Re: Latin as revolutionary act? (Morlock Elloi)
On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 08:46:45PM +0100, Joseph Rabie wrote: > Or perhaps we just cease speaking Morlock or Eloi. > > Joe. I am not sure if I am reading you correctly and I am not quite sure what people have against Morlock - albeit I suspect he (he?) stepped on my toes lightly in the past, but not hard enough to remember what was it, exactly. I am subscribed to few other lists and Morlock is not really that bad, trust me. Perhaps it is a problem with consistency. Not very long ago there was a lament about how this list lacks a "different opinion". It is possible I understand a word "different" differently, but as long as I want a different opinion, I need to be prepared for reading from people whose ideals are different than mine, and this is how I understand "consistency", in this context. Say what is this thing that you need and when it comes to you, do not whim. To give you some example, I myself do not have big faith in socialism (contrary to some posters here). At the same time, I do not have big faith in capitalism, either (in case I would be called "rightist" by some 0-1 types). However, I find reading opinions of people who actually believe in those things to be rather educating for me. -- Regards, Tomasz Rola -- ** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. ** ** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home** ** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... ** ** ** ** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomasz_r...@bigfoot.com ** # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
Re: Latin as revolutionary act? (Morlock Elloi)
Or perhaps we just cease speaking Morlock or Eloi. Joe. > Le 11 nov. 2019 à 19:19, Tomasz Rola a écrit : > > On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 11:05:45AM +0400, Patrick Lichty wrote: >> Isn’t this what Esperanto was made for? >> Let’s speak Klingon! > [...] > > Why, let's speak Lojban. There is supposedly ca. hundred speakers of > it, worldwide. Tripling their number would be both appreciated by them > and deemed revolutionary change by many... > > However, we could start from something moderate - culling excessive > lines from replies, maybe? I dare not to propose bottomposting, I am > too shy. > > -- > Regards, > Tomasz Rola > > -- > ** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. ** > ** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home** > ** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... ** > ** ** > ** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomasz_r...@bigfoot.com ** > # distributed via : no commercial use without permission > #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l > # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org > # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
Re: Latin as revolutionary act? (Morlock Elloi)
On Mon, Nov 11, 2019 at 11:05:45AM +0400, Patrick Lichty wrote: > Isn’t this what Esperanto was made for? > Let’s speak Klingon! [...] Why, let's speak Lojban. There is supposedly ca. hundred speakers of it, worldwide. Tripling their number would be both appreciated by them and deemed revolutionary change by many... However, we could start from something moderate - culling excessive lines from replies, maybe? I dare not to propose bottomposting, I am too shy. -- Regards, Tomasz Rola -- ** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. ** ** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home** ** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... ** ** ** ** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomasz_r...@bigfoot.com ** # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
Re: Latin as revolutionary act? (Morlock Elloi)
JES! On 2019-11-11 10:08, Laura Chimera wrote: Isn’t this what Esperanto was made for? My thoughts exactly! On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 at 08:09, Patrick Lichty wrote: Isn’t this what Esperanto was made for? Let’s speak Klingon! On Nov 11, 2019, at 6:00 AM, Renée Lynn Reizman wrote: Ignoring that this is one of the most classist, awful things I've seen proposed, you're making big assumptions that everyone has the same learning styles and abilities to pick up languages. Intellect doesn't require one to be bilingual, and bringing up IQ is a suspect, arbitrary, and meaningless measure of intelligence. I see you also don't give any care to poor or marginalized people who don't have access to good education, tutors, technology, or other environments where learning a dead language would be convenient. Only rich people get to participate in discourse! What's the revolution here? Upholding the ruling class? Renée Lynn Reizman On Sun, Nov 10, 2019 at 3:00 AM wrote: Send nettime-l mailing list submissions to nettime-l@mail.kein.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to nettime-l-requ...@mail.kein.org You can reach the person managing the list at nettime-l-ow...@mail.kein.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of nettime-l digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Latin as revolutionary act? (Morlock Elloi) -- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2019 14:48:36 -0800 From: Morlock Elloi To: nettime-l@mail.kein.org Subject: Latin as revolutionary act? Message-ID: <5dc74244.8090...@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed What would be consequences of using Latin language among group/clique/cabal/underground/elite for discourse, publishing, idea exchange, tweets? (let's ignore for the moment how does one get the above set to learn Latin) First of all, the noise goes down, as there is intellectual effort barrier involved. Feeble-minded, distracted, low IQ, vacuous, and other nobodies are out. It would be like early Internet (1990s) - only nice and interesting people, no rabble. Only more resilient, because the 'price' of learning tongue will never go down, unlike computer equipment and access. Second, the cross-pollution from deluge of mechanically augmented media firehoses goes way down. Language is the medium, and, of course, the medium is the message. It's much harder to influence those thinking in a foreign tongue. Third, the isolated hermetic nature of such setup would allow thinking to mature, being spared from cretinous cheering and booing from the unwashed crowd. At the same time, it can use modern networking technology to attract interest globally. Perdidi unum in mediis soccus lauandi, et iam sentire perfecta! -- # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l End of nettime-l Digest, Vol 146, Issue 17 ** # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
Re: Latin as revolutionary act? (Morlock Elloi)
> Isn’t this what Esperanto was made for? My thoughts exactly! On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 at 08:09, Patrick Lichty wrote: > Isn’t this what Esperanto was made for? > Let’s speak Klingon! > > On Nov 11, 2019, at 6:00 AM, Renée Lynn Reizman > wrote: > > Ignoring that this is one of the most classist, awful things I've seen > proposed, you're making big assumptions that everyone has the same learning > styles and abilities to pick up languages. Intellect doesn't require one to > be bilingual, and bringing up IQ is a suspect, arbitrary, and meaningless > measure of intelligence. > > I see you also don't give any care to poor or marginalized people who > don't have access to good education, tutors, technology, or other > environments where learning a dead language would be convenient. Only rich > people get to participate in discourse! What's the revolution here? > Upholding the ruling class? > > Renée Lynn Reizman > > On Sun, Nov 10, 2019 at 3:00 AM wrote: > >> Send nettime-l mailing list submissions to >> nettime-l@mail.kein.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> nettime-l-requ...@mail.kein.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> nettime-l-ow...@mail.kein.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of nettime-l digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >>1. Latin as revolutionary act? (Morlock Elloi) >> >> >> -- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2019 14:48:36 -0800 >> From: Morlock Elloi >> To: nettime-l@mail.kein.org >> Subject: Latin as revolutionary act? >> Message-ID: <5dc74244.8090...@gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> What would be consequences of using Latin language among >> group/clique/cabal/underground/elite for discourse, publishing, idea >> exchange, tweets? (let's ignore for the moment how does one get the >> above set to learn Latin) >> >> First of all, the noise goes down, as there is intellectual effort >> barrier involved. Feeble-minded, distracted, low IQ, vacuous, and other >> nobodies are out. It would be like early Internet (1990s) - only nice >> and interesting people, no rabble. Only more resilient, because the >> 'price' of learning tongue will never go down, unlike computer equipment >> and access. >> >> Second, the cross-pollution from deluge of mechanically augmented media >> firehoses goes way down. Language is the medium, and, of course, the >> medium is the message. It's much harder to influence those thinking in a >> foreign tongue. >> >> Third, the isolated hermetic nature of such setup would allow thinking >> to mature, being spared from cretinous cheering and booing from the >> unwashed crowd. At the same time, it can use modern networking >> technology to attract interest globally. >> >> >> Perdidi unum in mediis soccus lauandi, et iam sentire perfecta! >> >> >> >> -- >> >> # distributed via : no commercial use without permission >> #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, >> # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets >> # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l >> >> End of nettime-l Digest, Vol 146, Issue 17 >> ** >> > # distributed via : no commercial use without permission > #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l > # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org > # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: > > > # distributed via : no commercial use without permission > #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l > # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org > # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
Re: Latin as revolutionary act? (Morlock Elloi)
Isn’t this what Esperanto was made for? Let’s speak Klingon! > On Nov 11, 2019, at 6:00 AM, Renée Lynn Reizman wrote: > > Ignoring that this is one of the most classist, awful things I've seen > proposed, you're making big assumptions that everyone has the same learning > styles and abilities to pick up languages. Intellect doesn't require one to > be bilingual, and bringing up IQ is a suspect, arbitrary, and meaningless > measure of intelligence. > > I see you also don't give any care to poor or marginalized people who don't > have access to good education, tutors, technology, or other environments > where learning a dead language would be convenient. Only rich people get to > participate in discourse! What's the revolution here? Upholding the ruling > class? > > Renée Lynn Reizman > > On Sun, Nov 10, 2019 at 3:00 AM <mailto:nettime-l-requ...@mail.kein.org>> wrote: > Send nettime-l mailing list submissions to > nettime-l@mail.kein.org <mailto:nettime-l@mail.kein.org> > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l > <http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nettime-l-requ...@mail.kein.org > <mailto:nettime-l-requ...@mail.kein.org> > > You can reach the person managing the list at > nettime-l-ow...@mail.kein.org <mailto:nettime-l-ow...@mail.kein.org> > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of nettime-l digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Latin as revolutionary act? (Morlock Elloi) > > > -- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2019 14:48:36 -0800 > From: Morlock Elloi mailto:morlockel...@gmail.com>> > To: nettime-l@mail.kein.org <mailto:nettime-l@mail.kein.org> > Subject: Latin as revolutionary act? > Message-ID: <5dc74244.8090...@gmail.com <mailto:5dc74244.8090...@gmail.com>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > What would be consequences of using Latin language among > group/clique/cabal/underground/elite for discourse, publishing, idea > exchange, tweets? (let's ignore for the moment how does one get the > above set to learn Latin) > > First of all, the noise goes down, as there is intellectual effort > barrier involved. Feeble-minded, distracted, low IQ, vacuous, and other > nobodies are out. It would be like early Internet (1990s) - only nice > and interesting people, no rabble. Only more resilient, because the > 'price' of learning tongue will never go down, unlike computer equipment > and access. > > Second, the cross-pollution from deluge of mechanically augmented media > firehoses goes way down. Language is the medium, and, of course, the > medium is the message. It's much harder to influence those thinking in a > foreign tongue. > > Third, the isolated hermetic nature of such setup would allow thinking > to mature, being spared from cretinous cheering and booing from the > unwashed crowd. At the same time, it can use modern networking > technology to attract interest globally. > > > Perdidi unum in mediis soccus lauandi, et iam sentire perfecta! > > > > -- > > # distributed via : no commercial use without permission > #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l > <http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l> > > End of nettime-l Digest, Vol 146, Issue 17 > ** > # distributed via : no commercial use without permission > #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l > # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org > # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
Re: Latin as revolutionary act? (Morlock Elloi)
Ignoring that this is one of the most classist, awful things I've seen proposed, you're making big assumptions that everyone has the same learning styles and abilities to pick up languages. Intellect doesn't require one to be bilingual, and bringing up IQ is a suspect, arbitrary, and meaningless measure of intelligence. I see you also don't give any care to poor or marginalized people who don't have access to good education, tutors, technology, or other environments where learning a dead language would be convenient. Only rich people get to participate in discourse! What's the revolution here? Upholding the ruling class? Renée Lynn Reizman On Sun, Nov 10, 2019 at 3:00 AM wrote: > Send nettime-l mailing list submissions to > nettime-l@mail.kein.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > nettime-l-requ...@mail.kein.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > nettime-l-ow...@mail.kein.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of nettime-l digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > >1. Latin as revolutionary act? (Morlock Elloi) > > > ------ > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2019 14:48:36 -0800 > From: Morlock Elloi > To: nettime-l@mail.kein.org > Subject: Latin as revolutionary act? > Message-ID: <5dc74244.8090...@gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > What would be consequences of using Latin language among > group/clique/cabal/underground/elite for discourse, publishing, idea > exchange, tweets? (let's ignore for the moment how does one get the > above set to learn Latin) > > First of all, the noise goes down, as there is intellectual effort > barrier involved. Feeble-minded, distracted, low IQ, vacuous, and other > nobodies are out. It would be like early Internet (1990s) - only nice > and interesting people, no rabble. Only more resilient, because the > 'price' of learning tongue will never go down, unlike computer equipment > and access. > > Second, the cross-pollution from deluge of mechanically augmented media > firehoses goes way down. Language is the medium, and, of course, the > medium is the message. It's much harder to influence those thinking in a > foreign tongue. > > Third, the isolated hermetic nature of such setup would allow thinking > to mature, being spared from cretinous cheering and booing from the > unwashed crowd. At the same time, it can use modern networking > technology to attract interest globally. > > > Perdidi unum in mediis soccus lauandi, et iam sentire perfecta! > > > > -- > > # distributed via : no commercial use without permission > #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l > > End of nettime-l Digest, Vol 146, Issue 17 > ** > # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
Re: morlock elloi
dear Orsan and nettime readers, ultimately I'm sorry for my flurr of posts and will follow Bronac's suggestion to shrink also my presence down after this and go back lurking for another ~six months, unless there is something specific I can contribute about projects I'm involved into. But even then, other colleagues like Usman are here and much better than me at it. I appreciated very much some posts from other fellow lurkers and part of the conversation (helped also by Ted's and Felix posts) that is somehow encouraging people to participate here. Nettime is a great resource, most lists of its caliber are just space for announcements and I'm very happy this is a space for confrontation and debate. It gathers readers and writers of very very, very high quality, people I'd be ready to pay a subscription for. And I hope will soon become less hostile to critical thinkers who aren't up for stirring every argument in a slant. Clearly there is people willing to chip in, eventually and clearly there is a need for it at the onset of a new social network exodus. Now about this whole Soros thing Orsan, you know me and other people here hold you in great esteem, but please think twice before continuing this anti-Soros campaign. Not just because it reeks a bit like Liz notes, but because is completely off-topic and, adding to other top-quote posts, makes our common space way less appealing to those of us acquainted to good netiquette manners. more than off-topic and beyond the subject, what I find personally most disturbing is that we started with a thread about Francesca's article on the Guardian mentioning DECODE and we are ending up talking about her husband and his (absolutely immaginary and you don't even know how far from reality) current ties to Soros. I think this is really bad. And not just because of Soros, a subject that perhaps should also claim Simona's attention. I know Francesca well enough to know she gives a frill about being a woman, but really then, just from my own observation point of view, stirring the conversation out of the subject to talk about Morozov is just plain offensive to the work she capable of doing, which really is her own. To me this off-topic is not only uncomprehensible, but also unacceptable, because it calls for a male presence to explain power. I refuse that. Let go all the psychedelic rant on Soros conspiracies, I just want to talk about the subject and I think that Francesca deserves her own space and, if really necessary, her own conspiracy theory. Wow. Ok, end of the reality show (net)time for me now. ciao -- Denis Roio a.k.a. Jaromil http://Dyne.org think &do tank Ph.D, CTO & co-foundersoftware to empower communities Book keynotes, lectures, workshops: https://jaromil.dyne.org ⚷ crypto κρυπτο крипто गुप्त् 加密 האנוסים المشفره GnuPG: 6113D89C A825C5CE DD02C872 73B35DA5 4ACB7D10 # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
Re: morlock elloi
Your talking about Soros is quite antisemitic. (And your whole theory therefore false and unfounded) I am not gonna cite the infected paragraphs here. They are quite easy to spot. Ok…one.. “Money dealing capitalist" > He is a money dealing capitalist, ... > investor clients with closer ties to the industry, putting his money > both in giant industrial investments etc. …. contact > with the OBOR and Industrial Internet consortium, Cisco and IBM, Intel > etc. vs. Googles, Facebooks, and others. Yet he still has the ability > to play like the letter fraction, which is the owners of Wall Street > giants like Morgan, Sachs, part of Rockefeller and Rothschild etc. So, > I bet if one go through Soros’ largest investors, one would find those > corporations that have closer ties to the industry, while their money > is also invested whatever brings more and easier money including wars > and military industrial complex, or Google. Bye/lizvlx > On 9. Apr 2018, at 23:56, Örsan Şenalp wrote: > > Jaromil, Soros is in us, he is everywhere don't you see that :) > > Suicide bunny.. funny.. though I don't really get in what sense what > I do here would bring my end himm may be you're right.. > > I wish, instead, you would think of me being spastic or autistic, or > too naive in insisting on authenticity of radical politics. Then I > wouldn’t mind. > > Well.. even in case of