RE: [REQ] Adding support for simultaneous wireless networks
I'm glad someone from Canonical responded, as Ubuntu is my distro of choice. The reason I don't have access to the access point/router is because the network is locked down to the point of not being able to connect to other devices on the network. I know this is not a standard use case, but you could extend it by imagining someone at Starbucks on the Starbucks wifi wanting to print to their portable printer which only supports wifi. In this case, they would also have to disconnect from the wifi access point and reconnect to the printer. Or imagine a user wanting to connect to two wireless networks at the same time to transfer files. While these two ARE special cases, the other issue should be a fairly common one - having internet through one connection (whether it's wired, wireless, an aircard, bluetooth tethering, dial-up, etc.) and wanting to connect to a wifi enabled printer. In any of these cases, it becomes nigh impossible th achieve the desired result. And so far I haven't found anything in network-manager that will facilitate this. And as stated by Dan, it also extends to other special use cases (sharing a network connection with another device, wanting to access a private network at the same time as your internet connection, etc.) Ideally there would be a way to specify a network connection as an internet connection (and enable load-balancing for multiple connections, I suppose) and designating a network connection as a private connection (automatic searching for devices occurs automatically on all private networks, typing in an IANA restricted IP address will check both networks for availability of that address/port and prompt if it's found on more than one network). Subject: Re: [REQ] Adding support for simultaneous wireless networks From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; networkmanager-list@gnome.org Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2008 18:58:32 +0100 ah ok then. however, i think it should be a bit more clear to the user what to do. something like a 3 step wizard like bluez-gnome has now for setting up new bluetooth devices would be nice. for example something like this: 1. select the device connected to the internet 2. select the device for others to connect to, to use the shared connection 3. (optional for wifi) select encryption and then nm sets up the shared connection on the chosen device. just an idea, open for improvements and comments ;) greets, Björn On Mon, 2008-10-27 at 11:47 -0400, Dan Williams wrote: On Mon, 2008-10-27 at 16:37 +0100, Bjoern Martensen wrote: a friend of mine has a desktop pc with 2 ethernet devices onboard and uses one to connect to his dsl modem and one to share this pppoe connection over to his xbox. being able to share a connection not only wired - wifi but also wired - wired would be nice in such situations and it can't be done with the current state. NM 0.7 allows connection sharing between arbitrary devices. Dan On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 2:01 PM, Jerone Young wrote: This is not a standard use case. The fact is most consumers would have the wireless printer connected to their wifi network. I myself have a wireless printer and it connects to my wifi network, where I just access it like a standard network printer. I'm a little confused on exactly why you are connecting to your printer via ad-hoc mode, unless you do not have a wifi access point. To which once you did get one, you need to connect the printer to the access point. The only common case for this connecting to a printer wirelessly directly is via bluetooth, but this is handled by bluez and not network-manager. Also devices that do support it, handle this easily. Supporting something like this actually confuses users. How do you know which connection to get to the internet from ? .. it makes little since ... On Mon, 2008-10-27 at 00:53 -0600, Brent Newland wrote: I work at a retail store selling computers, and I can tell you that all the printer manufacturer's seem to be going wireless. Out of the latest selection of HP and Canon printers we carry, nearly all of the consumer level machines have built in wireless. Alot of people expect to be able to connect to the internet (whether it's through a wireless network, a cell phone card, a cable) and also be able to connect to their printer at the same time to print wirelessly, but that's not currently an easy thing to configure. What's even worse is if you want to connect to a wireless network while being connected to a wireless printer in ad-hoc mode. Currently, to do this you would have to use airtun-ng (this is the only program I've found which does this): http://www.aircrack-ng.org/doku.php?id=airtun-ngDokuWiki=70b54c7d04564ca6bcee0f8746f3044d#connecting_to_two_access_points That'll let you connect to two wireless networks as long as they are on the same channel. I
Re: [REQ] Adding support for simultaneous wireless networks
