Re: [Nix-dev] Google Summer of Code 2017

[Thomas Hunger]

Hi Anderson,

Please do! Just submit a PR and I'll give you push permissions. The more
ideas we have the better.

~

On 28 March 2017 at 18:48, Anderson Torres 
wrote:

> No problems, guys! Just keep calm and carry on! We gained another year
> to rally efforts on a GSOC 2018!
>
> Thomas, can I add my ideas to your Github repo?
>
> 2017-03-15 12:33 GMT-03:00 Oliver Charles :
> > On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 12:47 PM Domen Kožar  wrote:
> >>
> >> We aren't participating in GSOC 2017, because I missed the submission
> >> deadline.
> >>
> >>
> >> That being said, I know people will be disappointed by this. I'm sorry,
> >> I have no excuses really. I was overworked at that time and totally
> forgot
> >> to watch the dates.
> >>
> >> I already applied us two times, I hope I'll gather the energy to try
> again
> >> next year.
> >> But since I screwed up this year, someone else can take over if wanted,
> >> I understand not to be trusted :)
> >
> >
> > As Thomas said, no hard feelings - this is not your fault! There's always
> > next year :)
> >
> > - ocharles
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Re: [Nix-dev] Google Summer of Code 2017

[Anderson Torres]

No problems, guys! Just keep calm and carry on! We gained another year
to rally efforts on a GSOC 2018!

Thomas, can I add my ideas to your Github repo?

2017-03-15 12:33 GMT-03:00 Oliver Charles :
> On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 12:47 PM Domen Kožar  wrote:
>>
>> We aren't participating in GSOC 2017, because I missed the submission
>> deadline.
>>
>>
>> That being said, I know people will be disappointed by this. I'm sorry,
>> I have no excuses really. I was overworked at that time and totally forgot
>> to watch the dates.
>>
>> I already applied us two times, I hope I'll gather the energy to try again
>> next year.
>> But since I screwed up this year, someone else can take over if wanted,
>> I understand not to be trusted :)
>
>
> As Thomas said, no hard feelings - this is not your fault! There's always
> next year :)
>
> - ocharles
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Re: [Nix-dev] Google Summer of Code 2017

[zimbatm]

Added to calendar for next year :)

On Wed, 15 Mar 2017, 22:03 Vladimír Čunát,  wrote:

> On 03/15/2017 04:33 PM, Oliver Charles wrote:
> > On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 12:47 PM Domen Kožar  > > wrote:
> > That being said, I know people will be disappointed by this. I'm
> sorry,
> > I have no excuses really. I was overworked at that time and totally
> > forgot to watch the dates.
> >
> > I already applied us two times, I hope I'll gather the energy to try
> > again next year.
> > But since I screwed up this year, someone else can take over if
> wanted,
> > I understand not to be trusted :)
> >
> > As Thomas said, no hard feelings - this is not your fault! There's
> > always next year :)
>
> I certainly second that; there's no use in assigning the blame.  I
> personally knew the deadline must be soon, but - honestly - I've been
> long-term over-busy with things that felt more important to me, even
> around nix(os).
>
> --Vladimir
>
>
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Re: [Nix-dev] Google Summer of Code 2017

[Vladimír Čunát]

On 03/15/2017 04:33 PM, Oliver Charles wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 12:47 PM Domen Kožar  > wrote:
> That being said, I know people will be disappointed by this. I'm sorry,
> I have no excuses really. I was overworked at that time and totally
> forgot to watch the dates.
> 
> I already applied us two times, I hope I'll gather the energy to try
> again next year.
> But since I screwed up this year, someone else can take over if wanted,
> I understand not to be trusted :) 
> 
> As Thomas said, no hard feelings - this is not your fault! There's
> always next year :)

I certainly second that; there's no use in assigning the blame.  I
personally knew the deadline must be soon, but - honestly - I've been
long-term over-busy with things that felt more important to me, even
around nix(os).

--Vladimir




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Re: [Nix-dev] Google Summer of Code 2017

[David Izquierdo]

Oh dear, I had been thinking about 1 and 2 lately...


On systemd, I don't think that it's worth it to even try to port 
dependent software. Nix is smart enough to warn about/fix dependencies. 
And "porting" the actual unit files sounds easy IMO, systemd has good 
documentation on unit files that can be easily mapped to alternative 
complementary software (one example I've used recently: `timeout` 
instead of "RuntimeMaxSec"). I don't think indirection would be 
necessary, since the declarative style of units is already really really 
nice to us. Simply moving the relevant options out of the systemd 
namespace and into a more general place (services.service.$NAME?).