extremely well planned and organized > revolutionary counter-conspiracy, which I don't think neither possible > or desirable, it would be almost impossible to be so close to Soros as > Evgeny is, (which he is not hiding) and be able to seriously pursue > any radical politics. Which is claimed or attributed to him here, and > other places, mainly mainstream and liberal media. > > The booklet you refer, I shared on the other thread, by Evgeny and > Bria shows that Evgeny and Bria are collaborating, in and on > Barcelona, and other cities. where there are lots of stuff happening > about cities (movements), digit rights (movements), independence > movements etc. So it should not come as a surprise that Soros pops up > from somewhere. > > This is what Evgeny says in his wiki-page: he is involved in Online > Transitions (of Eastern Europe and beyond), he is a fellow at the New > America Foundation (chaired by Eric Schmidt and Ann Marry Slaughter), > he sits in a OSF fellowship chair, he is blogging for the 'Foreign > Policy', he is a Yahoo fellow at 'Walsh School of Foreign Service'.. > you name it. > > Moreover Morozov's role in all these places, as in Barcelona, and in > broader Europe makes him one of the most influential persons of 2018 > right, according to some Italian magazine (bet it is not an ordinary > one)? Do you really think he is such influential? Does anyone else? > Anyone without Soros funding-income relation ties him to do so? Can > you see or feel such influence when he is around you? in his link to > Francesca for instance, or may be Ada Colau or in Catalan Movement of > independence? or the rising cities movement? > > If one would say Morozov’s is a genuinely radical internet critic, and > he has an amazingly bright brain and the creativity in his critics is > like Picasso painting.. and that is what brought him to where he is > now, others would probably lough at it and claim the opposite. One can > easily claim that those who are crediting him are doing that because > they have feel obliged, by consent and for self-interest, to be able > to get access to the next round of funding etc. And they can only be > radical as a liberal can, not further than that. A person from outside > would either see Morozov as part of Soros' inner circle, or would > think that Soros is really a radical-critical even a leftist one. Or > if Evgeny is a really radical left critic, then Soros is a suicide > bunny J > > Seriously, I do think that these guys are playing a suicidal game, but > I don’t think in bunny's way. > > There is a clear connection, a good hacker cannot miss here. > > Probably an individual, and his individual political vision could be > able to keep sort of autonomy or independence while working in Soros > circle. Yet it can only be a modest one, a liberal kind. What we read > from Calin Dan's 97 email to net-time list, even that was quite not > possible. Morally, in my opinion it is not even an issue, being part > of conspiracies of Soros (not the Soros conspiracy) is not a simple > thing, or joke. > > He does not rely only on soft-velvet glows to fist countries down; or > only deploys tech tools for online transitions. The guy has involved > and does involve in dirty stuff too; in his tool kit there are > assassinations, spying, military coups, civil wars, or financing > armament and war parties, you name it. > > Worse of all about not having a proper theory of class fractions and > Soros place in fractured class struggle is deadly. Soros’ operations, > as a class actor, have contributed massively in regenerating fascism
Re: morlock elloi
Jaromil, Soros is in us, he is everywhere don't you see that :) Suicide bunny.. funny.. though I don't really get in what sense what I do here would bring my end himm may be you're right.. I wish, instead, you would think of me being spastic or autistic, or too naive in insisting on authenticity of radical politics. Then I wouldn’t mind. Well.. even in case of extremely well planned and organized revolutionary counter-conspiracy, which I don't think neither possible or desirable, it would be almost impossible to be so close to Soros as Evgeny is, (which he is not hiding) and be able to seriously pursue any radical politics. Which is claimed or attributed to him here, and other places, mainly mainstream and liberal media. The booklet you refer, I shared on the other thread, by Evgeny and Bria shows that Evgeny and Bria are collaborating, in and on Barcelona, and other cities. where there are lots of stuff happening about cities (movements), digit rights (movements), independence movements etc. So it should not come as a surprise that Soros pops up from somewhere. This is what Evgeny says in his wiki-page: he is involved in Online Transitions (of Eastern Europe and beyond), he is a fellow at the New America Foundation (chaired by Eric Schmidt and Ann Marry Slaughter), he sits in a OSF fellowship chair, he is blogging for the 'Foreign Policy', he is a Yahoo fellow at 'Walsh School of Foreign Service'.. you name it. Moreover Morozov's role in all these places, as in Barcelona, and in broader Europe makes him one of the most influential persons of 2018 right, according to some Italian magazine (bet it is not an ordinary one)? Do you really think he is such influential? Does anyone else? Anyone without Soros funding-income relation ties him to do so? Can you see or feel such influence when he is around you? in his link to Francesca for instance, or may be Ada Colau or in Catalan Movement of independence? or the rising cities movement? If one would say Morozov’s is a genuinely radical internet critic, and he has an amazingly bright brain and the creativity in his critics is like Picasso painting.. and that is what brought him to where he is now, others would probably lough at it and claim the opposite. One can easily claim that those who are crediting him are doing that because they have feel obliged, by consent and for self-interest, to be able to get access to the next round of funding etc. And they can only be radical as a liberal can, not further than that. A person from outside would either see Morozov as part of Soros' inner circle, or would think that Soros is really a radical-critical even a leftist one. Or if Evgeny is a really radical left critic, then Soros is a suicide bunny J Seriously, I do think that these guys are playing a suicidal game, but I don’t think in bunny's way. There is a clear connection, a good hacker cannot miss here. Probably an individual, and his individual political vision could be able to keep sort of autonomy or independence while working in Soros circle. Yet it can only be a modest one, a liberal kind. What we read from Calin Dan's 97 email to net-time list, even that was quite not possible. Morally, in my opinion it is not even an issue, being part of conspiracies of Soros (not the Soros conspiracy) is not a simple thing, or joke. He does not rely only on soft-velvet glows to fist countries down; or only