taking sides
Dear Nettime/rs I have also been lurking throughout this infuriating conversation that became increasingly self-indulgent and irrelevant and down the rabbit hole of leftist jargon, name dropping and other forma of grandstanding. To put it another way the discussion devolved rapidly and densely into a white-male pissing contest; whether Bard was the fault line or other more latent issues is something to ponder over time. However, class and identity are real and persistent issues not because they can be debated and discussed on a digital forum but rather because they are real world political issues intrinsic to organizational struggles that affect the power struggles swirling through our various societies; discussions about class and race and identity and sexual politics that become so divorced from day-to-day struggles and on-going political processes are more than just self-indulgent - they obstruct (purposefully or not) and impede meaningful discourse; facilitate forms of false consciousness that bury us within the name-calling syndrome common to mass-mediated discourse. have a good evening allan # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
Re: Taking sides
One can say gender and identity are de facto markers of disenfranchisement and hence of class. It is the understanding of “class” which needs deeper analysis. And it is the undoing of hierarchies of gender and identity within class struggle which might make possible future advances. On Nov 6, 2018, at 8:24 AM, Alice Yang wrote: >> These two young women do they exactly what I have been asking for, they put >> class first and identities second and thereby arrive at a Marxist analysis >> of contemporary society from which we can build a proper left for the future. > > God! Asking women to put a gender and race neutral class first and “identity” > second is asking them to support masculinity over themselves! > > I also support removing or banning Alexander Bard from the list. > > Alice > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Nov 6, 2018, at 6:50 AM, David Garcia >> wrote: >> >> Yes please. This tiny splinter of the community says. >> Bard just stop. >> >> David >> >>> On 6 Nov 2018, at 04:30, Lunenfeld, Peter B. >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hello All - >>> >>> Bard asked if the community wanted him to cease and desist. My >>> vote is yes. Not only are his politics abhorrent, he’s not here to engage >>> in dialogue at all, from what I gleaned from his shit-postings. He’s just a >>> typist with a broadband connection and a Tourette twitch that compels him >>> to type “Marxist” and “Rousseauvian” every 45th and 48th word. Fuck his >>> Charlottesville nazi-coddling and fuck him. >>> >>> Kudos, Ted - >>> >>> Peter >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> On Nov 5, 2018, at 7:08 PM, tbyfield wrote: On 6 Nov 2018, at 3:50, Ryan Griffis wrote: >> I take neither side at Charlottesville > > Need anyone say more? Nope. 'Charlottesville' was a neo-nazi riot in which a person was murdered. That's a good reason to take a side — against neo-nazis. To not take a side is, in effect, to condone that murder. I think it's reasonable to say that condoning murders, however indirectly, crosses a clear line on this list. For that reason, I just flipped the mod switch on Bard: his messages will be held for review. He's given us a lot to think about lately, so reviewing new ones won't be a high priority. This decision is mine alone — I haven't talked with Felix about it. Comments and criticisms are warmly welcome. Cheers, Ted # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: >>> # distributed via : no commercial use without permission >>> #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, >>> # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets >>> # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l >>> # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org >>> # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: >> >> # distributed via : no commercial use without permission >> #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, >> # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets >> # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l >> # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org >> # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: > # distributed via : no commercial use without permission > #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l > # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org > # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
Re: Taking sides
> These two young women do they exactly what I have been asking for, they put > class first and identities second and thereby arrive at a Marxist analysis of > contemporary society from which we can build a proper left for the future. God! Asking women to put a gender and race neutral class first and “identity” second is asking them to support masculinity over themselves! I also support removing or banning Alexander Bard from the list. Alice Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 6, 2018, at 6:50 AM, David Garcia > wrote: > > Yes please. This tiny splinter of the community says. > Bard just stop. > > David > >> On 6 Nov 2018, at 04:30, Lunenfeld, Peter B. wrote: >> >> Hello All - >> >> Bard asked if the community wanted him to cease and desist. My >> vote is yes. Not only are his politics abhorrent, he’s not here to engage in >> dialogue at all, from what I gleaned from his shit-postings. He’s just a >> typist with a broadband connection and a Tourette twitch that compels him to >> type “Marxist” and “Rousseauvian” every 45th and 48th word. Fuck his >> Charlottesville nazi-coddling and fuck him. >> >> Kudos, Ted - >> >> Peter >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Nov 5, 2018, at 7:08 PM, tbyfield wrote: >>> >>> On 6 Nov 2018, at 3:50, Ryan Griffis wrote: >>> > I take neither side at Charlottesville Need anyone say more? >>> >>> Nope. 'Charlottesville' was a neo-nazi riot in which a person was murdered. >>> That's a good reason to take a side — against neo-nazis. To not take a side >>> is, in effect, to condone that murder. I think it's reasonable to say that >>> condoning murders, however indirectly, crosses a clear line on this list. >>> For that reason, I just flipped the mod switch on Bard: his messages will >>> be held for review. He's given us a lot to think about lately, so reviewing >>> new ones won't be a high priority. >>> >>> This decision is mine alone — I haven't talked with Felix about it. >>> >>> Comments and criticisms are warmly welcome. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Ted >>> # distributed via : no commercial use without permission >>> #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, >>> # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets >>> # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l >>> # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org >>> # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: >> # distributed via : no commercial use without permission >> #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, >> # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets >> # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l >> # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org >> # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: > > # distributed via : no commercial use without permission > #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l > # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org > # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