BSDs... I thought they had official support... They don't, according to 
the Nix manual's Supported Platforms chapter. I guess once it exists AND 
systemd becomes optional, it's solved itself. And I don't see why Nix 
wouldn't just-work on a BSD when it's supported on Linux and MacOS.



Now, literally all of the above has been pulled out of my backend, and 
from a few months worth of NixOS usage and learning. I hope someone with 
actual knowledge can fix this, and better outline how deep into NixOS's 
internals one would have to plumb to implement this.



On 13/03/17 18:23, Anderson Torres wrote:

2017-01-08 18:40 GMT-02:00 Profpatsch :

On 17-01-04 09:42pm, Vladimír Čunát wrote:

On 01/04/2017 08:51 PM, Peter Simons wrote:

Another very important topic that needs to be addressed in Nix / Hydra
is the question of how to deal with code that wants to import build
products into the ongoing evaluation. [...]

That feels rather vague topic ATM.  My experience is that this kind of
"figure it out how to..." tasks isn't very suitable for similar "project
proposals" like for GSoC.  Still, if we could converge on some more
concrete plan beforehand, maybe the actual implementation would make a
good topic...

I would suggest three big fat proposals:

1 - The most flamewar-igniting one: getting rid of systemd dependency!
It would be very nice if the init system was selectable, with a sane
default (as openrc).
It would be hard as hell to port certain software as Gnome stack, but
I think it can be solved.

2 - Another for the even more courageous would be run a Nixos+kNetBSD
(or kFreeBSD), as in Debian. It would be the definitive test for
portability and independence of Nix model.

3 - Another set of defaults for the stdenv, as musl+clang.


Sounds more like a task for a master’s thesis (or adventurous
bachelor’s thesis) to me.

--
Proudly written in Mutt with Vim on NixOS.
Q: Why is this email five sentences or less?
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Re: [Nix-dev] Google Summer of Code 2017

[Oliver Charles]

On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 12:47 PM Domen Kožar  wrote:

> We aren't participating in GSOC 2017, because I missed the submission
> deadline.
>
>
> That being said, I know people will be disappointed by this. I'm sorry,
> I have no excuses really. I was overworked at that time and totally forgot
> to watch the dates.
>
> I already applied us two times, I hope I'll gather the energy to try again
> next year.
> But since I screwed up this year, someone else can take over if wanted,
> I understand not to be trusted :)
>

As Thomas said, no hard feelings - this is not your fault! There's always
next year :)

- ocharles
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Re: [Nix-dev] Google Summer of Code 2017

[Thomas Hunger]

I don't believe in individual failure. We should try to put a system in
place to avoid this next time.

A related issue is that GHC didn't get in either because they didn't have a
good page with potential projects.

I propose:

* Several of us put the next deadline into our calendar (probably beginning
of Feb, so I used 31st of January 2018). I just did so.
* We collect ideas for next year already. I have created:
https://github.com/teh/gsoc/blob/master/2018/projects.md - please send PRs
and I'll give you commit bits.

~



On 15 March 2017 at 12:46, Domen Kožar  wrote:

> We aren't participating in GSOC 2017, because I missed the submission
> deadline.
>
>
> That being said, I know people will be disappointed by this. I'm sorry,
> I have no excuses really. I was overworked at that time and totally forgot
> to watch the dates.
>
> I already applied us two times, I hope I'll gather the energy to try again
> next year.
> But since I screwed up this year, someone else can take over if wanted,
> I understand not to be trusted :)
>
> Domen
>
> On Mon, Mar 13, 2017 at 6:23 PM, Anderson Torres <
> torres.anderson...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> 2017-01-08 18:40 GMT-02:00 Profpatsch :
>> > On 17-01-04 09:42pm, Vladimír Čunát wrote:
>> >> On 01/04/2017 08:51 PM, Peter Simons wrote:
>> >> > Another very important topic that needs to be addressed in Nix /
>> Hydra
>> >> > is the question of how to deal with code that wants to import build
>> >> > products into the ongoing evaluation. [...]
>> >>
>> >> That feels rather vague topic ATM.  My experience is that this kind of
>> >> "figure it out how to..." tasks isn't very suitable for similar
>> "project
>> >> proposals" like for GSoC.  Still, if we could converge on some more
>> >> concrete plan beforehand, maybe the actual implementation would make a
>> >> good topic...
>>
>> I would suggest three big fat proposals:
>>
>> 1 - The most flamewar-igniting one: getting rid of systemd dependency!
>> It would be very nice if the init system was selectable, with a sane
>> default (as openrc).
>> It would be hard as hell to port certain software as Gnome stack, but
>> I think it can be solved.
>>
>> 2 - Another for the even more courageous would be run a Nixos+kNetBSD
>> (or kFreeBSD), as in Debian. It would be the definitive test for
>> portability and independence of Nix model.
>>
>> 3 - Another set of defaults for the stdenv, as musl+clang.
>>
>> >
>> > Sounds more like a task for a master’s thesis (or adventurous
>> > bachelor’s thesis) to me.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Proudly written in Mutt with Vim on NixOS.
>> > Q: Why is this email five sentences or less?
>> > A: http://five.sentenc.es
>> > May take up to five days to read your message. If it’s urgent, call me.
>> > ___
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Re: [Nix-dev] Google Summer of Code 2017

