Re: [Nix-dev] few questions before migrating from Debian…

[Roger Qiu]

UEFI requires a separate ESP partition anyway. Unless you plan on running
on FAT32.
On 16/04/2016 9:35 PM, "Saša Janiška"  wrote:

> Roger Qiu  writes:
>
> > Will you be using UEFI?
>
> Yes, on my single-disk netbook…any gotcha in regard?
>
>
> Sincerely,
> Gour
>
> --
> Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master.
> Inquire from him submissively and render service unto him.
> The self-realized souls can impart knowledge unto you because
> they have seen the truth.
>
> ___
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> nix-dev@lists.science.uu.nl
> http://lists.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/nix-dev
>
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Re: [Nix-dev] few questions before migrating from Debian…

[Online Touch | Danny Wilson]

ZFS is the best :-)

My gist ( https://gist.github.com/vizanto/7374277 ) is still relevant. With 
slight modifications you don’t need a separate /boot filesystem since recent 
Grub can read ZFS filesystems (mirrors, not sure about RAID-Z) just fine.
Basically just skipping the partitioning steps and creating a whole disk zpool.

A few months ago I've installed NixOS on ZFS root (mirrored disks) so I know 
it’s possible.


Cheers,
Danny


On 9 apr. 2016, at 21:07, Saša Janiška  wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> for some time I’m considering which Linux distro to use to have
> relatively fresh packages as well as not to waste too much time for
> admin work.
> 
> Morever, it would be ideal to have same distro for the machine of my
> relative’s to make it easier during trouble.shooting session. So, in
> order to fulfill those two requirements I did consider to stay with
> Debian (Sid) on my desktop and netbook machines, but put Debian Stable
> on the machines of my relatives.
> 
> However, after checking about NixOS which I tried many years ago, I’ve
> concluded it’s the best option at the moment since I learnt that
> nixos-stable might be good-enough for other’s machine requiring not much
> admin time, while I can use nixos-unstable if stable channel is not
> fresh–enough for my own needs.
> 
> So, before jumping to install on real hardware - today I did install
> under vbox, I’ve few questions…
> 
> My desktop is i7 2.8G/16G machine having 1xTB+1x2TB disks which are
> assembled in btrfs raid1 with / and /home as btrfs subvolumes (the
> remaining 1TB is used for daily backups.)
> 
> I’m delighted that NixOS provides ZFS as filesytem option since it was
> one of the reasons why I was evaluating Free/PC-BSD option in the past.
> 
> a) do you, in general, recommend using ZFS over Btrfs for NixOS desktop
> machine?
> 
> b) is ZFS good option even for single-disk netbook machine with 4G of
> memory?
> 
> c) can one use ZFS on root *without* usage of separate /boot partition?
> I use same disk layout on Debian, but with btrfs and do not have any
> experience with ZoL, although I’ve found that there is
> ’boot.loader.grub.zfsSupport’ option?
> 
> Any doc/tutorial explaining how to do such install?
> 
> I’ve found: https://gist.github.com/vizanto/7374277 but wonder if it is
> still relevant?
> 
> There are of course few packages I do miss in NixOS, but everything else
> is so great, so that I’m very enthusiastic to put NixOS on all my
> relative’s  machines very soon.
> 
> On all machines, I plan to use GNOME3, so wonder if there are some
> gotchas in regard - someone on #nixoes mentioned that GTK does not like
> custom paths as used by Nix and recommended i3 instead which is, atm,
> not option considering that other family members also use my machine and
> relatives are not savvy-enough for that tiling wm.
> 
> 
> Sincerely,
> Gour
> 
> -- 
> Therefore, without being attached to the fruits of activities,
> one should act as a matter of duty, for by working without
> attachment one attains the Supreme.
> 
> ___
> nix-dev mailing list
> nix-dev@lists.science.uu.nl
> http://lists.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/nix-dev

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Re: [Nix-dev] few questions before migrating from Debian…

[Saša Janiška]

Roger Qiu  writes:

> UEFI requires a separate ESP partition anyway.

OK, that’s clear. ;

> Unless you plan on running on FAT32.

Not at all. :-)


Sincerely,
Gour

-- 
Whatever action a great man performs, common men follow. And
whatever standards he sets by exemplary acts, all the world pursues.

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Re: [Nix-dev] few questions before migrating from Debian…

[Saša Janiška]

Roger Qiu  writes:

> Will you be using UEFI?