deploys tech tools for online transitions. The guy has involved and does involve in dirty stuff too; in his tool kit there are assassinations, spying, military coups, civil wars, or financing armament and war parties, you name it. Worse of all about not having a proper theory of class fractions and Soros place in fractured class struggle is deadly. Soros’ operations, as a class actor, have contributed massively in regenerating fascism in Hungary, Russia, Turkey, Egypt.. and Trump too is partly of his creation -and partly of the other fractions of finance capital against which he might be struggling or resisting, but they have built a transnational ‘deep state’ during the 80s and 90s. Of course fascists own creativity and the despair of the masses too are part of the story. Still one can make a sad collection of standardized Alex Jones stories, in every language now; Jones became millionaire but almost in each country where Soros operated there emerged many Joneses, Soros’ class operations fed conspiracy theories, and in return they enriched the right wing bases. When seeing the involvement of liberal / radical left-civil society coalitions with Soros’ operations masses bought conspiracy theories and Ergodan, Orban, Putin, gained and consolidated their power. They are growing on the fear of external threat and they too create their own conspiracies; then national leftists and ultra-right merges at the bottom again against the Soros led (plus NWO conspiracy as a bonus)... This shit almost everywhere. And liberal and libertarian nativity, liberal-left alliances aga
Re: morlock elloi
To paraphrase from the old joke, Long-time lurker, first-time writer here... (Ok, not quite first time.) I found Felix's and Ted's responses both instructive and engaging, and want to respond to two specific things: 1) Both Felix and Ted mention concerns about insularity. As a long-time reader, and without being too glib, I would like to reassure you of the correctness of your concerns. :) The discussions here on Nettime often remind me of all the old jokes about how academic fights are the fiercest because the spoils are so small. There is, in my view, little incentive for getting involved. And the few times I have offered a perspective of my own, well, let's just say it has not encouraged me much further. If the list of subscribers is in the hundreds, let alone the thousands, one would never know it based on the number of consistent voices here. Likewise, I share the concern about tone, tendencies towards (very!) fixed perspectives on particular subjects, etc. Again, not especially conducive to widening the circle of participation. You might (rightly) then ask: why stay on the list? Well, I'm omnivorous in my consumption of information. While I may only read 1% of what comes through, that 1% is certainly interesting. That's something. 2) It would overstate the case to say that I "long" for the days of moderation. But I share what I gather is Felix's own nostalgia for it. The flow of responses under moderation was different, and perhaps better. Never having had the responsibility for moderating the list, I make no claims as to the ease of the process; it was clearly a significant responsibility and one for which I was always grateful, as a reader. Removing the moderation merely means we must all be better digital citizens, to reflect the community we want to have. (If only it were so simple, right?) Sascha On 4/8/18 4:15 PM, Felix Stalder wrote: When we turned off moderation a couple of months ago, we did so because we perceived that nettime was limiting itself by too many implicit rules that had accumulated over time. So we decided to break one, abolish our position as moderators, as an invitation others to break a few more in the hope to make room for some new voices/ideas/styles etc. Kinda worked... For me, the value of the list has always been that it creates a collective space for reflection. That's a delicate thing. If it becomes too cozy, it turns into an self-reflective in-group, if it become to confrontational, then there is little change of actually thinking together, rather everyone digs in their heels. I still like the non-moderated flow, but I dislike the sucking noise of real-time. It turns out, at least for me, one of the best things that moderation did was to induce semi-random delays, simply because we never worked on a fixed schedule when to do the manual work of moderation. Sometimes a few hours would pass, sometimes more a full day before the message got approved. We were thinking about ways to introduce that delay again, without reverting back to moderation. Of course, it could be done, but we didn't do it. So, lets see where this goes. We can break a few more rules if it helps to push forward our collective attempt to understand and do something in the present -- whatever that is for each the 4500 people on the list. Felix On 2018-04-08 21:18, tbyfield wrote: Hmmm. morlock's style has struck me as problematic at times, but other problems concern me much more: the obstinate gender bias, the prevalence of a few voices, the lack of experimentation, and sedentary/habitual tendencies in subject, style, regional focus. I get that his/her/their mail might be a frequent low-level irritant for some people, the kind of thing that sparks eruptions. But for me the nature of that eruption matters more than the cause: ad-homimen attacks, people ordering each other around, and people who've never tired of letting the world remember that they 'founded' nettime decades ago leaping to the barricades in private mail to un-propose a "permanent ban." If we're going to take any drastic action, it'll be to permanently ban anyone who proposes permanently banning someone else. Felix and I have spent twenty years tending to this list, so our views are, at the very least, well informed. Felix can speak for himself if he wants, but I think the tendencies above are a more serious threat than the pace or tone of any contributor. If it's true that one person "is killing the list," then this list is dead already. If it's not true, then it says a lot that such a claim would go unquestioned. Not about the person who said it (more boring ad-hominem stuff, bleh) but about deeper shifts — for example, in whether people trust that an environment like this can change organically or instead needs draconian 'leadership.' If it does, it's dead. A year or two or three ago, I thought the list was pretty much dead. But it has a funny habit of rising from the grave and wobbling
Re: morlock elloi
