it's a way to
> distribute work, especially if one's not in academia or media industry.
> It's brutally flawed but also useful and it gives more scope to textual
> work than Instagram.
>
> Alan
>
> On Sun, 3 Nov 2019, Frederic Neyrat wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'd like to know if some people on this list - be they activists,
> > environmentalists, artists, thinkers, contributors - are (still) on
> Facebook
> > and if yes, why, being given the extreme noxiousness of this "social" (?)
> > network.
> >
> > Thisarticle?
> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/nov/03/facebook-politics-
> > republicans-right
> > is not the reason of my email, but its occasion.
> >
> > Thanks in advance for your light on this matter,
> >
> > Frederic Neyrat
> >
> >
> >
>
> web http://www.alansondheim.org / cell 347-383-8552
> current text http://www.alansondheim.org/wm.txt
>
#  distributed via : no commercial use without permission
#is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
#  collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
#  more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l
#  archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org
#  @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:

Re: Facebook

[Alan Sondheim]

I'm on it because there are a number of new media artists/writers/etc. 
including myself who form somewhat of a community - it's a way to 
distribute work, especially if one's not in academia or media industry.
It's brutally flawed but also useful and it gives more scope to textual 
work than Instagram.


Alan

On Sun, 3 Nov 2019, Frederic Neyrat wrote:


Hi,

I'd like to know if some people on this list - be they activists,
environmentalists, artists, thinkers, contributors - are (still) on Facebook
and if yes, why, being given the extreme noxiousness of this "social" (?)
network.

Thisarticle?https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/nov/03/facebook-politics-
republicans-right
is not the reason of my email, but its occasion.

Thanks in advance for your light on this matter,

Frederic Neyrat





web http://www.alansondheim.org / cell 347-383-8552
current text http://www.alansondheim.org/wm.txt
#  distributed via : no commercial use without permission
#is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
#  collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
#  more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l
#  archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org
#  @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:

Re: Facebook

[Frederic Neyrat]

Thanks for your answer!

My best,

FN

On Sun, Nov 3, 2019 at 10:49 AM José María Mateos 
wrote:

> On Sun, Nov 03, 2019 at 10:28:01AM -0600, Frederic Neyrat wrote:
> >Hi,
> >
> >I'd like to know if some people on this list - be they activists,
> >environmentalists, artists, thinkers, contributors - are (still) on
> >Facebook and if yes, why, being given the extreme noxiousness of this
> >"social" (?) network.
>
> I've been off Facebook (see caveats below), but the reasons people
> typically have to stay there are essentially that it provides a useful
> way of communicating with either a close circle of friends and family,
> and to broadcast opinions to the world. And that utility is above all
> other considerations. Is it used to wage psychological warfare on its
> users? Sure, but of course it doesn't affect them, only other people.
>
> As I said, I don't have a Facebook account anymore, but keep close
> contact with said friends and family using WhatsApp groups, which
> belongs to Facebook, am I then out of Facebook entirely? I don't think
> so. Would I like to use a different system/app/protocol/whatever?
> Definitely, but I can't force everybody else to move; we're basically
> stuck there due to the network effect.
>
> I am now the weird friend that from time to time shoots an e-mail; I'm
> glad to say that it works, and that people tend to take it more
> seriously than a Facebook message. As for broadcasting, I  use a blog.
> Do people read it? Barely, but at least what I post there is published
> under my rules.
>
> Cheers,
>
> --
> José María (Chema) Mateos || https://rinzewind.org/
> #  distributed via : no commercial use without permission
> #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
> #  collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
> #  more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l
> #  archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org
> #  @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
>
#  distributed via : no commercial use without permission
#is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
#  collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
#  more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l
#  archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org
#  @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:

Re: Facebook

[José María Mateos]

On Sun, Nov 03, 2019 at 10:28:01AM -0600, Frederic Neyrat wrote:

Hi,

I'd like to know if some people on this list - be they activists,
environmentalists, artists, thinkers, contributors - are (still) on
Facebook and if yes, why, being given the extreme noxiousness of this
"social" (?) network.


I've been off Facebook (see caveats below), but the reasons people 
typically have to stay there are essentially that it provides a useful 
way of communicating with either a close circle of friends and family, 
and to broadcast opinions to the world. And that utility is above all 
other considerations. Is it used to wage psychological warfare on its 
users? Sure, but of course it doesn't affect them, only other people.


As I said, I don't have a Facebook account anymore, but keep close 
contact with said friends and family using WhatsApp groups, which 
belongs to Facebook, am I then out of Facebook entirely? I don't think 
so. Would I like to use a different system/app/protocol/whatever? 
Definitely, but I can't force everybody else to move; we're basically 
stuck there due to the network effect. 

I am now the weird friend that from time to time shoots an e-mail; I'm 
glad to say that it works, and that people tend to take it more 
seriously than a Facebook message. As for broadcasting, I  use a blog. 
Do people read it? Barely, but at least what I post there is published 
under my rules.


Cheers,

--
José María (Chema) Mateos || https://rinzewind.org/
#  distributed via : no commercial use without permission
#is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
#  collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
#  more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l
#  archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org
#  @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:

Facebook

[Frederic Neyrat]

Hi,

I'd like to know if some people on this list - be they activists,
environmentalists, artists, thinkers, contributors - are (still) on
Facebook and if yes, why, being given the extreme noxiousness of this
"social" (?) network.

This article
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/nov/03/facebook-politics-republicans-right
is not the reason of my email, but its occasion.

Thanks in advance for your light on this matter,

Frederic Neyrat
#  distributed via : no commercial use without permission
#is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
#  collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
#  more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l
#  archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org
#  @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: