Re: [newbie] Usability [was: Re: Mandrake Financial Problems]
On Tuesday 21 January 2003 00:17, Stephen Kuhn wrote: On Tue, 2003-01-21 at 11:02, Chuck Burns wrote: On Mon, January 20 2003 5:50 pm, Stephen Kuhn wrote: *snip* (And she's a soon-to-be linux user, ya reckon Chuck?) She uses it all the time, at my house, I just havent yet convinced her to forgoe her ill-begotten ways, and evil tendencencies. Here's how I do it at home - the 10 easy steps to converting a Windows user into a Linux user: 1.) Give them a bare, blank, un-FDISK'ed drive, an 8mb ATI RagePro3D AGP card, a motherboard with onboard sound (preferably a CMI based chipset), a Logitech Internet keyboard, an off-the-shelf-no-name optical wheelmouse, a PCI based Rockwell HCF/HCS/HST 56k vdf modem without a name brand on the box, a boot CD for WindowsME, and a blessing. 2.) On day two, add an SB-Live! sound card and let them sort it out. 3.) On day four, since they can't get the drivers working properly, give them Win2k instead. 4.) On day four, give them Win98SE and a blessing after they've spent six hours trying to get Win2k working properly with anything. 5.) On day five, removed the modem and reinstall the modem. 6.) Let them look constantly over your should as you happily surf, do email, watch DVD's, play games, print reports and do work - all on a machine that hasn't been rebooted ONCE in the past two weeks. 7.) After they get on the net and have three registry problems within the first three hours of being on the net, and after they've watched the system performance drop 50% after installing an antivirus program, constantly elaborate on the bug free environment of linux. Send them klez for giggles and grins 8.) Since they've not been able to get all the drivers straight for all the equipment and system performance is horribly slow, recommend a complete reinstallation of Win98SE and keep the laughter to yourself. You lucky man, you! I never get to do more than point 8. By then they've either gone completely off their rocker or are starting to foam at the mouth. What really kills 'm is when they need to get on to the internet for their nifty modem's driver. =:o) Every reboot they get asked again and again and again..=:oD Maybe the Aussies do have more stamina after all. Good Luck, HarM Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Usability [was: Re: Mandrake Financial Problems]
On Tue, 2003-01-21 at 19:33, H.J.Bathoorn wrote: You lucky man, you! I never get to do more than point 8. By then they've either gone completely off their rocker or are starting to foam at the mouth. What really kills 'm is when they need to get on to the internet for their nifty modem's driver. =:o) Every reboot they get asked again and again and again..=:oD Maybe the Aussies do have more stamina after all. Good Luck, HarM Ex-yank, New-Aussie. Besides, I think it has something to do with living in the Southern Hemisphere and quitting drinking. I've a greater sense of patience nowadays than I've ever had before...(not according to my wife, though - same with the stamina bit) (g) -- Tue Jan 21 19:45:00 EST 2003 7:45pm up 5 days, 5:28, 6 users, load average: 0.16, 0.34, 0.22 -- |____ | kuhn media australia| | / ,, /| |'-. | http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | |=| | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' | stephen kuhn| | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | |/ ._/ || | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]| | |'. `\ | | |icq: 5483808 | | ;/ / | | | | | smk ) /_/| |.---.| | mobile: 0410-728-389| | ' `-`' | Berkeley, New South Wales, AU | -- linux user:267497 * RH 8.0 * PC/Mac/Linux/Networking/Consulting -- It was nice of you to let me reattach your arm. --Zoidber Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Usability [was: Re: Mandrake Financial Problems]
On Monday 20 Jan 2003 11:30 pm, Chuck Burns wrote: On Mon, January 20 2003 5:21 pm, robin wrote: *super.snip* I see the detoxification process is complete. Maybe we should have a 12-step program for Windows dependency. It should start with everyone getting up and saying My name is ..., and I'm a Windows user. I must admit I haven't kicked the habit completely - I still tell myself Well just one little reboot into Windows won't hurt. Sir Robin *snip* Well.. If I can't do it in Linux, I don't need to do it. I have 3 computers, one of which is a laptop, and none of them even have wine, much less any installed windows at all. The only computer I use that has windows is my fiancee's. Sorry, but your needs then are much less than mine. There are a few applications for which linux can not yet offer a good solution. I believe it will come, but it is not yet there. Anne -- Registered Linux User No.293302 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Usability [was: Re: Mandrake Financial Problems]
On Tuesday 21 Jan 2003 3:55 am, Kesav Tadimeti wrote: Hi All, I believe, windows 2000,is a relatively stable OS for desktop uses. I use it at work, and it does not need a reboot as often as NT 4.0 used to. I found W2K relatively stable, but drivers were as big a problem as linux drivers (much worse than they are now, in both systems) and much of my existing software wouldn't run. Eventually it crashed so drastically that it wouldn't even allow a re-install. Anne -- Registered Linux User No.293302 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Usability [was: Re: Mandrake Financial Problems]
Stephen Kuhn wrote: On Tue, 2003-01-21 at 14:55, Kesav Tadimeti wrote: Hi All, I believe, windows 2000,is a relatively stable OS for desktop uses. I use it at work, and it does not need a reboot as often as NT 4.0 used to. BTW, Yesterday's newspaper (here in New Delhi) carried an ad from Microsoft claiming that it has the most stable secure Server OS (Windows 2000 Datacentre edition) around. They also claim that compared to UNIX, the TCO is 49% less and 22% less compared to Linux. At the end of day, it is an IT manager who, being ignorant of real issues, makes purchase decisions, so that he doesn't get singled out for following the masses. Tadimeti Kesav How absolutely true. I'm rather thankful that alot of managers that I have worked either side-by-side with, or directly under have had open minds, and have had the ability to see in a bigger picture - with tight budgets and less and less manpower, they had to make some decisions that could have gone a Microsoft way, but ended up going the way of least work involved, and if it works really well, we don't tell. In the past I was more than happy to setup and install an OS/2 server for a group of telecom engineers that DEMANDED an NT box - back when NT 4.0 wasn't really as stable as MS claimed - the box still lives and serves files today - and that was in 1997 - very few reboots, very few changes made to the box. Just works. At Samsung Telecom America in Richardson, Tx., I helped to install RH5 boxes to ease the DNS burden on the network - one per floor and one in the warehouse in Plano - management - higher management - not the IT department, literally demanded that all of that be done on NT, but when faced with purchasing 2 $15,000 boxes AND the software, they choose to let us, the IT department, use 486's w/ RH5 that were already in stock and on hand (Samsung builds computers, remember) and the job was completed in two days time by two guys. I've seen how some management is coerced and hornswaggled into heavy purchases - especially MS purchases, but at the end of the day (a real working day, not a 9 to 5 bankers day) it's what works that SHOULD be chosen - and I do say SHOULD. I find it rather strange that there are times where upper management makes these types of decisions for entire IT infrastructures - based on either hearsay or just on advertisement - yet, they're the ones that whinge the loudest when it takes a single tech all day to fix one damn computer running a Microsoft product...but they're the ones that made the decision in the first place... When I was at Siemens, most support calls came from NT and from Windows98. We had 50+ Sun workstations - in the time I was there, I had one call on a Sun running Solaris - and it was to connect a new Sun box to the network. 5 minute job - up, running, no probs. Yet, about six months later, one of the managers (soon-to-be-ex-manager) wanted to move all the engineers on the Sun boxes to NT 4.0 on 300GL IBM machines...upper management ALMOST went for it (and it would have been a very pricey purchase), until we showed them our support reports on the Sun workstations. Nicht NT! (g) It's sad that some people in such positions have to be yanked in a direction that is going to cost more money and time in the long run - but I guess that's the way that the world goes round...sad but true. In your experience is it still the case, I mean you mention NT servers were unreliable as against linux server boxes. I have no personal experience whatsoever. John -- John Richard Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Usability [was: Re: Mandrake Financial Problems]
On Monday 20 January 2003 05:17 pm, Stephen Kuhn wrote: snip Send them klez for giggles and grins /snip Stephen, please send me one (off-list) to play with. Kaj Haulrich. === Powered by Linux- Mandrake 9.0 Registered Linux user # 214073 at http://counter.li.org Source : my 100 % Microsoft-free personal computer. === Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Usability [was: Re: Mandrake Financial Problems]
On Tue, 2003-01-21 at 21:05, John Richard Smith wrote: In your experience is it still the case, I mean you mention NT servers were unreliable as against linux server boxes. I have no personal experience whatsoever. John Let's put it this way - I always setup a scheduled task on an NT box so that it reboots at least once per week. I don't do it for Linux, and didn't do it for OS/2. I have yet to meet an NT box that hasn't crashed under stress. -- Wed, 22 Jan 2003 05:50:00 +1100 5:50am up 5 days, 15:33, 5 users, load average: 0.13, 0.54, 0.57 -- |____ | kuhn media australia| | / ,, /| |'-. | http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | |=| | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' | stephen kuhn| | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | |/ ._/ || | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]| | |'. `\ | | |icq: 5483808 | | ;/ / | | | | | smk ) /_/| |.---.| | mobile: 0410-728-389| | ' `-`' | Berkeley, New South Wales, AU | -- linux user:267497 * RH 8.0 * PC/Mac/Linux/Networking/Consulting -- At no time is freedom of speech more precious than when a man hits his thumb with a hammer. -- Marshall Lumsden Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Usability [was: Re: Mandrake Financial Problems]
Stephen Kuhn wrote: On Tue, 2003-01-21 at 21:05, John Richard Smith wrote: In your experience is it still the case, I mean you mention NT servers were unreliable as against linux server boxes. I have no personal experience whatsoever. John Let's put it this way - I always setup a scheduled task on an NT box so that it reboots at least once per week. I don't do it for Linux, and didn't do it for OS/2. I have yet to meet an NT box that hasn't crashed under stress. yes, I guess so.After all many server systems run on linux software.It cannot all be due to money. I just wondered how much file systems had to do with this, because for instance , while my w2k on ntfs runs a whole lot more stable than W98 on vfat neither are as stable as any linux file system, even good old ext2. Maybe I'm becoming a might prejudiced but that is how it seems to me. I just wondered whether the same might also hold true in regard to commercial server systems, that's all. John -- John Richard Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Usability [was: Re: Mandrake Financial Problems]
Stephen Kuhn wrote: On Wed, 2003-01-22 at 07:08, John Richard Smith wrote: yes, I guess so.After all many server systems run on linux software.It cannot all be due to money. I just wondered how much file systems had to do with this, because for instance , while my w2k on ntfs runs a whole lot more stable than W98 on vfat neither are as stable as any linux file system, even good old ext2. Maybe I'm becoming a might prejudiced but that is how it seems to me. I just wondered whether the same might also hold true in regard to commercial server systems, that's all. John Here's a for instance for ya. Now, remember that linux and unix are basically the same - so's not to cloud the air: HP server runing HPUX (HP Unix) - server has 6 RAID arrays with 5 drives per array @ 9gb per drive. Being that permissions are set by the unix filesystem, it wasn't a matter whether the client workstations were NTFS, FAT, VFAT, HPFS or Mac. This was (maybe still is) for the sole purpose of being a file server (it was other things, but management didn't know about that). From 1996 through to 2000, the only thing I ever heard when sour was the occasional drive - and that was a matter of yanking out one and slapping in a new one...beautiful machine it was...and fast. Nary a problem. So it's the way the software is constructed and written that makes the real difference ? This HPUX had 6 raid arrays each had 5 drives, making 30 total and whose software was on the unix system , I mean there are numerous server systems I think. As I say I know nothing, not having had the opportunity to learn, but the curious side of my nature makes me want to enquire. I am guessing that these were