OK, but let's look at it this way: If a coder creates something that he'd wanted to fool with & produces a decent product, has the integrity to actually work out the bugs & apply her/himself to the project, knowing only that the pay is in others using this product, it will, eventually, be noticed by more than those who choose to use it while in alpha & beta. Once noticed, along with more work to show, the coder in question can get work as would any Web designer who has something to show -- whether that Web designer made any money on the projects she/he shows to prospective employers. All benefit from open source -- it's just not as apparent as the American "get rich quick" model of "success". Coders get jobs or money to continue both commercial as well as personal &/or open source projects; business by hiring experienced, dedicated (though I'm known for boldly complaining that many coders have no dedication), & integrity (another thing I'm known to complain about in coders); users by having more to work with. Having a look at Eric Raymond's _The Cathedral and the Bazaar_ will illucidate the whole subject for you. Meph -- "I did this 'cause Linux gives me a woody." -Dave '-ddt->' Taylor, announcing DOOM for Linux "Angus - the only one with any brains." -Lauren Bacall The two most common things in the Universe are hydrogen and stupidity. -Harlan Ellison "You eat enough meat, you want to kill somebody. That's the way it works!!" -Denis Leary Thank you, Meph Istopheles Manager Aeon AL Providing alternatives for the stagnating mind. http://Aeon-AL.Com