Re: [Nix-dev] firefox 21 font rendering
On 06/20/2013 04:43 PM, Petar Bogdanovic wrote: I just created ~/.fonts.conf and managed to set/unset antialias, autohint, hinting and rgba. rgba was the only setting that had no visual effect on ff20. I tried values none and rgb. I'll try ff21 and see what happens. In ff21, rgba=rgb makes a difference, the result looks better than with rgba=none. But I wasn't able to reproduce the old ff20 look. Meh, bail, revert. ;) Setting useSystemCairo=true for firefox21Pkgs should have that behaviour (which was on x-updates, only for a few days). BTW, by merging x-updates default font rendering changed also because the vanilla freetype changed a lot. Vlada smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ nix-dev mailing list nix-dev@lists.science.uu.nl http://lists.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/nix-dev
Re: [Nix-dev] firefox 21 font rendering
On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 04:27:33PM +0200, Petar Bogdanovic wrote: > On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 04:23:35PM +0200, Vladimír Čunát wrote: > > On 06/20/2013 03:58 PM, Petar Bogdanovic wrote: > > >Then I guess the next build of 21.0.nix will use the old rendering > > >again, given that the latest commit made system-cairo optional? > > > > The current one does not subpixel rendering (for me). But it didn't even > > with system cairo on my machine, I don't know why... all other apps do. > > Aszlig said it did for him. > > I just created ~/.fonts.conf and managed to set/unset antialias, > autohint, hinting and rgba. > > rgba was the only setting that had no visual effect on ff20. I tried > values none and rgb. I'll try ff21 and see what happens. In ff21, rgba=rgb makes a difference, the result looks better than with rgba=none. But I wasn't able to reproduce the old ff20 look. Meh, bail, revert. ;) ___ nix-dev mailing list nix-dev@lists.science.uu.nl http://lists.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/nix-dev
Re: [Nix-dev] firefox 21 font rendering
On 06/20/2013 04:27 PM, Petar Bogdanovic wrote: I just created ~/.fonts.conf and managed to set/unset antialias, autohint, hinting and rgba. rgba was the only setting that had no visual effect on ff20. I tried values none and rgb. I'll try ff21 and see what happens. The details of infinality rendering can be set per-program via env-vars. See e.g. https://build.opensuse.org/package/view_file?file=infinality-settings.sh&package=freetype2&project=home%3Anamtrac%3Asubpixel&rev=84c31c981304582e535f1e9189502c72 Vlada smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ nix-dev mailing list nix-dev@lists.science.uu.nl http://lists.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/nix-dev
Re: [Nix-dev] firefox 21 font rendering
On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 04:23:35PM +0200, Vladimír Čunát wrote: > On 06/20/2013 03:58 PM, Petar Bogdanovic wrote: > >Then I guess the next build of 21.0.nix will use the old rendering > >again, given that the latest commit made system-cairo optional? > > The current one does not subpixel rendering (for me). But it didn't even > with system cairo on my machine, I don't know why... all other apps do. > Aszlig said it did for him. I just created ~/.fonts.conf and managed to set/unset antialias, autohint, hinting and rgba. rgba was the only setting that had no visual effect on ff20. I tried values none and rgb. I'll try ff21 and see what happens. ___ nix-dev mailing list nix-dev@lists.science.uu.nl http://lists.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/nix-dev
Re: [Nix-dev] firefox 21 font rendering
On 06/20/2013 03:58 PM, Petar Bogdanovic wrote: Then I guess the next build of 21.0.nix will use the old rendering again, given that the latest commit made system-cairo optional? The current one does not subpixel rendering (for me). But it didn't even with system cairo on my machine, I don't know why... all other apps do. Aszlig said it did for him. Vlada smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ nix-dev mailing list nix-dev@lists.science.uu.nl http://lists.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/nix-dev
Re: [Nix-dev] firefox 21 font rendering