largely internal server systems with a fair share of external connections . Not simply 6 seperate server systems connected to the net. Some bigtime organisation, or joint network like a market traders system. Much of it internal on LANS etc etc. Hewlet packard hardware with some flavour of unix software. It speaks for itself. Then I walk into my doctors sergery, a large one with 10 gp's and note he is running his paients records on some flavour of M$ NT terminals fitted out with some proprietary software custome made windowing system all linked together with what I am guessing is a windblows internal server box of some sort.I didn't like to ask him how reliable it was, as he felt proud of the modern setup he had got. John -- John Richard Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Usability [was: Re: Mandrake Financial Problems]
On Monday 20 January 2003 03:30 pm, you wrote: On Mon, January 20 2003 5:21 pm, robin wrote: *super.snip* I see the detoxification process is complete. Maybe we should have a 12-step program for Windows dependency. It should start with everyone getting up and saying My name is ..., and I'm a Windows user. I must admit I haven't kicked the habit completely - I still tell myself Well just one little reboot into Windows won't hurt. Sir Robin *snip* Well.. If I can't do it in Linux, I don't need to do it. I have 3 computers, one of which is a lapop, and none of them even have wine, much less any installed windows at all. The only computer I use that has windows is my fiancee's. According to this Reg article from Monday, if MS has it's way we'll be listening to music only on MS products because we'll have not choice. http://212.100.234.54/content/4/28938.html e Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
[newbie] Usability [was: Re: Mandrake Financial Problems]
walt wrote: On Mon, 2003-01-20 at 13:05, daRcmaTTeR wrote: On Wed, 15 Jan 2003, Colin McElhatton wrote: The single BIGGEST problem for end user to this day remains being able to find the information that will get them going and *their* willingness to avail themselves of that information and learn it. simply dumbing down the interface and the core processes of the system will _never_ make a better, more usable system. It only makes one weaker and far less stable. I believe windows is perfect proof of this. Like Walt, I respectfully disagree. The reason Windows is buggy (to put it mildly) is not that they dumbed down the interface (which is no easier to use than any other popular GUI I know of) but that they thought that if they made a pretty, easy-to-use GUI, they could forget about the kerbnel (or whatever they call kernels in Microstan). As Bill Gates himself said, If you can't make it good, make it look good. The rot set in before Windows came out - the reason DOS got it's name was that it was a slightly altered version of an OS called QDOS, which stood for Quick and Dirty Operating System. IMHO, Mandrake is a good example of how to make things easy without system sacrifices. In particular, it has the easiest installation and configuration software I know of. But it is this dumbing down that will sell linux (and this is a shame!!!) ..people do not want to do anything but turn on a computer and have everything work the first time, every time. That's why there are Macintoshes. I've lost track of the number of people to whom I've said If you're not heavily into games and want a computer that just works, shell out the extra money for a Macintosh (I'm not a traitor to the cause - I just don't want computer illiterates trying to use Linux then dissing it because they screw up with Linux just as much as they did with Linux). Windows - designed for dummies by dummies Linux - designed for clever people by clever people Macintosh - designed for dummies by clever people Or as Dave Barry put it: The other type of computer is the 'Apple', which I do not recommend, as it is a New Age wussorama computer that you basically just plug in and use. Actually, in a strange kind of way, I'm glad IBM gave the contract for developing a PC-compatible operating system to a bunch of long-haired ne'er-do-wells like Microsoft. Otherwise, Apple might have ruled the desktop world, and we'd be faced with a hardware monopoly as well as a software monopoly. Linux has come a long way since I first tried it 5 years ago. I do not have everything working properly yet but I know that I will because I am willing to do some research and ask questions. That's why _you_ don't