[Domen Kožar]

We aren't participating in GSOC 2017, because I missed the submission
deadline.


That being said, I know people will be disappointed by this. I'm sorry,
I have no excuses really. I was overworked at that time and totally forgot
to watch the dates.

I already applied us two times, I hope I'll gather the energy to try again
next year.
But since I screwed up this year, someone else can take over if wanted,
I understand not to be trusted :)

Domen

On Mon, Mar 13, 2017 at 6:23 PM, Anderson Torres <
torres.anderson...@gmail.com> wrote:

> 2017-01-08 18:40 GMT-02:00 Profpatsch :
> > On 17-01-04 09:42pm, Vladimír Čunát wrote:
> >> On 01/04/2017 08:51 PM, Peter Simons wrote:
> >> > Another very important topic that needs to be addressed in Nix / Hydra
> >> > is the question of how to deal with code that wants to import build
> >> > products into the ongoing evaluation. [...]
> >>
> >> That feels rather vague topic ATM.  My experience is that this kind of
> >> "figure it out how to..." tasks isn't very suitable for similar "project
> >> proposals" like for GSoC.  Still, if we could converge on some more
> >> concrete plan beforehand, maybe the actual implementation would make a
> >> good topic...
>
> I would suggest three big fat proposals:
>
> 1 - The most flamewar-igniting one: getting rid of systemd dependency!
> It would be very nice if the init system was selectable, with a sane
> default (as openrc).
> It would be hard as hell to port certain software as Gnome stack, but
> I think it can be solved.
>
> 2 - Another for the even more courageous would be run a Nixos+kNetBSD
> (or kFreeBSD), as in Debian. It would be the definitive test for
> portability and independence of Nix model.
>
> 3 - Another set of defaults for the stdenv, as musl+clang.
>
> >
> > Sounds more like a task for a master’s thesis (or adventurous
> > bachelor’s thesis) to me.
> >
> > --
> > Proudly written in Mutt with Vim on NixOS.
> > Q: Why is this email five sentences or less?
> > A: http://five.sentenc.es
> > May take up to five days to read your message. If it’s urgent, call me.
> > ___
> > nix-dev mailing list
> > nix-dev@lists.science.uu.nl
> > http://lists.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/nix-dev
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Re: [Nix-dev] Google Summer of Code 2017

[Anderson Torres]

2017-01-08 18:40 GMT-02:00 Profpatsch :
> On 17-01-04 09:42pm, Vladimír Čunát wrote:
>> On 01/04/2017 08:51 PM, Peter Simons wrote:
>> > Another very important topic that needs to be addressed in Nix / Hydra
>> > is the question of how to deal with code that wants to import build
>> > products into the ongoing evaluation. [...]
>>
>> That feels rather vague topic ATM.  My experience is that this kind of
>> "figure it out how to..." tasks isn't very suitable for similar "project
>> proposals" like for GSoC.  Still, if we could converge on some more
>> concrete plan beforehand, maybe the actual implementation would make a
>> good topic...

I would suggest three big fat proposals:

1 - The most flamewar-igniting one: getting rid of systemd dependency!
It would be very nice if the init system was selectable, with a sane
default (as openrc).
It would be hard as hell to port certain software as Gnome stack, but
I think it can be solved.

2 - Another for the even more courageous would be run a Nixos+kNetBSD
(or kFreeBSD), as in Debian. It would be the definitive test for
portability and independence of Nix model.

3 - Another set of defaults for the stdenv, as musl+clang.

