Re: [newbie] Linux and Windont (was: Installation of Java JDK ...
SYMPA doesn't like me. Again trying to repost this message. -Gary- on 9/27/2000 got SYMPA error back, this seemed to be what was missing from on 9/27/2000 got SYMPA error back, this seemed to be what was missing from the postings -- resubmitting sorry if accidental duplication. -Gary- -Gary-'s comments interspersed. In a message dated 9/26/2000 7:57:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I really suspect that the future will generate distributions with far fewer programs included...and/or more along the lines of KDE2.0 where they include a specified KDE-developed suite of apps and that's it. Probably so. -Gary- I think it has to be better than it is but I'm less sure about it needing to be "better" than Microsoft. In fact, I think it's not too far from that already :-) What it lacks is hardware manufacturer driver support and that seems to be changing quickly. Linux seems to be one of those things that is hard to get set up, and after it is it works much better that Windonts. First there is the problem of everything being different (different commands, names, programs, structures) but I see the first issue, that of the difficulty of configuring the installation as being the barrier to be broken through. There may not ever be a solution for winmodems and the like. I see this as an irqsome problem, only. -Gary- One of the things I've come to realize is that much of the "simple" I see in Windows is mostly due to my familiarity with it and I think we need ot keep that in mind when comparing things. For instance, here we see lots of discussion of application software installations, setup, and execution. Suppose you know nothing of Windows. I agree again. Most people have forgotten how much time and effort and money they have spent learning Windonts. -Gary- Those niches seem to be becoming larger and larger :-) ... and Linux is the largest growing (selling?) o/s in the server market. Growth is good. I would just like to see growth of more relevance to everyone: i.e. the desktop users. That is beginning to happen. The important thing is that this growth doesn't get stalled out. I'm sure you've read the posts in newbie about it worked in Windont but I can't solve my problems in Linux (or it's too difficult) therefore Linux is no good, or therefore I'm giving up on Linux. This is someone who was willing to try something new and different, just the people we need to grow, and we lost them. One of the related problems is that help for this person comes down to you and me, and I am only able to help a little at this point. Others help. But there is noplace one can go for a difinitive answer. Therein lies the problem for Linux, even though it is almost as true for Windows. In Windonts case the answer is a driver or wipe and reload the o/s (standard operating procedure), although with much excuse making and finger pointing along the way. But when people fail with Windows they feel that they have to accept the (incompatability, nonfunctionality, or whatever). But then there's this new machine with the new and improved version of Windont.. And people really do buy, or occasionally they sell out. -Gary- Not in my opinion. Corel is 1) barking up the wrong Linux tree and 2) trying to oversimplify the installation which dumbs down Linux and ends up shooting themselves in the foot as it won't install on many platforms. I was VERY disappointed in Corel's distribution because it felt crippled to me. But -- How is the new exille from Windont going to feel about it? The problem I see here is the clout Corel carries because of "brand recognition" phenomenon. They don't know what Linux is capable of so they won't miss First of all it has to work. The bells and whistles come a bit later. -Gary- Cheers --- Larry I agree with the rest of your posting. Thanks, you put things well. -Gary-
Re: [newbie] Linux and Windont (was: Installation of Java JDK ...
Linux seems to be one of those things that is hard to get set up, and after it is it works much better that Windonts. First there is the problem of Yep...I guess my view is that with another year of the current efforts to address that installation stuff, this isn't going to be a problem. and Linux is the largest growing (selling?) o/s in the server market. Growth is good. I would just like to see growth of more relevance to everyone: i.e. the desktop users. That is beginning to happen. The The server profile, mostly due to Internet press, is probably one of the key things that will generate interest by desktop types. I'm sure you've read the posts in newbie about it worked in Windont but I can't solve my problems in Linux (or it's too difficult) therefore Linux is no good, or therefore I'm giving up on Linux. This is someone who was willing to try something new and different, just the people we need to grow, and we lost them. While you're right, I wonder if this matters that much. Linux movement onto desktops is going to be driven by corporations, not guys playing Quake. If, in good conscience, a system guy providing support for a company with a bunch of desktop machines can propose a less expense, more powerful solution to computing needs, Linux moves onto desktops hundreds at a time. Maybe more important, this trickles from office to home. One of the related problems is that help for this person comes down to you and me, and I am only able to help a little at this point. Others help. True, but this is always the problem with minority products. As more and more Linux users are generated, there will be more and more help. People get their help for Windows from Windows users. There's just a lot of them :-) But there is noplace one can go for a difinitive answer. Therein lies the problem for Linux, even though it is almost as true for Windows. In Windonts case the answer is a driver or wipe and reload the o/s (standard operating Was on the phone last night with a friend of mine who's just gotten DSL and needed help getting it set up on his Windows box. I don't think it's any different except for two things. The first is that the driver availability is currently much better for Windows than Linux. Also, there are more people to turn to for help. Both of those things will change with time. In truth, the Linux support community is pretty darn deep in my opinion. The web has made this possible, with all the how-to stuff available, newsgroups like this one, etc. But -- How is the new exille from Windont going to feel about it? The I don't know the answer to that except to say that Corel's got problems with their installation as they've just made it too "simple." If you've got anything that's out of the ordinary you lose. For instance, all distributions have video conflicts with some systems. With Corel, however, if your video isn't setup, you're left with a COMPLETELY non-functional system and there's nothing included that would direct you to Xconfigurator or anything else. But other than that, a newbie who doesn't know any better might be very happy with CorelLinux/WP. And that's not a bad thing in my view. In fact that's exactly what I've advocated in other msgs here. There needs to be a setup such that Linux is restricted somewhat to provide a simpler set of challenges for a new user. Once they're comfortable working with it with their hands tied, they could start unstrapping things and unleashing the power. One of the big challenges to this is how to word the marketing/manual/installations for such things as Linux has the ability. problem I see here is the clout Corel carries because of "brand recognition" phenomenon. They don't know what Linux is capable of so they won't miss Then again, I'd rather have stock in Red Hat than Corel right now. Maybe that's an indication of how things are going. Cheers --- Larry
