Re: [nmh-workers] #ifdef UK
Date:Sat, 18 May 2019 23:58:17 +0100 From:spaceman Message-ID: <20190518225817.c1f3b...@enterprise.home.antispaceman.com> Ralph has already answered (I was offline for a "power maintenance" day all day today...), but... | It might be pure opinion but I don't think M/D is "stupid" when put in | context for example: | | -MM-DDTHH:MM:SS No, that's fine, but that's MM-DD (sometimes just MMDD) and is preceded by the year (when it is included), if anyone were to write MM-DD- that would be just as stupid as M/D/Y (or its M/D contraction). Putting the smallest unit in the middle is absurd (and yes, counting in German is just as bad.) | Some people | write left to right others right to left, (and if you really going for | it, top to bottom and bottom to top), which one of those is "stupid"? None of them, as they're all internally consistent - they're just different. But if someone decided to write left to right for the first four words of each line, then switch to right to left for the next three words, and then finish the line left to right again, as if the previous line (to this one) was written: next three words, and line left to right again, as if eht hsinif neht I think you'd agree, that would be stupid. kre -- nmh-workers https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers
Re: [nmh-workers] #ifdef UK
Hi spaceman, > > as an arg to scan (either via -format or -form) whether numeric > > dates are printed as D/M (the sane way) or M/D (stupid). > > It might be pure opinion but I don't think M/D is "stupid" when put in > context for example: > > -MM-DDTHH:MM:SS > 2019-05-18T23:43:15 But M/D's context is not ISO, it is M/D/Y, and that's stupid. It predates the ISO format you mention in its defence by quite some time. It's like an inverse medal-winner's podium. D/M's context is D/M/Y and that's a more sane. Y/M/D obviously sorts better thus ISO. -- Cheers, Ralph. -- nmh-workers https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers
Re: [nmh-workers] #ifdef UK
Hi, Robert Elz wrote: > as an arg to scan (either via -format or -form) whether numeric > dates are printed as D/M (the sane way) or M/D (stupid). It might be pure opinion but I don't think M/D is "stupid" when put in context for example: -MM-DDTHH:MM:SS 2019-05-18T23:43:15 is an ISO format and it makes sense because you start with biggest unit and end with the smallest. You write numbers starting with biggest unit, so why not dates? I take issue with you calling the format "stupid" simply because you are not used it or you were raised with a different format. Some people write left to right others right to left, (and if you really going for it, top to bottom and bottom to top), which one of those is "stupid"? Regards, spaceman -- nmh-workers https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers
Re: [nmh-workers] #ifdef UK
>Is the UK option about JANET?
>Which had domain names as com.pobox ?
No. Here's all it used to do:
#ifndef UK
#define FORMAT \
"%4(msg)%<(cur)+%| %>%<{replied}-%?{encrypted}E%| %>\
%02(mon{date})/%02(mday{date})%<{date} %|*%>\
%<(mymbox{from})%<{to}To:%14(friendly{to})%>%>%<(zero)%17(friendly{from})%> \
%{subject}%<{body}<<%{body}>>%>\n"
#else /* UK */
#define FORMAT \
"%4(msg)%<(cur)+%| %>%<{replied}-%?{encrypted}E%| %>\
%02(mday{date})/%02(mon{date})%<{date} %|*%>\
%<(mymbox{from})%<{to}To:%14(friendly{to})%>%>%<(zero)%17(friendly{from})%> \
%{subject}%<{body}<<%{body}>>%>\n"
#endif /* UK */
That is literally all it did.
--Ken
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Re: [nmh-workers] #ifdef UK
Is the UK option about JANET? Which had domain names as com.pobox ? -- ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh networks [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works|IoT architect [ ] m...@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/| ruby on rails[ signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- nmh-workers https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers
Re: [nmh-workers] #ifdef UK
On Sun, 19 May 2019 01:24:26 +0700, Robert Elz said: > That's it, entirely -- nothing related to ancient UK backwards domain > names or anything else exotic like that. I always wished the rest of the Internet had gone that way - it would have made it at least theoretically possible to tab-complete through a domain name. Until we lost the plot on the whole 'tree structure' and dumped 140 million similar names into .com, anyhow... pgpWER0xnmgFc.pgp Description: PGP signature -- nmh-workers https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers
Re: [nmh-workers] #ifdef UK
Date:Sat, 18 May 2019 11:56:41 -0400 From:"Valdis Kl=?utf-8?Q?=c4=93?=tnieks" Message-ID: <25567.1558195001@turing-police> | As noted elsewhere, it probably shouldn't be an ifdef. This is one of those cases where there isn't a lot of choice though. That is, it already can be configured, the setting of the ifdef doesn't need to make any difference (which is why I no longer bother with it, though in the past I used to build MH with UK defined). That is, what this is providing is the default to use when there is no provided config - something has to happen in that case, and is (or will be from what is just below, most likely) obvious that we aren't lkikely to agree on what the "no config at all" behaviour ought to be. I guess we could add yet another option which chooses the default for when one of the other options doesn't remove the need to use that default, that would kind of be the MH way, but really! | On top of that, the behavior selected isn't even specific to the | UK - large chunks of the non-UK part of the planet do things that | way as well. Yes. So much so that I would say that if the #ifndef goes away, then it should use "UK" mode as the default, rather than the other. (etc/scan.default & etc/scan.nomime should be updated as well) For anyone who hasn't looked at the source, and worked it out yet, what this is about is whether when the scan format isn't specified as an arg to scan (either via -format or -form) whether numeric dates are printed as D/M (the sane way) or M/D (stupid). If a new option were to be provided to select the default order for when one is not provided, it should not be "-ukdates" but "-usdates", as that one is the weird special case, and should default to off (ad like all the boolean options, would have a -nousdates companion option for when the user's profile has accidentally set that option, and the user, or some intelligent script, realises that they really don't want to use it.) That's it, entirely -- nothing related to ancient UK backwards domain names or anything else exotic like that. kre -- nmh-workers https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers
Re: [nmh-workers] #ifdef UK
On Fri, 17 May 2019 14:01:53 -0400, Ken Hornstein said: > Apologies to our friends across the pond, but I noticed the #ifdef UK > in scansbr.h today, and I couldn't help wonder if anyone still uses this. As noted elsewhere, it probably shouldn't be an ifdef. On top of that, the behavior selected isn't even specific to the UK - large chunks of the non-UK part of the planet do things that way as well. pgpARgdhOZ0yj.pgp Description: PGP signature -- nmh-workers https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers
Re: [nmh-workers] #ifdef UK
Hi Ken, > Apologies to our friends across the pond, but I noticed the #ifdef UK > in scansbr.h today, and I couldn't help wonder if anyone still uses > this. This imperialist never has. -- Cheers, Ralph. -- nmh-workers https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers
Re: [nmh-workers] #ifdef UK
we should remove all feature or behaviour ifdef's. those things should be configured at runtime, in config files or command line options. code size is not the menace it once was. only things that won't compile everywhere need ifdef, and only for the non-portable bits. -- nmh-workers https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers
[nmh-workers] #ifdef UK
Apologies to our friends across the pond, but I noticed the #ifdef UK in scansbr.h today, and I couldn't help wonder if anyone still uses this. I see back in the day there was a "UK" option you could feed into the config file and mhconfig (ugh) would generate the appropriate -D compiler option. Does anyone add '-DUK' to CFLAGS when building nmh? I just think that nowadays picking the scan format at runtime would make more sense. Objections to me removing it? --Ken -- nmh-workers https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers
