Re: [Nix-dev] Fundraiser?

[Domen Kožar]

On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 5:28 PM, Vladimír Čunát  wrote:

> On 12/11/2015 05:24 PM, Domen Kožar wrote:
> > What usually happens in "bigger" enterprises is that they hire someone
> > internally that doesn't have enough expertise and then he/she would bug
> > upstream developers to provide help for free. That's where we have a
> > problem in general :)
>
> I see. IMHO they need to realize that outsourcing such things is
> actually cheaper. From the community side it's in general impossible to
> recognize such cases from people "trying on their own" (not for money).
>

Agreed - but actualizing that is really hard in real world - as any
communication.
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Re: [Nix-dev] Fundraiser?

[Vladimír Čunát]

On 12/08/2015 05:22 PM, Domen Kožar wrote:
> There are lots of debates how enterprises should/could fund open source
> instead of expecting free labor, but we're not there yet :-)

What works well IMO is that company wants to use an open-source tool
(e.g. nix*) to do something (e.g. CI), but some pieces are missing, so
they pay some experienced freelancer(s) from the community to get the
work done. During that, some improvements to the tool might be done and
contributed to the community afterwards.

Vladimir




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Re: [Nix-dev] Fundraiser?

[Vladimír Čunát]

On 12/11/2015 05:24 PM, Domen Kožar wrote:
> What usually happens in "bigger" enterprises is that they hire someone
> internally that doesn't have enough expertise and then he/she would bug
> upstream developers to provide help for free. That's where we have a
> problem in general :)

I see. IMHO they need to realize that outsourcing such things is
actually cheaper. From the community side it's in general impossible to
recognize such cases from people "trying on their own" (not for money).




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Re: [Nix-dev] Fundraiser?

[Domen Kožar]

This is a good example of what I meant:
https://github.com/pybee/paying-the-piper

On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 5:22 PM, Domen Kožar  wrote:

> There are lots of debates how enterprises should/could fund open source
> instead of expecting free labor, but we're not there yet :-)
>
> On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 5:17 PM, Profpatsch  wrote:
>
>> On 15-12-07 04:36pm, Tomasz Czyż wrote:
>> > https://www.bountysource.com/search?query=nixos - maybe this is good
>> > enough, no? Just needs a little more advertisement :-)
>>
>> My problem with Bountysource is that most bounties are a flipping joke
>> compared to what someone would earn in even badly paid jobs in the
>> industry.
>>
>> I mean, take a (small) hourly rate of maybe 30€.
>>
>> “Getting rid of the Perl dependency”: Without true knowledge of the
>> internals,
>> I’d estimate 100–1000 hours of work. That’s ~10k€–30k€. The bounty is
>> 250€.
>> nixos-assimilate: aszlig has put in at least 50–100 hours of work. And
>> I’m sure
>> aszlig takes more than 30€/hour for his day job. That’s ~5k€. The bounty
>> is $50.
>>
>>
>> People need to get real. Software companies need to get real. If they
>> need good
>> systems, the should start to invest. Now. Big time. At least 10% of their
>> money.
>>
>> My 2 cents.
>>
>> --
>> Proudly written in Mutt with Vim on NixOS.
>> Q: Why is this email five sentences or less?
>> A: http://five.sentenc.es
>> May take up to five days to read your message. If it’s urgent, call me.
>> ___
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>> http://lists.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/nix-dev
>>
>
>
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Re: [Nix-dev] Fundraiser?

[Tomasz Czyż]

2015-12-07 18:29 GMT+00:00 Matthias Beyer :

> On 07-12-2015 16:36:50, Tomasz Czyż wrote:
> > https://www.bountysource.com/search?query=nixos - maybe this is good
> > enough, no? Just needs a little more advertisement :-)
>
> This points to the old nixos package repository (github.com/nixos/nixos
> <- why
> does this still exist???) - I'd consider this site dead if I see this,
> really!
>

I was pointing to the idea not to the perfect solution. Maybe after small
reorganization or some improvements this platform can be used without huge
effort preparing papers, legal stuff etc.

>
> --
> Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
> Kind regards,
> Matthias Beyer
>
> Proudly sent with mutt.
> Happily signed with gnupg.
>



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Re: [Nix-dev] Fundraiser?

[Profpatsch]

On 15-12-07 04:36pm, Tomasz Czyż wrote:
> https://www.bountysource.com/search?query=nixos - maybe this is good
> enough, no? Just needs a little more advertisement :-)

My problem with Bountysource is that most bounties are a flipping joke
compared to what someone would earn in even badly paid jobs in the
industry.