>
> Sounds more like a task for a master’s thesis (or adventurous
> bachelor’s thesis) to me.
>
> --
> Proudly written in Mutt with Vim on NixOS.
> Q: Why is this email five sentences or less?
> A: http://five.sentenc.es
> May take up to five days to read your message. If it’s urgent, call me.
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Re: [Nix-dev] Google Summer of Code 2017

[Profpatsch]

On 17-01-04 09:42pm, Vladimír Čunát wrote:
> On 01/04/2017 08:51 PM, Peter Simons wrote:
> > Another very important topic that needs to be addressed in Nix / Hydra
> > is the question of how to deal with code that wants to import build
> > products into the ongoing evaluation. [...]
> 
> That feels rather vague topic ATM.  My experience is that this kind of
> "figure it out how to..." tasks isn't very suitable for similar "project
> proposals" like for GSoC.  Still, if we could converge on some more
> concrete plan beforehand, maybe the actual implementation would make a
> good topic...

Sounds more like a task for a master’s thesis (or adventurous
bachelor’s thesis) to me.

-- 
Proudly written in Mutt with Vim on NixOS.
Q: Why is this email five sentences or less?
A: http://five.sentenc.es
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Re: [Nix-dev] Google Summer of Code 2017

[Matthew Bauer]

Domen Kožar  writes:

> I'll prepare a list of things each idea needs and send a call for mentors.
>
> There's a GSoC label on github, so let's use that.

Okay sounds good! We can start adding issues that were on the wiki that
may still be viable.
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Re: [Nix-dev] Google Summer of Code 2017

[Domen Kožar]

Hey!

On Wed, Jan 4, 2017 at 3:49 AM, Matthew Bauer  wrote:

> Google Summer of Code applications open on January 19 for
> organizations[1]. NixOS had previously applied to be an organization in
> 2014 and 2015 but neither time was accepted. I think it would be great if
> we could get an application in for this year. It's not clear what criteria
> the GSoC use for accepting orgs but I'm thinking that the growth the Nix*
> projects have experienced over the last 2 years gives us a pretty good shot.
>

The criteria is not known, they take a few new orgs each year and recycle.


> Mentors
> The most important thing right now is getting a list of mentors. Lots of
> the mentors from 2015 are still active[2] so I'm hoping to get input from
> them. New mentors would also be welcome! I think @iElectric organized the
> efforts previously, so I'm hoping to see if he is
>

I'll happily do it in 2017.


> Students
> I am currently eligible to work as a student over this summer if NixOS
> gets accepted. I'd really enjoy working on NixOS-stuff and I think it would
> be really helpful to the Nix* project.
>

Awesome - thanks for starting the discussion.


> Ideas
> These are some various ideas. Some are new and some are based on the wiki
> page[2].
>
> - NixOS graphical installer: Use something like Calamares[3], make it
> generate a NixOS config, then run some basic installation commands.
> - Nix graphical package manager: Extending on my original efforts in
> getting PackageKit[4] working with Nix, this would be a GUI application
> that makes managing Nix/NixOS easier.
> - Improve Nix build output: This would either be reporting progress
> (NixOS/nix#896) or "Improve nix-build output for post-processing"[5] or
> both.
> - In-memory representation of derivations: get rid of the .drv files in Nix
>

I'll prepare a list of things each idea needs and send a call for mentors.

There's a GSoC label on github, so let's use that.


>
> Obviously there are lots of other ideas that are worthwhile, hopefully
> potential mentors can contribute more.
>
> [1]: https://developers.google.com/open-source/gsoc/timeline
> [2]: https://nixos.org/wiki/GSOC_2015_ideas_list
> [3]: https://calamares.io
> [4]: https://github.com/hughsie/PackageKit
> [5]: https://nixos.org/wiki/GSOC_2015_ideas_list#Improve_
> nix-build_output_for_post-processing
>
> Gist URL: https://gist.github.com/matthewbauer/
> 109f4b7d1c7ab0eeffbe9448e049a254
> --
> Matthew Bauer 
> University of Kansas
> https://matthewbauer.us/
> (913) 671-0636
>
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Re: [Nix-dev] Google Summer of Code 2017

[Leo Gaspard]

On 01/04/2017 03:49 AM, Matthew Bauer wrote:
> Obviously there are lots of other ideas that are worthwhile, hopefully
> potential mentors can contribute more.

I have almost no experience in nix except as a user, so I obviously
can't mentor anything, but maybe finally getting rid of [1] (which,
around me, seems to be one of the most recurrent issue about nixos,
along with documentation matters) could be a good idea? If I remember
correctly two ways forward have been found (ACLs and encryption),
picking one and making it actually work and be merged may be a great
stride forward, for an issue that has been opened for almost five years.