a friend of mine has a desktop pc with 2 ethernet devices onboard and uses one to connect to his dsl modem and one to share this pppoe connection over to his xbox. being able to share a connection not only wired - wifi but also wired - wired would be nice in such situations and it can't be done with the current state. On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 2:01 PM, Jerone Young [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is not a standard use case. The fact is most consumers would have the wireless printer connected to their wifi network. I myself have a wireless printer and it connects to my wifi network, where I just access it like a standard network printer. I'm a little confused on exactly why you are connecting to your printer via ad-hoc mode, unless you do not have a wifi access point. To which once you did get one, you need to connect the printer to the access point. The only common case for this connecting to a printer wirelessly directly is via bluetooth, but this is handled by bluez and not network-manager. Also devices that do support it, handle this easily. Supporting something like this actually confuses users. How do you know which connection to get to the internet from ? .. it makes little since ... On Mon, 2008-10-27 at 00:53 -0600, Brent Newland wrote: I work at a retail store selling computers, and I can tell you that all the printer manufacturer's seem to be going wireless. Out of the latest selection of HP and Canon printers we carry, nearly all of the consumer level machines have built in wireless. Alot of people expect to be able to connect to the internet (whether it's through a wireless network, a cell phone card, a cable) and also be able to connect to their printer at the same time to print wirelessly, but that's not currently an easy thing to configure. What's even worse is if you want to connect to a wireless network while being connected to a wireless printer in ad-hoc mode. Currently, to do this you would have to use airtun-ng (this is the only program I've found which does this): http://www.aircrack-ng.org/doku.php?id=airtun-ngDokuWiki=70b54c7d04564ca6bcee0f8746f3044d#connecting_to_two_access_points That'll let you connect to two wireless networks as long as they are on the same channel. I think that these would both be excellent features to have (connect to two wireless networks with one card to load balance/access resources on both networks - useful for copying between networks as well - and easily setting up an ad-hoc connection to a printer with another connection as the primary; all via the networkmanager GUI, of course). I'm sure that in the near future there will be a lot more questions like these across the different distros. _ Store, manage and share up to 5GB with Windows Live SkyDrive. http://skydrive.live.com/welcome.aspx?provision=1?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_skydrive_102008 ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: [REQ] Adding support for simultaneous wireless networks
On Mon, 2008-10-27 at 16:37 +0100, Bjoern Martensen wrote: a friend of mine has a desktop pc with 2 ethernet devices onboard and uses one to connect to his dsl modem and one to share this pppoe connection over to his xbox. being able to share a connection not only wired - wifi but also wired - wired would be nice in such situations and it can't be done with the current state. NM 0.7 allows connection sharing between arbitrary devices. Dan On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 2:01 PM, Jerone Young [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is not a standard use case. The fact is most consumers would have the wireless printer connected to their wifi network. I myself have a wireless printer and it connects to my wifi network, where I just access it like a standard network printer. I'm a little confused on exactly why you are connecting to your printer via ad-hoc mode, unless you do not have a wifi access point. To which once you did get one, you need to connect the printer to the access point. The only common case for this connecting to a printer wirelessly directly is via bluetooth, but this is handled by bluez and not network-manager. Also devices that do support it, handle this easily. Supporting something like this actually confuses users. How do you know which connection to get to the internet from ? .. it makes little since ... On Mon, 2008-10-27 at 00:53 -0600, Brent Newland wrote: I work at a retail store selling computers, and I can tell you that all the printer manufacturer's seem to be going wireless. Out of the latest selection of HP and Canon printers we carry, nearly all of the consumer level machines have built in wireless. Alot of people expect to be able to connect to the internet (whether it's through a wireless network, a cell phone card, a cable) and also be able to connect to their printer at the same time to print wirelessly, but that's not currently an easy thing to configure. What's even worse is if you want to connect to a wireless network while being connected to a wireless printer in ad-hoc mode. Currently, to do this you would have to use airtun-ng (this is the only program I've found which does this): http://www.aircrack-ng.org/doku.php?id=airtun-ngDokuWiki=70b54c7d04564ca6bcee0f8746f3044d#connecting_to_two_access_points That'll let you connect to two wireless networks as long as they are on the same channel. I think that these would both be excellent features to have (connect to two wireless networks with one card to load balance/access resources on both networks - useful for copying between networks as well - and easily setting up an ad-hoc connection to a printer with another connection as the primary; all via the networkmanager GUI, of course). I'm sure that in the near future there will be a lot more questions like these across the different distros. _ Store, manage and share up to 5GB with Windows Live SkyDrive. http://skydrive.live.com/welcome.aspx?provision=1?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_skydrive_102008 ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: [REQ] Adding support for simultaneous wireless networks