Yes, on my single-disk netbook…any gotcha in regard?


Sincerely,
Gour

-- 
Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master.
Inquire from him submissively and render service unto him.
The self-realized souls can impart knowledge unto you because
they have seen the truth.

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Re: [Nix-dev] few questions before migrating from Debian…

[Saša Janiška]

Online Touch | Danny Wilson  writes:

> ZFS is the best :-)

What about memory consumption?

> With slight modifications you don’t need a separate /boot filesystem
> since recent Grub can read ZFS filesystems (mirrors, not sure about
> RAID-Z) just fine.

What are those modifications which are required?

> A few months ago I've installed NixOS on ZFS root (mirrored disks) so
> I know it’s possible.

That’s good to know..maybe I should try to do another test-install under
vbox with ZFS on root & raid1…


Sincerely,
Gour

-- 
Perform your prescribed duty, for doing so is better than not
working. One cannot even maintain one's physical body without work.

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Re: [Nix-dev] few questions before migrating from Debian…

[Saša Janiška]

Roger Qiu  writes:

> ZFS still requires separate /boot. Actually this depends on your boot
> loader, not ZFS. So if you find a better boot loader that can run
> ZFS, then you won't need a separate /boot. If you use UEFI, you'll
> need a separate ESP partition anyway, which you can use as your /boot
> if you are only using UEFI.

After some consideration, I believe I’ll go with XFS which does not
require separate /boot – tested under vbox with raid1 configuration.


Sincerely,
Gour

-- 
As a strong wind sweeps away a boat on the water,
even one of the roaming senses on which the mind
focuses can carry away a man's intelligence.

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Re: [Nix-dev] few questions before migrating from Debian…

[Roger Qiu]

ZFS still requires separate /boot. Actually this depends on your boot
loader, not ZFS. So if you find a better boot loader that can run ZFS, then
you won't need a separate /boot. If you use UEFI, you'll need a separate
ESP partition anyway, which you can use as your /boot if you are only using
UEFI.
On 10/04/2016 5:15 AM, "Saša Janiška"  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> for some time I’m considering which Linux distro to use to have
> relatively fresh packages as well as not to waste too much time for
> admin work.
>
> Morever, it would be ideal to have same distro for the machine of my
> relative’s to make it easier during trouble.shooting session. So, in
> order to fulfill those two requirements I did consider to stay with
> Debian (Sid) on my desktop and netbook machines, but put Debian Stable
> on the machines of my relatives.
>
> However, after checking about NixOS which I tried many years ago, I’ve
> concluded it’s the best option at the moment since I learnt that
> nixos-stable might be good-enough for other’s machine requiring not much
> admin time, while I can use nixos-unstable if stable channel is not
> fresh–enough for my own needs.
>
> So, before jumping to install on real hardware - today I did install
> under vbox, I’ve few questions…
>
> My desktop is i7 2.8G/16G machine having 1xTB+1x2TB disks which are
> assembled in btrfs raid1 with / and /home as btrfs subvolumes (the
> remaining 1TB is used for daily backups.)
>
> I’m delighted that NixOS provides ZFS as filesytem option since it was
> one of the reasons why I was evaluating Free/PC-BSD option in the past.
>
> a) do you, in general, recommend using ZFS over Btrfs for NixOS desktop
> machine?
>
> b) is ZFS good option even for single-disk netbook machine with 4G of
> memory?
>
> c) can one use ZFS on root *without* usage of separate /boot partition?
> I use same disk layout on Debian, but with btrfs and do not have any
> experience with ZoL, although I’ve found that there is
> ’boot.loader.grub.zfsSupport’ option?
>
> Any doc/tutorial explaining how to do such install?
>
> I’ve found: https://gist.github.com/vizanto/7374277 but wonder if it is
> still relevant?
>
> There are of course few packages I do miss in NixOS, but everything else
> is so great, so that I’m very enthusiastic to put NixOS on all my
> relative’s  machines very soon.
>
> On all machines, I plan to use GNOME3, so wonder if there are some
> gotchas in regard - someone on #nixoes mentioned that GTK does not like
> custom paths as used by Nix and recommended i3 instead which is, atm,
> not option considering that other family members also use my machine and
> relatives are not savvy-enough for that tiling wm.
>
>
> Sincerely,
> Gour
>
> --
> Therefore, without being attached to the fruits of activities,
> one should act as a matter of duty, for by working without
> attachment one attains the Supreme.
>
> ___
> nix-dev mailing list
> nix-dev@lists.science.uu.nl
> http://lists.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/nix-dev
>
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Re: [Nix-dev] few questions before migrating from Debian…

[Thomas Sigurdsen]

As a nixos newbie I'll weigh in. Installed nixos during the previous 
weekend, having been on gentoo for some years.