need to spend the extra money for a Mac! I've had my share of problems with Linux, just as I did with Windows. The difference is that when I finally fixed a problem in Windows, I still had very little idea about what was going on (incidentally I used to have a book called something like Windows 95 Bugs, and it was a looong book). When I fix a problem in Linux - or even sometimes when I fail to fix it - I usually learn something useful. I have winxp on another hard drive but haven't used it for about a week or so now. (I actually thought that I couldn't live without it, LOL) I see the detoxification process is complete. Maybe we should have a 12-step program for Windows dependency. It should start with everyone getting up and saying My name is ..., and I'm a Windows user. I must admit I haven't kicked the habit completely - I still tell myself Well just one little reboot into Windows won't hurt. I recently met a colleague who is vaguely familiar with Linux, but uses Windows XP because he has a lot of legit Windows software he's paid for (unusual in this country) and wants to get his money's worth. That's like people who go to the cinema, don't like the film, but stay until the end because they've paid for their tickets. Sir Robin -- Difficulty is a coin which the learned conjure with so as not to reveal the vanity of their studies. - Montaigne Robin Turner IDMYO Bilkent Univeritesi Ankara 06533 Turkey www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Usability [was: Re: Mandrake Financial Problems]
On Mon, January 20 2003 5:21 pm, robin wrote: *super.snip* I see the detoxification process is complete. Maybe we should have a 12-step program for Windows dependency. It should start with everyone getting up and saying My name is ..., and I'm a Windows user. I must admit I haven't kicked the habit completely - I still tell myself Well just one little reboot into Windows won't hurt. Sir Robin *snip* Well.. If I can't do it in Linux, I don't need to do it. I have 3 computers, one of which is a laptop, and none of them even have wine, much less any installed windows at all. The only computer I use that has windows is my fiancee's. -- Chuck Burns, Jr [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---==--- Cogito ergo I'm right and you're wrong. -- Blair Houghton Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Usability [was: Re: Mandrake Financial Problems]
On Tue, 2003-01-21 at 10:30, Chuck Burns wrote: On Mon, January 20 2003 5:21 pm, robin wrote: *super.snip* I see the detoxification process is complete. Maybe we should have a 12-step program for Windows dependency. It should start with everyone getting up and saying My name is ..., and I'm a Windows user. I must admit I haven't kicked the habit completely - I still tell myself Well just one little reboot into Windows won't hurt. Sir Robin *snip* Well.. If I can't do it in Linux, I don't need to do it. I have 3 computers, one of which is a laptop, and none of them even have wine, much less any installed windows at all. The only computer I use that has windows is my fiancee's. (And she's a soon-to-be linux user, ya reckon Chuck?) -- Tue Jan 21 10:45:00 EST 2003 10:45am up 4 days, 20:28, 5 users, load average: 0.12, 0.16, 0.24 -- |____ | kuhn media australia| | / ,, /| |'-. | http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | |=| | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' | stephen kuhn| | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | |/ ._/ || | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]| | |'. `\ | | |icq: 5483808 | | ;/ / | | | | | smk ) /_/| |.---.| | mobile: 0410-728-389| | ' `-`' | Berkeley, New South Wales, AU | -- linux user:267497 * RH 8.0 * PC/Mac/Linux/Networking/Consulting -- He felt that the darkness was full of unimaginable horrors - and the trouble with unimaginable horrors was that they were only too easy to imagine... (The Light Fantastic) Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Usability [was: Re: Mandrake Financial Problems]