dear Ted, On Sun, 08 Apr 2018, tbyfield wrote: > twitterish performance of a cynical old white techie Oh BTW do not miss this http://n-gate.com It replaced my weekly morlockelloi's dose. beware it may replace also nettime one day :^))) na, just joking. but hey, what is happening now? I feel a bit uncomfortable looking at the waves this scaramuche has spawned. its already more than one thread. Orsan is running around like a suicide bunny in conspiracy land. There is a new thread with Soros in the subject, accusing Francesca and Evgeny of some sort of ancestral sin of Soros-puppetry, likely funneled through Rosa Luxemburg's foundation, right after Simona accused Francesca of terrible but undefined corruption crimes. I am not sure. I mean. It is a bit hilarious :^) Where did Soros came into this story exactly?! Oh maybe its about Hungary's Orbanization? BTW, is David Orban the cousing of Viktor? I'd be surprised. Such a nice guy! ciao # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
Re: morlock elloi
On 2018-04-08 22:15, Felix Stalder wrote: When we turned off moderation a couple of months ago, we did so because we perceived that nettime was limiting itself by too many implicit rules that had accumulated over time. So we decided to break one, abolish our position as moderators, as an invitation others to break a few more in the hope to make room for some new voices/ideas/styles etc. Kinda worked... For me, the value of the list has always been that it creates a collective space for reflection. That's a delicate thing. If it becomes too cozy, it turns into an self-reflective in-group, if it become to confrontational, then there is little change of actually thinking together, rather everyone digs in their heels. I still like the non-moderated flow, but I dislike the sucking noise of real-time. It turns out, at least for me, one of the best things that moderation did was to induce semi-random delays, simply because we never worked on a fixed schedule when to do the manual work of moderation. Sometimes a few hours would pass, sometimes more a full day before the message got approved. We were thinking about ways to introduce that delay again, without reverting back to moderation. Of course, it could be done, but we didn't do it. So, lets see where this goes. We can break a few more rules if it helps to push forward our collective attempt to understand and do something in the present -- whatever that is for each the 4500 people on the list. Felix On 2018-04-08 21:18, tbyfield wrote: Hmmm. morlock's style has struck me as problematic at times, but other problems concern me much more: the obstinate gender bias, the prevalence of a few voices, the lack of experimentation, and sedentary/habitual tendencies in subject, style, regional focus. I get that his/her/their mail might be a frequent low-level irritant for some people, the kind of thing that sparks eruptions. But for me the nature of that eruption matters more than the cause: ad-homimen attacks, people ordering each other around, and people who've never tired of letting the world remember that they 'founded' nettime decades ago leaping to the barricades in private mail to un-propose a "permanent ban." If we're going to take any drastic action, it'll be to permanently ban anyone who proposes permanently banning someone else. Felix and I have spent twenty years tending to this list, so our views are, at the very least, well informed. Felix can speak for himself if he wants, but I think the tendencies above are a more serious threat than the pace or tone of any contributor. If it's true that one person "is killing the list," then this list is dead already. If it's not true, then it says a lot that such a claim would go unquestioned. Not about the person who said it (more boring ad-hominem stuff, bleh) but about deeper shifts — for example, in whether people trust that an environment like this can change organically or instead needs draconian 'leadership.' If it does, it's dead. A year or two or three ago, I thought the list was pretty much dead. But it has a funny habit of rising from the grave and wobbling around for a while, and there's been a trickle of people de-lurking or first-posting. Nettime needs much more of that, and a much wider range of perspectives, styles, and tolerances. But that kind of pious plea that 'we can do better' smells like something Zuckerberg would say, doesn't it? So let me moderate that: we also need to do worse — much worse. Doing worse has always been a sign of life on this list. Some of you will remember Paul Garrin, integer/antiorp/nn, and jodi — entities that, in different ways, embodied and exploited the list's most extreme possibilities. There was a time when infuriating provocations were seen as good. As usual, Jaromil squeezed five interesting ideas into two sentences: maybe he passed on his account. The sort of replying-myself thing he is doing shows that some sort of twitter ab-user has taken place and the quantity of activity indicates there may be more people behind the account now. I like the idea that morlock is a sort of anti-antiorp. I don't think it's true, but it doesn't matter: nettime has always actively supported a false-names policy. But the idea that morlock is an improper name, a nym for a twitterish performance of a cynical old white techie, is much more interesting than bourgie pearl-clutching about how this is nettime and we...we have standards! I know this is sort of old-school, but if you don't like something, maybe try (a) contacting the person privately with a suggestion and/or (b) filtering your mail. Cheers, Ted Hehe, these are two good posts immo (together with Allan Siegel's cool-headed view on the issue that triggered this whole bandobast). A suggestion: would there exist a programme that automatically buffers any post less than 10 (or 5, or ...) lines long on a given thread and 'digests' it, like the mods used to do, aggregat
Re: morlock elloi
on reflection might Jaromil at one and the same time now be Morlock On 8 April 2018 at 22:42, Brian Holmes wrote: > Ted writes: > > "if you don't like something, maybe try (a) contacting the person > privately with a suggestion and/or (b) filtering your mail." > > Well, I have tried option one, and number two is also fine. But Morlock > contributes lots of interesting stuff, so before turning on the trashcan I > don't see the harm in suggesting some self-moderation. It's all an > experiment in what happens next. > > # distributed via : no commercial use without permission > #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l > # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org > # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: > -- Bronaċ # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
Re: morlock elloi
Ted writes: "if you don't like something, maybe try (a) contacting the person privately with a suggestion and/or (b) filtering your mail." Well, I have tried option one, and number two is also fine. But Morlock contributes lots of interesting stuff, so before turning on the trashcan I don't see the harm in suggesting some self-moderation. It's all an experiment in what happens next. # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
Re: morlock elloi
Never noticed nettime was moderated, must have missed or misunderstood, so little obnoxious reminders of dictatorially unctuous necessity like civilian control of the military. # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