On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 03:43:22PM +0200, Vladimír Čunát wrote: > On 06/20/2013 03:40 PM, Petar Bogdanovic wrote: > >On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 02:07:08PM +0200, Mathijs Kwik wrote: > >> > >>The old behavior (ff20) was not to use the system libraries and thus > >>not use the system-wide font rendering config, but use an oldschool > >>default, regardless of the rest of the system. > > > >With system-wide you mean settings in fonts.conf? > > No, the rendering libraries (mainly cairo, it's about --enable-system-cairo > flag). Then I guess the next build of 21.0.nix will use the old rendering again, given that the latest commit made system-cairo optional? ___ nix-dev mailing list nix-dev@lists.science.uu.nl http://lists.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/nix-dev
Re: [Nix-dev] firefox 21 font rendering
On 06/20/2013 03:40 PM, Petar Bogdanovic wrote: On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 02:07:08PM +0200, Mathijs Kwik wrote: The old behavior (ff20) was not to use the system libraries and thus not use the system-wide font rendering config, but use an oldschool default, regardless of the rest of the system. With system-wide you mean settings in fonts.conf? No, the rendering libraries (mainly cairo, it's about --enable-system-cairo flag). Anyway, let's first try to find out why subpixel rendering doesn't look good for you. Please have a look at http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/img/subpixel.png to find out the subpixel-order of your screen. I think that I see a very tiny black edge on the left side. Which means RGB, I guess. I haven't seen anything else than RGB, I think others are very rare (unless you rotate your monitor ;-). Vlada smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ nix-dev mailing list nix-dev@lists.science.uu.nl http://lists.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/nix-dev
Re: [Nix-dev] firefox 21 font rendering
On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 02:07:08PM +0200, Mathijs Kwik wrote: > > The old behavior (ff20) was not to use the system libraries and thus > not use the system-wide font rendering config, but use an oldschool > default, regardless of the rest of the system. With system-wide you mean settings in fonts.conf? > Anyway, let's first try to find out why subpixel rendering doesn't > look good for you. > Please have a look at http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/img/subpixel.png to > find out the subpixel-order of your screen. I think that I see a very tiny black edge on the left side. Which means RGB, I guess. After reviewing the screenshots, I still think that 21 is just a blurry version of 20. Even when displayed by ff on OSX. ___ nix-dev mailing list nix-dev@lists.science.uu.nl http://lists.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/nix-dev
Re: [Nix-dev] firefox 21 font rendering
On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 2:20 PM, Vladimír Čunát wrote: > On 06/20/2013 02:07 PM, Mathijs Kwik wrote: >>> >>> From the screenshots, it's clear that firefox 21 uses subpixel rendering. >> >> The 20 screenshot only has grayscale anti-aliasing. >> >> To me, the 21 rendering (in your screenshots) looks much better, >> sharper, clearer. > > > The point is that with system cairo you get consistent rendering in the > whole system. Now with infinality you can tweak the rendering style to > anything you want (or switch it off). > > >> But there are times when subpixel rendering does not work out well. >> - On a VGA output - because it lacks (sub)pixel-perfect targeting of >> output pixels >> - Some outputs don't have RGB subpixel order but BGR >> - When rotating your display, the default RGB subpixel rendering >> should change to V-RGB. >>xrandr and other tools do not always detect this correctly > > > I think all this can be set. CRTs do have sub-pixels -- I admit that > subpixel rendering is not important there, but who really uses CRT nowadays. Indeed I forgot to mention CRTs :) But as CRTs have always had VGA connectors, they fall into the VGA trap. VGA is not able to target each and every hardware pixel individually (even after careful calibration). Not on CRTs, and not on LCDs. So when a pixel falls between 2 hardware pixels the result gets smeared out over both. This will look odd, especially when fonts were subpixel-rendered. > > > Vlada > > > > ___ > nix-dev mailing list > nix-dev@lists.science.uu.nl > http://lists.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/nix-dev > ___ nix-dev mailing list nix-dev@lists.science.uu.nl http://lists.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/nix-dev
Re: [Nix-dev] firefox 21 font rendering
