Re: [Nix-dev] Fwd: Improving the Developer Experience in the Nix Community

2012-06-30 Thread Florian Friesdorf
On Fri, 29 Jun 2012 16:50:26 +0200, Bryce L Nordgren bnordg...@gmail.com 
wrote:
 Consensus as the only operating rule excludes Nix from the workplace.
 Nearly all workplaces have nonnegotiable policies, and it's likely that
 these will not be compatible. So there must always be an adaptation layer
 between a more or less generic distribution and the specific policies on
 site. The adaption layer is bidirectional: the distribution should be
 prepared to accept and de-specialize contributions from any particular
 environment, just as each participant must be prepared to specialize the
 generic distribution to their needs.

 An important part of Consensus is recognizing when it doesn't apply.

Sorry, I can't follow your argument / do not understand how this
collides with consensus and why you think it does not apply. 

Can you describe why specifically it does not apply? I don't mean that
we should use the exact implementation of noisebridge, but I'd love if
we'd come up with our own one.

To my knowledge at noisebridge nobody blocked (since it's existence in
2007?) but instead on occation people indicated that they would block
and they'd like to discuss things further.

As I understand it, it is not about blocking ideas but about forming
them so everybody can agree with them (maybe with grinding teeth).

regards
florian
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Re: [Nix-dev] Fwd: Improving the Developer Experience in the Nix Community

2012-06-29 Thread Cillian de RĂ³iste
On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 4:50 PM, Bryce L Nordgren bnordg...@gmail.com wrote:
 -- Forwarded message --
 From: Bryce L Nordgren bnordg...@gmail.com
 Date: Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 4:48 PM
 Subject: Re: [Nix-dev] Improving the Developer Experience in the Nix
 Community
 To: 7c6f4...@mail.ru


 On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 4:41 PM, Michael Raskin 7c6f4...@mail.ru wrote:

 It does look that currently it is unattainable as such on some
 questions. Consensus is good when it is feasible, but with some amount
 of differences it is too much to ask for.


 Consensus as the only operating rule excludes Nix from the workplace. Nearly
 all workplaces have nonnegotiable policies, and it's likely that these will
 not be compatible. So there must always be an adaptation layer between a
 more or less generic distribution and the specific policies on site. The
 adaption layer is bidirectional: the distribution should be prepared to
 accept and de-specialize contributions from any particular environment, just
 as each participant must be prepared to specialize the generic distribution
 to their needs.

 An important part of Consensus is recognizing when it doesn't apply.

The consensus process sounds very interesting to me. I can't think of
any particular cases which would infringe on a workplace policy
personally. If I understand correctly, the idea is that you vote
against (block) things you feel strongly should not happen, so it's
just the opposite of a normal voting process where you vote in favor
of a proposal. With the normal voting process a decision can be
accepted even if some people are strongly against it. With the
consensus process everybody doesn't have to agree or think that the
solution is the best possible one, it just needs to be the case that
nobody is strongly against it.

Whether someone has the right to vote with either system is difficult
to determine, and a single blocker is more powerful than a single
voter so that may make it tricky to apply. I can see why it makes
sense for members to be physically present at a meeting to work out
differences of opinion. I wouldn't rule it out as an optional decision
making process just yet though.
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