Re: morlock elloi
When we turned off moderation a couple of months ago, we did so because we perceived that nettime was limiting itself by too many implicit rules that had accumulated over time. So we decided to break one, abolish our position as moderators, as an invitation others to break a few more in the hope to make room for some new voices/ideas/styles etc. Kinda worked... For me, the value of the list has always been that it creates a collective space for reflection. That's a delicate thing. If it becomes too cozy, it turns into an self-reflective in-group, if it become to confrontational, then there is little change of actually thinking together, rather everyone digs in their heels. I still like the non-moderated flow, but I dislike the sucking noise of real-time. It turns out, at least for me, one of the best things that moderation did was to induce semi-random delays, simply because we never worked on a fixed schedule when to do the manual work of moderation. Sometimes a few hours would pass, sometimes more a full day before the message got approved. We were thinking about ways to introduce that delay again, without reverting back to moderation. Of course, it could be done, but we didn't do it. So, lets see where this goes. We can break a few more rules if it helps to push forward our collective attempt to understand and do something in the present -- whatever that is for each the 4500 people on the list. Felix On 2018-04-08 21:18, tbyfield wrote: > Hmmm. > > morlock's style has struck me as problematic at times, but other > problems concern me much more: the obstinate gender bias, the prevalence > of a few voices, the lack of experimentation, and sedentary/habitual > tendencies in subject, style, regional focus. I get that his/her/their > mail might be a frequent low-level irritant for some people, the kind of > thing that sparks eruptions. But for me the nature of that eruption > matters more than the cause: ad-homimen attacks, people ordering each > other around, and people who've never tired of letting the world > remember that they 'founded' nettime decades ago leaping to the > barricades in private mail to un-propose a "permanent ban." If we're > going to take any drastic action, it'll be to permanently ban anyone who > proposes permanently banning someone else. > > Felix and I have spent twenty years tending to this list, so our views > are, at the very least, well informed. Felix can speak for himself if he > wants, but I think the tendencies above are a more serious threat than > the pace or tone of any contributor. If it's true that one person "is > killing the list," then this list is dead already. If it's not true, > then it says a lot that such a claim would go unquestioned. Not about > the person who said it (more boring ad-hominem stuff, bleh) but about > deeper shifts — for example, in whether people trust that an environment > like this can change organically or instead needs draconian > 'leadership.' If it does, it's dead. > > A year or two or three ago, I thought the list was pretty much dead. But > it has a funny habit of rising from the grave and wobbling around for a > while, and there's been a trickle of people de-lurking or first-posting. > Nettime needs much more of that, and a much wider range of perspectives, > styles, and tolerances. But that kind of pious plea that 'we can do > better' smells like something Zuckerberg would say, doesn't it? So let > me moderate that: we also need to do worse — much worse. Doing worse has > always been a sign of life on this list. Some of you will remember Paul > Garrin, integer/antiorp/nn, and jodi — entities that, in different ways, > embodied and exploited the list's most extreme possibilities. There was > a time when infuriating provocations were seen as good. > > As usual, Jaromil squeezed five interesting ideas into two sentences: > >> maybe he passed on his account. The sort of replying-myself thing he >> is doing shows that some sort of twitter ab-user has taken place and >> the quantity of activity indicates there may be more people behind the >> account now. > > I like the idea that morlock is a sort of anti-antiorp. I don't think > it's true, but it doesn't matter: nettime has always actively supported > a false-names policy. But the idea that morlock is an improper name, a > nym for a twitterish performance of a cynical old white techie, is much > more interesting than bourgie pearl-clutching about how this is nettime > and we...we have standards! > > I know this is sort of old-school, but if you don't like something, > maybe try (a) contacting the person privately with a suggestion and/or > (b) filtering your mail. > > Cheers, > Ted > # distributed via : no commercial use without permission > # is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l > # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett..
Re: morlock elloi
On 8 Apr 2018, at 15:18, I wrote: morlock's style has struck me as problematic at times, but other problems concern me much more: the obstinate gender bias, the prevalence of a few voices, the lack of experimentation, and sedentary/habitual tendencies in subject, style, regional focus At the risk of replying to myself, which Jaromil noted earlier, let me clarify: I meant other problems *with nettime's* gender bias etc. Cheers, T # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
Re: morlock elloi
Hmmm. morlock's style has struck me as problematic at times, but other problems concern me much more: the obstinate gender bias, the prevalence of a few voices, the lack of experimentation, and sedentary/habitual tendencies in subject, style, regional focus. I get that his/her/their mail might be a frequent low-level irritant for some people, the kind of thing that sparks eruptions. But for me the nature of that eruption matters more than the cause: ad-homimen attacks, people ordering each other around, and people who've never tired of letting the world remember that they 'founded' nettime decades ago leaping to the barricades in private mail to un-propose a "permanent ban." If we're going to take any drastic action, it'll be to permanently ban anyone who proposes permanently banning someone else. Felix and I have spent twenty years tending to this list, so our views are, at the very least, well informed. Felix can speak for himself if he wants, but I think the tendencies above are a more serious threat than the pace or tone of any contributor. If it's true that one person "is killing the list," then this list is dead already. If it's not true, then it says a lot that such a claim would go unquestioned. Not about the person who said it (more boring ad-hominem stuff, bleh) but about deeper shifts — for example, in whether people trust that an environment like this can change organically or instead needs draconian 'leadership.' If it does, it's dead. A year or two or three ago, I thought the list was pretty much dead. But it has a funny habit of