On 06/20/2013 02:07 PM, Mathijs Kwik wrote: From the screenshots, it's clear that firefox 21 uses subpixel rendering. The 20 screenshot only has grayscale anti-aliasing. To me, the 21 rendering (in your screenshots) looks much better, sharper, clearer. The point is that with system cairo you get consistent rendering in the whole system. Now with infinality you can tweak the rendering style to anything you want (or switch it off). But there are times when subpixel rendering does not work out well. - On a VGA output - because it lacks (sub)pixel-perfect targeting of output pixels - Some outputs don't have RGB subpixel order but BGR - When rotating your display, the default RGB subpixel rendering should change to V-RGB. xrandr and other tools do not always detect this correctly I think all this can be set. CRTs do have sub-pixels -- I admit that subpixel rendering is not important there, but who really uses CRT nowadays. Vlada smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ nix-dev mailing list nix-dev@lists.science.uu.nl http://lists.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/nix-dev
Re: [Nix-dev] firefox 21 font rendering
>From the screenshots, it's clear that firefox 21 uses subpixel rendering. The 20 screenshot only has grayscale anti-aliasing. To me, the 21 rendering (in your screenshots) looks much better, sharper, clearer. But there are times when subpixel rendering does not work out well. - On a VGA output - because it lacks (sub)pixel-perfect targeting of output pixels - Some outputs don't have RGB subpixel order but BGR - When rotating your display, the default RGB subpixel rendering should change to V-RGB. xrandr and other tools do not always detect this correctly There are ways to configure these, or to turn off subpixel rendering, but I don't know the details. Also, this is not firefox related I think. The old behavior (ff20) was not to use the system libraries and thus not use the system-wide font rendering config, but use an oldschool default, regardless of the rest of the system. The only thing that changed for ff21 is that it now does things the same way as other applications. Anyway, let's first try to find out why subpixel rendering doesn't look good for you. Please have a look at http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/img/subpixel.png to find out the subpixel-order of your screen. On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 1:53 PM, Petar Bogdanovic wrote: > Hi, > > while the search box is working again in the latest pre-built firefox > 21, font rendering changed too. It's not ugly but it's not as good as > whatever was there before. See cropped screenshots: > > http://smokva.net/ff/20.png > http://smokva.net/ff/21.png > > I'm not sure if the binary I'm using reflects the latest commit (the one > making system-cairo optional) so it's possible that my build is out of > date again. > > Thanks, > > Petar Bogdanovic > ___ > nix-dev mailing list > nix-dev@lists.science.uu.nl > http://lists.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/nix-dev ___ nix-dev mailing list nix-dev@lists.science.uu.nl http://lists.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/nix-dev
Re: [Nix-dev] firefox 21 font rendering
Hi. On 06/20/2013 01:53 PM, Petar Bogdanovic wrote: while the search box is working again in the latest pre-built firefox 21, font rendering changed too. It's not ugly but it's not as good as whatever was there before. See cropped screenshots: http://smokva.net/ff/20.png http://smokva.net/ff/21.png I'm not sure if the binary I'm using reflects the latest commit (the one making system-cairo optional) so it's possible that my build is out of date again. The system cairo option causes problems (Linux-wide) and I found no distribution that would stabilize it enough to make it the default. You can add yourself to the push on Mozilla https://bugzil.la/856419 Switching it on causes nothing worse than the redrawing artifacts, but it's very often (at least for me) and so it doesn't seem beneficial to make it default. Vlada smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ nix-dev mailing list nix-dev@lists.science.uu.nl http://lists.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/nix-dev
[Nix-dev] firefox 21 font rendering
Hi, while the search box is working again in the latest pre-built firefox 21, font rendering changed too. It's not ugly but it's not as good as whatever was there before. See cropped screenshots: http://smokva.net/ff/20.png http://smokva.net/ff/21.png I'm not sure if the binary I'm using reflects the latest commit (the one making system-cairo optional) so it's possible that my build is out of date again. Thanks, Petar Bogdanovic ___ nix-dev mailing list nix-dev@lists.science.uu.nl http://lists.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/nix-dev