On Tue, 2003-01-21 at 11:02, Chuck Burns wrote: On Mon, January 20 2003 5:50 pm, Stephen Kuhn wrote: *snip* (And she's a soon-to-be linux user, ya reckon Chuck?) She uses it all the time, at my house, I just havent yet convinced her to forgoe her ill-begotten ways, and evil tendencencies. Here's how I do it at home - the 10 easy steps to converting a Windows user into a Linux user: 1.) Give them a bare, blank, un-FDISK'ed drive, an 8mb ATI RagePro3D AGP card, a motherboard with onboard sound (preferably a CMI based chipset), a Logitech Internet keyboard, an off-the-shelf-no-name optical wheelmouse, a PCI based Rockwell HCF/HCS/HST 56k vdf modem without a name brand on the box, a boot CD for WindowsME, and a blessing. 2.) On day two, add an SB-Live! sound card and let them sort it out. 3.) On day four, since they can't get the drivers working properly, give them Win2k instead. 4.) On day four, give them Win98SE and a blessing after they've spent six hours trying to get Win2k working properly with anything. 5.) On day five, removed the modem and reinstall the modem. 6.) Let them look constantly over your should as you happily surf, do email, watch DVD's, play games, print reports and do work - all on a machine that hasn't been rebooted ONCE in the past two weeks. 7.) After they get on the net and have three registry problems within the first three hours of being on the net, and after they've watched the system performance drop 50% after installing an antivirus program, constantly elaborate on the bug free environment of linux. Send them klez for giggles and grins 8.) Since they've not been able to get all the drivers straight for all the equipment and system performance is horribly slow, recommend a complete reinstallation of Win98SE and keep the laughter to yourself. 9.) Since they've gotten near the madness level, give them XP to install. 10.) After XP bombs out doing either a straight install or an upgrade install, hand them your (put your distro name here) boot CD. -- Tue Jan 21 11:05:00 EST 2003 11:05am up 4 days, 20:48, 5 users, load average: 0.21, 0.16, 0.18 -- |____ | kuhn media australia| | / ,, /| |'-. | http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | |=| | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' | stephen kuhn| | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | |/ ._/ || | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]| | |'. `\ | | |icq: 5483808 | | ;/ / | | | | | smk ) /_/| |.---.| | mobile: 0410-728-389| | ' `-`' | Berkeley, New South Wales, AU | -- linux user:267497 * RH 8.0 * PC/Mac/Linux/Networking/Consulting -- I'm sure that VMS is completely documented, I just haven't found the right manual yet. I've been working my way through the manuals in the document library and I'm half way through the second cabinet, (3 shelves to go), so I should find what I'm looking for by mid May. I hope I can remember what it was by the time I find it. I had this idea for a new horror film, VMS Manuals from Hell or maybe The Paper Chase : IBM vs. DEC. It's based on Hitchcock's The Birds, except that it's centered around a programmer who is attacked by a swarm of binder pages with an index number and the single line This page intentionally left blank. -- Alex Crain Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] Usability [was: Re: Mandrake Financial Problems]
On Monday 20 January 2003 05:17 pm, Stephen Kuhn wrote: On Tue, 2003-01-21 at 11:02, Chuck Burns wrote: On Mon, January 20 2003 5:50 pm, Stephen Kuhn wrote: *snip* (And she's a soon-to-be linux user, ya reckon Chuck?) She uses it all the time, at my house, I just havent yet convinced her to forgoe her ill-begotten ways, and evil tendencencies. Here's how I do it at home - the 10 easy steps to converting a Windows user into a Linux user: 1.) Give them a bare, blank, un-FDISK'ed drive, an 8mb ATI RagePro3D AGP card, a motherboard with onboard sound (preferably a CMI based chipset), a Logitech Internet keyboard, an off-the-shelf-no-name optical wheelmouse, a PCI based Rockwell HCF/HCS/HST 56k vdf modem without a name brand on the box, a boot CD for WindowsME, and a blessing. 2.) On day two, add an SB-Live! sound card and let them sort it out. 3.) On day four, since they can't get the drivers working properly, give them Win2k instead. 4.) On day four, give them Win98SE and a blessing after they've spent six hours trying to get Win2k working properly with anything. 5.) On day five, removed the modem and reinstall the modem. 6.) Let them look constantly over your should as you happily surf, do email, watch DVD's, play games, print reports and do work - all on a machine that hasn't been rebooted ONCE in the past two weeks. 7.) After they get on the net and have three registry problems within the first three hours of being on the net, and after they've watched the system performance drop 50% after installing an antivirus program, constantly elaborate on the bug free environment of linux. Send them klez for giggles and grins 8.) Since they've not been able to get all the drivers straight for all the equipment and system performance is horribly slow, recommend a complete reinstallation of Win98SE and keep the laughter to yourself. 