I can see that this may get out of hand. I just realized that Mr. Curtis Re-posted his comments from another thread to this one because people were ignoring him. For the sake of the list I ask that we not encourage this angry teenager with more replies. I replied to him below off list because this is precisely where all our comments on the subject belong-off list. I remind everyone that this is a linux help list , not a self help list. (Or political/moral discussion list) If you have comments for Mr. Curtis or myself, please respond privately off-list. To Mr. Curtis, please refrain from using this list as a political forum. There are more appropriate newsgroups for your Robin Hood-ish agenda. ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: Re: [newbie] Linux, Borders, and social consciousness Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 08:40:07 -0400 From: jennifer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Isaac Curtis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Notice I am replying only to you and not the list. I do not believe your musings of such attitude and malformed jugdement are worthy of this list. Nor do they belong here. The only thing in your comments thus far the has anything to do with linux is that you stole a linux book. This list should not be used for advertising your anti-capitalism beliefs. It is a linux help list. Per your comments, I will only say this. One, karma is not an act of God as you mistakenly imply. Two, there is a minimum wage law in this country which garantees all workers a "living wage". If you do not believe this wage is appropriate, you should redirect your efforts toward the goverment and try to create *positive* change. So far, the only consequence of your actions are price jacks for people like yourself. No wonder you can't afford the books. Oh, as a side note, you infer that your community has such a demand for books that they have a need for 5 bookstores, only one of which is a mom and pop shop that you have no problem supporting. Again, perhaps you should redirect your efforts and create positive change by helping THEM meet the consumption demands the community. Ask them to special order your books. Help them set up a website. They obviously could use product suggestions for the community so that people will buy from them instead of Borders. If they don't carry the products, it is their own fault that Borders is taking over the town. On Thursday 30 August 2001 03:21, Isaac Curtis wrote: > jennifer wrote: > > On Wednesday 29 August 2001 17:09, Isaac Curtis wrote: > >>This is a bottom-posted new thread, I encourage anyone interested to > >>please skim the quote for context before reading below. > >> > >> > >> > >>(from the thread Re: [newbie] kde2.2 broke Konqueror Flash plugin) > >> > >>Ron Bouwhuis wrote: > >>--- Isaac Curtis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> > >><SNIP>. Either buy/order them from a locally owned > >>bookstore or, if you don't have the hefty $75 combined price tag, take > >>the five-finger discount at the nearest Borders (the place is less > >>secure than Windows ME) and buy a few magazines back at your hometown > >>shop to support local business. <SNIP> > >> > >> > >>What the hell is a five-finger discount? > >> > >>I *HOPE* you mean you go to Borders, buy a coffee and > >>maybe a pastry, sit down in one of those lovely corner > >>sofas and read the excellent Linux references you > >>mention (careful not to get sticky fingers on the > >>pages). You then write notes to yourself on a pad and > >>put the book back on the shelf when you're done. > >>Regards, > >>Ron. > >> > >> > >>Dear Ron, > >> > >>Borders ran four of five local bookstores out of my hometown. Borders > >>bookstores all across the country have illegally interfered with union > >>organzing within my union and others. Borders pays their workers a > >>lousy wage so that ignorant high-brow yuppies can come in and get their > >>books for a few bucks less than they could at the shop that has been in > >>their community for three generations. I will not pay for a book from > >>that store. > >> > >>I am on a very tight budget and can occasionally afford a tech magazine > >>or some cd-r's on which to burn software and the latest downloads. When > >>I purchase these things I get them from local business and support the > >>people that have been supporting my community since before I was born. > >>When I need something I can't get from local business, either because of > >>price or because they aren't able to get it shipped within a month, I > >>will go to Borders and take it. When I have to resort to that, I make a > >>point of spending as much as I can afford at a local bookstore. > >> > >>Last week I picked up "Learning the Bash Shell" and "DNS and Bind" for > >>free from Borders, so I went to a local store in downtown and bought two > >>history books and a fiction book which I donated to my local public > >>library. I actually spent more on the donated books than I would have > >>on the ones from Borders, but I am comfortable with that decision > >>because what I did supported my community and helped strike a(n > >>admittedly small) blow at Borders and everything it stands for. > >> > >>I am not suggesting we all go on a stealing spree from Borders, but > >>rather that we support our local businesses. If we can't get what we > >>need locally, than we should take it for free from our local Big Box > >>Store (Borders, Barnes & Noble, etc) and find a way to redirect the > >>privilege we enjoyed of a free book into a way of supporting the local > >>community. This isn't your only option, you could go to your local > >>public library and ask them to order a copy to beef up their tech > >>section. (If they don't have money for it you could steal *two* copies > >>from Borders and donate one of them...) You could get a friend to buy > >>it from a locally-owned store out of state and mail it to you, and > >>return the favor with an equally priced book they couldn't find in their > >>area. > >> > >>The point isn't stealing, the point is supporting our local communities > >>by supporting our local businesses. Mutlinational corporations don't > >>care about your community, they don't care about your needs, and they > >>don't care about you. They care about their bottom line. This is the > >>same thing that has given us Wal-Mart, McDonald's, and Microsoft. To > >>copy your syntax a little bit... > >> > >>I *HOPE* that you, as a Linux supporter, would be able to make the > >>connection between why Microsoft is evil and why Borders is evil. > >>Microsoft is not just a lousy operating system, it is a morally corrupt > >>institution. > >> > >>I am not sure if stealing is right, but I know that buying from Borders > >>is wrong. > >> > >>Against Capital and State, > >>Isaac > >> > >> > >> > >>"Necessity knows no law, and the starving man has a natural right to a > >>share of his neighbor's bread. Ask for work. If they do not give you > >>work, ask for bread. If they do not give you work or bread, then take > >>bread." > >> > >> - Emma Goldman > >>www.anarchistfaq.org > >>www.infoshop.org/faq > >> > >>(I realize this qoute is not relevant to stealing a Linux book from > >>Borders. It is, however, another angle of opening people's minds to why > >>stealing is, if not right, certainly less wrong than other ills of this > >>world.) > > > > ---------------------------------------- > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; name="message.footer" > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > Content-Description: > > ---------------------------------------- > > You have go to be kidding me! > > > > I am so happy that I believe in karma after reading this. > > Karma? Come on... I'm not gonna have lightning strike me because I > lifted a $40 book from Borders. I'm sure lightning can find much better > targets in the people that support clothes made in sweatshops (Nike, > Gap, Abercrombie & Fitch) or even people who support union-busting > companies like Borders that refuse to pay their workers a living wage > and rely almost entirely on part-time workers that are not eligible to > receive benefits. I'd advise you to steer clear of open windows next > time weather gets ugly. > > Isaac > > > > PS: can't hurt to plan ahead... www.weatherchannel.com > > (that was a joke to try to lighten up what could very easily become an > ugly debate, please don't misinterpret it!) ---------------------------------------- Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; name="message.footer" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Description: ---------------------------------------- -- Jennifer #221463 Yahoo IM: jlynn2k #include <wisdom.h> void ignorance (it offers no value) ------------------------------------------------------- -- Jennifer #221463 Yahoo IM: jlynn2k #include <wisdom.h> void ignorance (it offers no value)
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