I mean, take a (small) hourly rate of maybe 30€.

“Getting rid of the Perl dependency”: Without true knowledge of the internals,
I’d estimate 100–1000 hours of work. That’s ~10k€–30k€. The bounty is 250€.
nixos-assimilate: aszlig has put in at least 50–100 hours of work. And I’m sure
aszlig takes more than 30€/hour for his day job. That’s ~5k€. The bounty is $50.


People need to get real. Software companies need to get real. If they need good
systems, the should start to invest. Now. Big time. At least 10% of their money.

My 2 cents.

-- 
Proudly written in Mutt with Vim on NixOS.
Q: Why is this email five sentences or less?
A: http://five.sentenc.es
May take up to five days to read your message. If it’s urgent, call me.
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Re: [Nix-dev] Fundraiser?

[Domen Kožar]

There are lots of debates how enterprises should/could fund open source
instead of expecting free labor, but we're not there yet :-)

On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 5:17 PM, Profpatsch  wrote:

> On 15-12-07 04:36pm, Tomasz Czyż wrote:
> > https://www.bountysource.com/search?query=nixos - maybe this is good
> > enough, no? Just needs a little more advertisement :-)
>
> My problem with Bountysource is that most bounties are a flipping joke
> compared to what someone would earn in even badly paid jobs in the
> industry.
>
> I mean, take a (small) hourly rate of maybe 30€.
>
> “Getting rid of the Perl dependency”: Without true knowledge of the
> internals,
> I’d estimate 100–1000 hours of work. That’s ~10k€–30k€. The bounty is 250€.
> nixos-assimilate: aszlig has put in at least 50–100 hours of work. And I’m
> sure
> aszlig takes more than 30€/hour for his day job. That’s ~5k€. The bounty
> is $50.
>
>
> People need to get real. Software companies need to get real. If they need
> good
> systems, the should start to invest. Now. Big time. At least 10% of their
> money.
>
> My 2 cents.
>
> --
> Proudly written in Mutt with Vim on NixOS.
> Q: Why is this email five sentences or less?
> A: http://five.sentenc.es
> May take up to five days to read your message. If it’s urgent, call me.
> ___
> nix-dev mailing list
> nix-dev@lists.science.uu.nl
> http://lists.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/nix-dev
>
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Re: [Nix-dev] Fundraiser?

[Tadas Barzdžius]

Maybe NixOS foundation could create Patreon page/project or something
similar?  I would happily chip in.

Tadas Barzdžius


On Tue, Dec 8, 2015, at 06:22 PM, Domen Kožar wrote:
> There are lots of debates how enterprises should/could fund open
> source instead of expecting free labor, but we're not there yet :-)
>
> On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 5:17 PM, Profpatsch  wrote:
>> On 15-12-07 04:36pm, Tomasz Czyż wrote:
>>
> https://www.bountysource.com/search?query=nixos - maybe this is good
>>
> enough, no? Just needs a little more advertisement :-)
>>
>> My problem with Bountysource is that most bounties are a
>> flipping joke
>>
compared to what someone would earn in even badly paid jobs in the
>>
industry.
>>
>>
I mean, take a (small) hourly rate of maybe 30€.
>>
>>
“Getting rid of the Perl dependency”: Without true knowledge of the
internals,
>>
I’d estimate 100–1000 hours of work. That’s ~10k€–30k€. The
bounty is 250€.
>>
nixos-assimilate: aszlig has put in at least 50–100 hours of work.
And I’m sure
>>
aszlig takes more than 30€/hour for his day job. That’s ~5k€. The
bounty is $50.
>>
>>
>>
People need to get real. Software companies need to get real. If
they need good
>>
systems, the should start to invest. Now. Big time. At least 10% of
their money.
>>
>>
My 2 cents.
>>
>>
--
>> 
Proudly written in Mutt with Vim on NixOS.
>> 
Q: Why is this email five sentences or less?
>> 
A: http://five.sentenc.es
>> 
May take up to five days to read your message. If it’s urgent, call me.
>> ___
>> 
nix-dev mailing list
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>> http://lists.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/nix-dev
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Re: [Nix-dev] Fundraiser?

[Eelco Dolstra]

Hi,

On 07/12/15 17:33, Thomas Hunger wrote:

> There's the foundation https://nixos.org/nixos/foundation.html which would be 
> a
> great structure to collect and direct money.

Yes, although I don't think the foundation is currently set up to pay developers
(maybe Rob can comment on this).