9.) Since they've gotten near the madness level, give them XP to install. 10.) After XP bombs out doing either a straight install or an upgrade install, hand them your (put your distro name here) boot CD. I'm back on my chair now. I still have a headache and sore gut from laughing so hard, but I'll be OK. I thought I was the only one that did crap such as that to friends and family. You evil man you. :-) Regards; -- Charlie Edmonton,AB,Canada Registered user 244963 http://counter.li.org I THINK THERE SHOULD BE SOMETHING in science called the reindeer effect. I don't know what it would be, but I think it'd be good to hear someone say, Gentlemen, what we have here is a terrifying example of the reindeer effect. -- Jack Handley, The New Mexican, 1988. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] Usability [was: Re: Mandrake Financial Problems]
On Tue, 2003-01-21 at 14:55, Kesav Tadimeti wrote: Hi All, I believe, windows 2000,is a relatively stable OS for desktop uses. I use it at work, and it does not need a reboot as often as NT 4.0 used to. BTW, Yesterday's newspaper (here in New Delhi) carried an ad from Microsoft claiming that it has the most stable secure Server OS (Windows 2000 Datacentre edition) around. They also claim that compared to UNIX, the TCO is 49% less and 22% less compared to Linux. At the end of day, it is an IT manager who, being ignorant of real issues, makes purchase decisions, so that he doesn't get singled out for following the masses. Tadimeti Kesav How absolutely true. I'm rather thankful that alot of managers that I have worked either side-by-side with, or directly under have had open minds, and have had the ability to see in a bigger picture - with tight budgets and less and less manpower, they had to make some decisions that could have gone a Microsoft way, but ended up going the way of least work involved, and if it works really well, we don't tell. In the past I was more than happy to setup and install an OS/2 server for a group of telecom engineers that DEMANDED an NT box - back when NT 4.0 wasn't really as stable as MS claimed - the box still lives and serves files today - and that was in 1997 - very few reboots, very few changes made to the box. Just works. At Samsung Telecom America in Richardson, Tx., I helped to install RH5 boxes to ease the DNS burden on the network - one per floor and one in the warehouse in Plano - management - higher management - not the IT department, literally demanded that all of that be done on NT, but when faced with purchasing 2 $15,000 boxes AND the software, they choose to let us, the IT department, use 486's w/ RH5 that were already in stock and on hand (Samsung builds computers, remember) and the job was completed in two days time by two guys. I've seen how some management is coerced and hornswaggled into heavy purchases - especially MS purchases, but at the end of the day (a real working day, not a 9 to 5 bankers day) it's what works that SHOULD be chosen - and I do say SHOULD. I find it rather strange that there are times where upper management makes these types of decisions for entire IT infrastructures - based on either hearsay or just on advertisement - yet, they're the ones that whinge the loudest when it takes a single tech all day to fix one damn computer running a Microsoft product...but they're the ones that made the decision in the first place... When I was at Siemens, most support calls came from NT and from Windows98. We had 50+ Sun workstations - in the time I was there, I had one call on a Sun running Solaris - and it was to connect a new Sun box to the network. 5 minute job - up, running, no probs. Yet, about six months later, one of the managers (soon-to-be-ex-manager) wanted to move all the engineers on the Sun boxes to NT 4.0 on 300GL IBM machines...upper management ALMOST went for it (and it would have been a very pricey purchase), until we showed them our support reports on the Sun workstations. Nicht NT! (g) It's sad that some people in such positions have to be yanked in a direction that is going to cost more money and time in the long run - but I guess that's the way that the world goes round...sad but true. -- Stephen Kuhn [EMAIL PROTECTED] Kuhn Media Australia Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