Just my 2¢,
Leo


[1] https://github.com/NixOS/nix/issues/8



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Re: [Nix-dev] Google Summer of Code 2017

[Matthew Bauer]

On Wed, Jan 4, 2017 at 12:54 PM Vladimír Čunát  wrote:

> On 01/04/2017 03:49 AM, Matthew Bauer wrote:
> > Ideas
>
> I suggest we create a GitHub ticket for each hopeful idea.  There each
> gets a thread to discuss it and come to a better specification in the
> end.  For this could add a GSoC label.
>

Some of the ideas I listed already have issues associated. I'll create
issues for the ones that don't though.
-- 
Matthew Bauer 
University of Kansas
https://matthewbauer.us/
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Re: [Nix-dev] Google Summer of Code 2017

[Vladimír Čunát]

On 01/04/2017 08:51 PM, Peter Simons wrote:
> Another very important topic that needs to be addressed in Nix / Hydra
> is the question of how to deal with code that wants to import build
> products into the ongoing evaluation. [...]

That feels rather vague topic ATM.  My experience is that this kind of
"figure it out how to..." tasks isn't very suitable for similar "project
proposals" like for GSoC.  Still, if we could converge on some more
concrete plan beforehand, maybe the actual implementation would make a
good topic...




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Re: [Nix-dev] Google Summer of Code 2017

[Peter Simons]

As far as Haskell-related projects are concerned, there's a collection
of ideas available at [1]. All of these have related discussion threads
in the nix-dev archive which provide additional information.

Another very important topic that needs to be addressed in Nix / Hydra
is the question of how to deal with code that wants to import build
products into the ongoing evaluation. [2] has some discussion, but so
far naught has come out of it. If we'd be able to figure out this
feature, then we could lift Nix's usefulness to a whole other level,
i.e. we could greatly improve the modularity of Nixpkgs since including
programatically generated expressions could just replace all the cruft
we've currently checked into our Git repository (i.e. packages for
Haskell, Emacs, Python, etc.).

Best regards,
Peter

[1] 
https://github.com/NixOS/cabal2nix/blob/master/doc/00-future-of-haskell-packaging-in-nixpkgs.md
[2] https://github.com/NixOS/nix/issues/954

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Re: [Nix-dev] Google Summer of Code 2017

[Vladimír Čunát]

On 01/04/2017 03:49 AM, Matthew Bauer wrote:
> Ideas

I suggest we create a GitHub ticket for each hopeful idea.  There each
gets a thread to discuss it and come to a better specification in the
end.  For this could add a GSoC label.

IIRC in past we mainly lacked in well-specified project ideas.  Domen
might remember more on the reasons of the failures, and something
probably somewhere in ML history etc.

I could mentor, though probably not universally for arbitrary project ideas.

--Vladimir




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[Nix-dev] Google Summer of Code 2017

[Matthew Bauer]

Google Summer of Code applications open on January 19 for organizations[1].
NixOS had previously applied to be an organization in 2014 and 2015 but
neither time was accepted. I think it would be great if we could get an
application in for this year. It's not clear what criteria the GSoC use for
accepting orgs but I'm thinking that the growth the Nix* projects have
experienced over the last 2 years gives us a pretty good shot.

Mentors
The most important thing right now is getting a list of mentors. Lots of
the mentors from 2015 are still active[2] so I'm hoping to get input from
them. New mentors would also be welcome! I think @iElectric organized the
efforts previously, so I'm hoping to see if he is

Students
I am currently eligible to work as a student over this summer if NixOS gets
accepted. I'd really enjoy working on NixOS-stuff and I think it would be
really helpful to the Nix* project.

Ideas
These are some various ideas. Some are new and some are based on the wiki
page[2].

- NixOS graphical installer: Use something like Calamares[3], make it
generate a NixOS config, then run some basic installation commands.
- Nix graphical package manager: Extending on my original efforts in
getting PackageKit[4] working with Nix, this would be a GUI application
that makes managing Nix/NixOS easier.
- Improve Nix build output: This would either be reporting progress
(NixOS/nix#896) or "Improve nix-build output for post-processing"[5] or
both.
- In-memory representation of derivations: get rid of the .drv files in Nix

Obviously there are lots of other ideas that are worthwhile, hopefully
potential mentors can contribute more.

[1]: https://developers.google.com/open-source/gsoc/timeline
[2]: https://nixos.org/wiki/GSOC_2015_ideas_list
[3]: https://calamares.io
[4]: https://github.com/hughsie/PackageKit
[5]:
https://nixos.org/wiki/GSOC_2015_ideas_list#Improve_nix-build_output_for_post-processing

Gist URL:
https://gist.github.com/matthewbauer/109f4b7d1c7ab0eeffbe9448e049a254
-- 
Matthew Bauer 
University of Kansas
https://matthewbauer.us/
(913) 671-0636
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