Another possibility might be to go via the NLnet Foundation [1]. From my
understanding based on a chat I recently had with them, they can take donations
from companies that want a certain feature (say, adding some backend to NixOps)
and then pay the developer, ensuring the donation is tax-deductible as a 
charity.

> Eelco - I'm not sure where to look so I couldn't find anything about the
> foundation's activity. Do you keep meeting notes somewhere online?

Unfortunately not yet, we're still waiting for our secretary to type in his
scribblings from the two board meetings we've had :-)

[1] https://nlnet.nl/foundation/can_do.html

-- 
Eelco Dolstra | LogicBlox, Inc. | http://nixos.org/~eelco/
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Re: [Nix-dev] Fundraiser?

[Tomasz Czyż]

https://www.bountysource.com/search?query=nixos - maybe this is good
enough, no? Just needs a little more advertisement :-)

2015-12-07 16:33 GMT+00:00 Thomas Hunger :

> There's the foundation https://nixos.org/nixos/foundation.html which
> would be a great structure to collect and direct money.
>
> Eelco - I'm not sure where to look so I couldn't find anything about the
> foundation's activity. Do you keep meeting notes somewhere online?
>
> best,
> Tom
>
>
>
> On 7 December 2015 at 15:10, Bjørn Forsman 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I've been a Nix/NixOS user for a few years now. While some parts of
>> NixOS are moving forward rather quickly (awesome!), some of the Nix
>> tooling is improving painfully slow (IMHO). I was wondering if any
>> core devs have considered starting a fundraiser to possibly work
>> full-time on some issues?
>>
>> Some things I'd really like to see happen (and support financially):
>>
>> * Better UI. I think there are many GitHub issues about this already,
>> but I really like what's being pointed out here:
>> https://github.com/NixOS/nix/issues/684#issuecomment-154502504.
>>
>> * Better support for Nix as a 3rd party package solution. Be able to
>> build a distro agnostic package on a Nix system and deploy it
>> (trivially) to other systems (that may not even have Nix).
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Bjørn Forsman
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>
>
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Re: [Nix-dev] Fundraiser?

[Thomas Hunger]

There's the foundation https://nixos.org/nixos/foundation.html which would
be a great structure to collect and direct money.

Eelco - I'm not sure where to look so I couldn't find anything about the
foundation's activity. Do you keep meeting notes somewhere online?

best,
Tom



On 7 December 2015 at 15:10, Bjørn Forsman  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I've been a Nix/NixOS user for a few years now. While some parts of
> NixOS are moving forward rather quickly (awesome!), some of the Nix
> tooling is improving painfully slow (IMHO). I was wondering if any
> core devs have considered starting a fundraiser to possibly work
> full-time on some issues?
>
> Some things I'd really like to see happen (and support financially):
>
> * Better UI. I think there are many GitHub issues about this already,
> but I really like what's being pointed out here:
> https://github.com/NixOS/nix/issues/684#issuecomment-154502504.
>
> * Better support for Nix as a 3rd party package solution. Be able to
> build a distro agnostic package on a Nix system and deploy it
> (trivially) to other systems (that may not even have Nix).
>
> Best regards,
> Bjørn Forsman
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Re: [Nix-dev] Fundraiser?

[Rok Garbas]

Quoting Bjørn Forsman (2015-12-07 20:45:49)
> On 7 December 2015 at 17:36, Tomasz Czyż  wrote:
> > https://www.bountysource.com/search?query=nixos - maybe this is good enough,
> > no? Just needs a little more advertisement :-)
> 
> I added some bounties :-)
> 

I think for bounties of smaller size bountysource would work best, plus we
already have $225 on "Get rid of the Perl dependency"[1] ticket :)

I've also chipped in few bucks. Help spread the word.


[1] https://www.bountysource.com/issues/4399291-get-rid-of-the-perl-dependency

--
Rok Garbas - http://www.garbas.si


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Re: [Nix-dev] Fundraiser?

[Bjørn Forsman]

On 7 December 2015 at 17:36, Tomasz Czyż  wrote:
> https://www.bountysource.com/search?query=nixos - maybe this is good enough,
> no? Just needs a little more advertisement :-)

I added some bounties :-)

Best regards,
Bjørn Forsman
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Re: [Nix-dev] Fundraiser?

[Matthias Beyer]

On 07-12-2015 16:36:50, Tomasz Czyż wrote:
> https://www.bountysource.com/search?query=nixos - maybe this is good
> enough, no? Just needs a little more advertisement :-)

This points to the old nixos package repository (github.com/nixos/nixos <- why
does this still exist???) - I'd consider this site dead if I see this, really!

-- 
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Kind regards,
Matthias Beyer

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