There's been some getting used to the nix language, and defining 
everything in the .nix configs instead of files in /etc/. Also, systemd 
is a strange beast; not sure how I feel about it, but it does the job :P

There definitely are some quirks and some things are difficult to figure 
out. For instance I struggled getting wpa_supplicant running, but it 
turned out that the networking.supplicant and networking.wireless 
options were creating a conflict.

When all that is said, and remembering I've only been at it for less 
than a week, I'm quite pleased with nixos and it's a joy to work with.

I love that even when I made changes that froze my boot, I just chose an 
earlier system/profile (don't know what it's called) and could start a 
fully functional system where I could fix the problems.

I would encourage you to put of some 10, 20GB on a disk and try nixos on 
it for a while. That's what I did before I deleted the old gentoo system.

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Re: [Nix-dev] few questions before migrating from Debian…

[Saša Janiška]

Vladimír Čunát  writes:

> It's these various quirks, I believe. Mostly less important edge cases.
> They come from having much less testers and contributors than Debian
> (for example) and from deviating on some commonly assumed points, e.g.
> shared directories for all plugins on the system.

Well, I’m sure NixOS has some other strong points which outweight some
gotchas.

> On the other hand, once you have a working system, you can easily roll
> back to it if something goes wrong... I agree with NixOS it's still
> better that there is a power-user maintainer, but that *is* your case.

Right. Now I’m doing raid1/xfs-on-root install with GNOME under vbox and
if everything is fine, soon I’ll put NixOS on real hardware. ;)


Sincerely,
Gour

-- 
Those who are on this path are resolute in purpose,
and their aim is one. O beloved child of the Kurus,
the intelligence of those who are irresolute is many-branched.


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Re: [Nix-dev] few questions before migrating from Debian…

[Vladimír Čunát]

On 04/09/2016 09:59 PM, Saša Janiška wrote:
>> I wouldn't recommend NixOS to non-developers, our stable releases are
>> still a lot less stable than Debian testing.
> 
> In which sense is that ’less stability’ manifested?

It's these various quirks, I believe. Mostly less important edge cases.
They come from having much less testers and contributors than Debian
(for example) and from deviating on some commonly assumed points, e.g.
shared directories for all plugins on the system.

On the other hand, once you have a working system, you can easily roll
back to it if something goes wrong... I agree with NixOS it's still
better that there is a power-user maintainer, but that *is* your case.

--Vladimir




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Re: [Nix-dev] few questions before migrating from Debian…

[Saša Janiška]

Jakob Gillich  writes:

> GNOME 3 works pretty well, but like many other things on NixOS it has
> a few quirks. For example, it does not auto-detect new apps until you
> restart GNOME shell.

OK, that’s not a big deal.

> I wouldn't recommend NixOS to non-developers, our stable releases are
> still a lot less stable than Debian testing.

In which sense is that ’less stability’ manifested?


Sincerely,
Gour

-- 
From wherever the mind wanders due to its flickering and unsteady
nature, one must certainly withdraw it and bring it back under
the control of the self.

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Re: [Nix-dev] few questions before migrating from Debian…

[Jakob Gillich]

GNOME 3 works pretty well, but like many other things on NixOS it has a
few quirks. For example, it does not auto-detect new apps until you
restart GNOME shell. I wouldn't recommend NixOS to non-developers, our
stable releases are still a lot less stable than Debian testing.