rising from the grave and wobbling around for a while, and there's been a trickle of people de-lurking or first-posting. Nettime needs much more of that, and a much wider range of perspectives, styles, and tolerances. But that kind of pious plea that 'we can do better' smells like something Zuckerberg would say, doesn't it? So let me moderate that: we also need to do worse — much worse. Doing worse has always been a sign of life on this list. Some of you will remember Paul Garrin, integer/antiorp/nn, and jodi — entities that, in different ways, embodied and exploited the list's most extreme possibilities. There was a time when infuriating provocations were seen as good. As usual, Jaromil squeezed five interesting ideas into two sentences: maybe he passed on his account. The sort of replying-myself thing he is doing shows that some sort of twitter ab-user has taken place and the quantity of activity indicates there may be more people behind the account now. I like the idea that morlock is a sort of anti-antiorp. I don't think it's true, but it doesn't matter: nettime has always actively supported a false-names policy. But the idea that morlock is an improper name, a nym for a twitterish performance of a cynical old white techie, is much more interesting than bourgie pearl-clutching about how this is nettime and we...we have standards! I know this is sort of old-school, but if you don't like something, maybe try (a) contacting the person privately with a suggestion and/or (b) filtering your mail. Cheers, Ted # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
Re: morlock elloi
Jaromil wrote: "I don't know what else to think. maybe he passed on his account. The sort of replying-myself thing he is doing shows that some sort of twitter ab-user has taken place and the quantity of activity indicates there may be more people behind the account now." That's interesting. Sometimes the posts from Morlock are very challenging and provocative, but the constant stream of quick commentary and crude aggression is killing the list. Lower the volume, stick to your core issues and quit the ad hominem attacks is my request to the entity. Nettime is an interesting place because ideas emerge, circulate and morph in complex patterns. There has never before been a case where one channel is open and sending all the time. Brian On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 1:08 AM, Jaromil wrote: > On Sat, 07 Apr 2018, Tilman Baumgärtel wrote: > > > When exactly did this list become primarily a vehicle for the > > endless wisecracking of some guy who has borrowed his name from a > > novel from 1895? > > my record for posterity: I know well this list and most people who > started it, read and write *sometimes* myself since 20 years. I used > to be strongly against the moderation of this list 10 years ago, a > measure which is just recently removed I understand. > > morlockelloi has been around as an anonymous writer since very long. I > used to be one of his fans, plus at times a sparring partner. Reading > some of his writings from 10 years ago, some of us believed he could > be William Gibson, who has also been somehow close to this list in its > early days at least. > > what I register now is that his activity intensified and the quality > of his attacks descended below the entertaining level. There ara > flurring posts from him in the last months, where he even replies to > himself, something I recall he never did. > > Plus traits of his personality are changing, he is much more of a > 'mr. know-it-all' type now, while before was more of a cynical > quasi-Bruce-Sterling designy type person dismissing fluff and clearing > out the way for proper arguments. > > I don't know what else to think. maybe he passed on his account. The > sort of replying-myself thing he is doing shows that some sort of > twitter ab-user has taken place and the quantity of activity indicates > there may be more people behind the account now. > > ciao > > -- > Denis Roio a.k.a. Jaromil http://Dyne.org think &do tank > Ph.D, CTO & co-foundersoftware to empower communities > Book keynotes, lectures, workshops: https://jaromil.dyne.org > ⚷ crypto κρυπτο крипто गुप्त् 加密 האנוסים المشفره > GnuPG: 6113D89C A825C5CE DD02C872 73B35DA5 4ACB7D10 > > # distributed via : no commercial use without permission > #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l > # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org > # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: > # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
Re: morlock elloi
On Sat, 07 Apr 2018, Tilman Baumgärtel wrote: > When exactly did this list become primarily a vehicle for the > endless wisecracking of some guy who has borrowed his name from a > novel from 1895? my record for posterity: I know well this list and most people who started it, read and write *sometimes* myself since 20 years. I used to be strongly against the moderation of this list 10 years ago, a measure which is just recently removed I understand. morlockelloi has been around as an anonymous writer since very long. I used to be one of his fans, plus at times a sparring partner. Reading some of his writings from 10 years ago, some of us believed he could be William Gibson, who has also been somehow close to this list in its early days at least. what I register now is that his activity intensified and the quality of his attacks descended below the entertaining level. There ara flurring posts from him in the last months, where he even replies to himself, something I recall he never did. Plus traits of his personality are changing, he is much more of a 'mr. know-it-all' type now, while before was more of a cynical quasi-Bruce-Sterling designy type person dismissing fluff and clearing out the way for proper arguments. I don't know what else to think. maybe he passed on his account. The sort of replying-myself thing he is doing shows that some sort of twitter ab-user has taken place and the quantity of activity indicates there may be more people behind the account now. ciao -- Denis Roio a.k.a. Jaromil http://Dyne.org think &do tank Ph.D, CTO & co-foundersoftware to empower communities Book keynotes, lectures, workshops: https://jaromil.dyne.org ⚷ crypto κρυπτο крипто गुप्त् 加密 האנוסים المشفره GnuPG: 6113D89C A825C5CE DD02C872 73B35DA5 4ACB7D10 # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
morlock elloi
When exactly did this list become primarily a vehicle for the endless wisecracking of some guy who has borrowed his name from a novel from 1895? Am 07.04.2018 um 22:43 schrieb Morlock Elloi: As an activist who lives and fights in Barcelona since 28 years, I can say without fear of legal reprisals that Francesca Bria's policy as Commissioner in the City of Barcelona is for the most part a fraud. This was the "Woody Allen brings out Marshall McLuhan in Annie Hall" moment ... # distributed via : no commercial use without permission # is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