On Mon, 2008-10-27 at 00:53 -0600, Brent Newland wrote: I work at a retail store selling computers, and I can tell you that all the printer manufacturer's seem to be going wireless. Out of the latest selection of HP and Canon printers we carry, nearly all of the consumer level machines have built in wireless. Alot of people expect to be able to connect to the internet (whether it's through a wireless network, a cell phone card, a cable) and also be able to connect to their printer at the same time to print wirelessly, but that's not currently an easy thing to configure. What's even worse is if you want to connect to a wireless network while being connected to a wireless printer in ad-hoc mode. Currently, to do this you would have to use airtun-ng (this is the only program I've found which does this): http://www.aircrack-ng.org/doku.php?id=airtun-ngDokuWiki=70b54c7d04564ca6bcee0f8746f3044d#connecting_to_two_access_points That'll let you connect to two wireless networks as long as they are on the same channel. This would be nice to have, and some drivers in Linux can do this, but it's highly dependent on the hardware and the driver situation at the moment. I don't think we can turn it on for a while. There would also need to be quite a bit of UI work going in because most people don't really care or know that you can't have one card operate on multiple channels at the same time (without major performance loss at least). Thus, the UI would have to be designed in such a way that you get alerted that you are about to break the connection to one resource if you try to switch to another resource on a different channel. Dan ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: [REQ] Adding support for simultaneous wireless networks
ah ok then. however, i think it should be a bit more clear to the user what to do. something like a 3 step wizard like bluez-gnome has now for setting up new bluetooth devices would be nice. for example something like this: 1. select the device connected to the internet 2. select the device for others to connect to, to use the shared connection 3. (optional for wifi) select encryption and then nm sets up the shared connection on the chosen device. just an idea, open for improvements and comments ;) greets, Björn On Mon, 2008-10-27 at 11:47 -0400, Dan Williams wrote: On Mon, 2008-10-27 at 16:37 +0100, Bjoern Martensen wrote: a friend of mine has a desktop pc with 2 ethernet devices onboard and uses one to connect to his dsl modem and one to share this pppoe connection over to his xbox. being able to share a connection not only wired - wifi but also wired - wired would be nice in such situations and it can't be done with the current state. NM 0.7 allows connection sharing between arbitrary devices. Dan On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 2:01 PM, Jerone Young [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is not a standard use case. The fact is most consumers would have the wireless printer connected to their wifi network. I myself have a wireless printer and it connects to my wifi network, where I just access it like a standard network printer. I'm a little confused on exactly why you are connecting to your printer via ad-hoc mode, unless you do not have a wifi access point. To which once you did get one, you need to connect the printer to the access point. The only common case for this connecting to a printer wirelessly directly is via bluetooth, but this is handled by bluez and not network-manager. Also devices that do support it, handle this easily. Supporting something like this actually confuses users. How do you know which connection to get to the internet from ? .. it makes little since ... On Mon, 2008-10-27 at 00:53 -0600, Brent Newland wrote: I work at a retail store selling computers, and I can tell you that all the printer manufacturer's seem to be going wireless. Out of the latest selection of HP and Canon printers we carry, nearly all of the consumer level machines have built in wireless. Alot of people expect to be able to connect to the internet (whether it's through a wireless network, a cell phone card, a cable) and also be able to connect to their printer at the same time to print wirelessly, but that's not currently an easy thing to configure. What's even worse is if you want to connect to a wireless network while being connected to a wireless printer in ad-hoc mode. Currently, to do this you would have to use airtun-ng (this is the only program I've found which does this): http://www.aircrack-ng.org/doku.php?id=airtun-ngDokuWiki=70b54c7d04564ca6bcee0f8746f3044d#connecting_to_two_access_points That'll let you connect to two wireless networks as long as they are on the same channel. I think that these would both be excellent features to have (connect to two wireless networks with one card to load balance/access resources on both networks - useful for copying between networks as well - and easily setting up an ad-hoc connection to a printer with another connection as the primary; all via the networkmanager GUI, of course). I'm sure that in the near future there will be a lot more questions like these across the different distros. _ Store, manage and share up to 5GB with Windows Live SkyDrive. http://skydrive.live.com/welcome.aspx?provision=1?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_skydrive_102008 ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