On Sat, Apr 9, 2016, at 09:07 PM, Saša Janiška wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> for some time I’m considering which Linux distro to use to have
> relatively fresh packages as well as not to waste too much time for
> admin work.
> 
> Morever, it would be ideal to have same distro for the machine of my
> relative’s to make it easier during trouble.shooting session. So, in
> order to fulfill those two requirements I did consider to stay with
> Debian (Sid) on my desktop and netbook machines, but put Debian Stable
> on the machines of my relatives.
> 
> However, after checking about NixOS which I tried many years ago, I’ve
> concluded it’s the best option at the moment since I learnt that
> nixos-stable might be good-enough for other’s machine requiring not much
> admin time, while I can use nixos-unstable if stable channel is not
> fresh–enough for my own needs.
> 
> So, before jumping to install on real hardware - today I did install
> under vbox, I’ve few questions…
> 
> My desktop is i7 2.8G/16G machine having 1xTB+1x2TB disks which are
> assembled in btrfs raid1 with / and /home as btrfs subvolumes (the
> remaining 1TB is used for daily backups.)
> 
> I’m delighted that NixOS provides ZFS as filesytem option since it was
> one of the reasons why I was evaluating Free/PC-BSD option in the past.
> 
> a) do you, in general, recommend using ZFS over Btrfs for NixOS desktop
> machine?
> 
> b) is ZFS good option even for single-disk netbook machine with 4G of
> memory?
> 
> c) can one use ZFS on root *without* usage of separate /boot partition?
> I use same disk layout on Debian, but with btrfs and do not have any
> experience with ZoL, although I’ve found that there is
> ’boot.loader.grub.zfsSupport’ option?
> 
> Any doc/tutorial explaining how to do such install?
> 
> I’ve found: https://gist.github.com/vizanto/7374277 but wonder if it is
> still relevant?
> 
> There are of course few packages I do miss in NixOS, but everything else
> is so great, so that I’m very enthusiastic to put NixOS on all my
> relative’s  machines very soon.
> 
> On all machines, I plan to use GNOME3, so wonder if there are some
> gotchas in regard - someone on #nixoes mentioned that GTK does not like
> custom paths as used by Nix and recommended i3 instead which is, atm,
> not option considering that other family members also use my machine and
> relatives are not savvy-enough for that tiling wm.
> 
> 
> Sincerely,
> Gour
> 
> -- 
> Therefore, without being attached to the fruits of activities,
> one should act as a matter of duty, for by working without
> attachment one attains the Supreme.
> 
> ___
> nix-dev mailing list
> nix-dev@lists.science.uu.nl
> http://lists.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/nix-dev
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[Nix-dev] few questions before migrating from Debian…

[Saša Janiška]

Hello,

for some time I’m considering which Linux distro to use to have
relatively fresh packages as well as not to waste too much time for
admin work.

Morever, it would be ideal to have same distro for the machine of my
relative’s to make it easier during trouble.shooting session. So, in
order to fulfill those two requirements I did consider to stay with
Debian (Sid) on my desktop and netbook machines, but put Debian Stable
on the machines of my relatives.

However, after checking about NixOS which I tried many years ago, I’ve
concluded it’s the best option at the moment since I learnt that
nixos-stable might be good-enough for other’s machine requiring not much
admin time, while I can use nixos-unstable if stable channel is not
fresh–enough for my own needs.

So, before jumping to install on real hardware - today I did install
under vbox, I’ve few questions…

My desktop is i7 2.8G/16G machine having 1xTB+1x2TB disks which are
assembled in btrfs raid1 with / and /home as btrfs subvolumes (the
remaining 1TB is used for daily backups.)

I’m delighted that NixOS provides ZFS as filesytem option since it was
one of the reasons why I was evaluating Free/PC-BSD option in the past.

a) do you, in general, recommend using ZFS over Btrfs for NixOS desktop
machine?

b) is ZFS good option even for single-disk netbook machine with 4G of
memory?

c) can one use ZFS on root *without* usage of separate /boot partition?
I use same disk layout on Debian, but with btrfs and do not have any
experience with ZoL, although I’ve found that there is
’boot.loader.grub.zfsSupport’ option?

Any doc/tutorial explaining how to do such install?

I’ve found: https://gist.github.com/vizanto/7374277 but wonder if it is
still relevant?

There are of course few packages I do miss in NixOS, but everything else
is so great, so that I’m very enthusiastic to put NixOS on all my
relative’s  machines very soon.

On all machines, I plan to use GNOME3, so wonder if there are some
gotchas in regard - someone on #nixoes mentioned that GTK does not like
custom paths as used by Nix and recommended i3 instead which is, atm,
not option considering that other family members also use my machine and
relatives are not savvy-enough for that tiling wm.


Sincerely,
Gour

-- 
Therefore, without being attached to the fruits of activities,
one should act as a matter of duty, for by working without
attachment one attains the Supreme.

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