Re: Taking sides
Yes please. This tiny splinter of the community says. Bard just stop. David On 6 Nov 2018, at 04:30, Lunenfeld, Peter B. wrote: > Hello All - > > Bard asked if the community wanted him to cease and desist. My vote > is yes. Not only are his politics abhorrent, he’s not here to engage in > dialogue at all, from what I gleaned from his shit-postings. He’s just a > typist with a broadband connection and a Tourette twitch that compels him to > type “Marxist” and “Rousseauvian” every 45th and 48th word. Fuck his > Charlottesville nazi-coddling and fuck him. > > Kudos, Ted - > > Peter > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Nov 5, 2018, at 7:08 PM, tbyfield wrote: >> >> On 6 Nov 2018, at 3:50, Ryan Griffis wrote: >> I take neither side at Charlottesville >>> >>> Need anyone say more? >> >> Nope. 'Charlottesville' was a neo-nazi riot in which a person was murdered. >> That's a good reason to take a side — against neo-nazis. To not take a side >> is, in effect, to condone that murder. I think it's reasonable to say that >> condoning murders, however indirectly, crosses a clear line on this list. >> For that reason, I just flipped the mod switch on Bard: his messages will be >> held for review. He's given us a lot to think about lately, so reviewing new >> ones won't be a high priority. >> >> This decision is mine alone — I haven't talked with Felix about it. >> >> Comments and criticisms are warmly welcome. >> >> Cheers, >> Ted >> # distributed via : no commercial use without permission >> #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, >> # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets >> # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l >> # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org >> # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: > # distributed via : no commercial use without permission > #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l > # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org > # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
Re: Taking sides
Hello All - Bard asked if the community wanted him to cease and desist. My vote is yes. Not only are his politics abhorrent, he’s not here to engage in dialogue at all, from what I gleaned from his shit-postings. He’s just a typist with a broadband connection and a Tourette twitch that compels him to type “Marxist” and “Rousseauvian” every 45th and 48th word. Fuck his Charlottesville nazi-coddling and fuck him. Kudos, Ted - Peter Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 5, 2018, at 7:08 PM, tbyfield wrote: > > On 6 Nov 2018, at 3:50, Ryan Griffis wrote: > >>> I take neither side at Charlottesville >> >> Need anyone say more? > > Nope. 'Charlottesville' was a neo-nazi riot in which a person was murdered. > That's a good reason to take a side — against neo-nazis. To not take a side > is, in effect, to condone that murder. I think it's reasonable to say that > condoning murders, however indirectly, crosses a clear line on this list. For > that reason, I just flipped the mod switch on Bard: his messages will be held > for review. He's given us a lot to think about lately, so reviewing new ones > won't be a high priority. > > This decision is mine alone — I haven't talked with Felix about it. > > Comments and criticisms are warmly welcome. > > Cheers, > Ted > # distributed via : no commercial use without permission > #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l > # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org > # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
Re: Taking sides
On 6 Nov 2018, at 3:50, Ryan Griffis wrote: I take neither side at Charlottesville Need anyone say more? Nope. 'Charlottesville' was a neo-nazi riot in which a person was murdered. That's a good reason to take a side — against neo-nazis. To not take a side is, in effect, to condone that murder. I think it's reasonable to say that condoning murders, however indirectly, crosses a clear line on this list. For that reason, I just flipped the mod switch on Bard: his messages will be held for review. He's given us a lot to think about lately, so reviewing new ones won't be a high priority. This decision is mine alone — I haven't talked with Felix about it. Comments and criticisms are warmly welcome. Cheers, Ted # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
Taking sides
> > I take neither side at Charlottesville Need anyone say more? As we in the US have been saying for years about the Republican party's turn to explicit and open authoritarianism, believe people when they tell you who they are. In my experience, real pragmatism follows action and results. The people moving the Left forward in the US are overwhelmingly POC women and queer organizers. Many of them are trained and educated in political Marxism, as well as cultural and political organizing through institutions like Highlander, the Boggs Center, The Allied Media Conference, etc. They have developed very sophisticated responses to inter-movement/inter-community forms of conflict resolution that avoid the use of state intervention. They have done amazing cross-movement organizing that includes labor, indigenous nations, people who have been incarcerated, etc. They seem perfectly able to find strength in the recognition of intersectional forms of oppression and then take them on without saying, "No, but this philosophy is the one we should stick to!" People trying to convince me that these folks' life experiences aren't meaningful to the political struggle I see all around me, while labeling them with the name of a dead European philosopher, just sound irrelevant at best. I'm not really looking to continue this "debate," but wanted to add my voice to those saying what seems pretty obvious. Best, Ryan # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
