[jira] [Commented] (OFBIZ-13049) Configurable Main page
[
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-13049?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel=17845810#comment-17845810
]
Pierre Smits commented on OFBIZ-13049:
--
{quote}Perhaps you it would help us understand your position if you provide
some non-portlet examples of how OFBiz uses data to dynamically to affect the
user experience.
{quote}
I suggest when logging in at any application in
[https://demo-trunk.ofbiz.apache.org/] to use a userLoginId other than one
associated with the admin party.
In every place where the condition 'hasPermission' is used users have a data
driven experience.
> Configurable Main page
> --
>
> Key: OFBIZ-13049
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-13049
> Project: OFBiz
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Components: ALL APPLICATIONS
>Reporter: Pierre Smits
>Priority: Major
> Attachments: CommonPortletData.xml
>
>
> Currently the OFBiz product has configurable Main pages in applications
> Accounting, Order, SFA, and plugin MyPortal. Unfortunately, none in the
> community felt the urge to implement the concept further in other
> applications.
> Having a configurable Main page of an application improves both the appeal of
> OFBiz to (potential) adopters and their users, and to developers.
> With a configurable Main page, developers have less screens to consider when
> doing customisation, while at the same time trying to stay in sync with
> changes from the project.
--
This message was sent by Atlassian Jira
(v8.20.10#820010)
[jira] [Commented] (OFBIZ-13049) Configurable Main page
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-13049?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel=17845790#comment-17845790 ] Pierre Smits commented on OFBIZ-13049: -- Hi [~danwatford], Yes, SMART is an acronym. See:[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMART_criteria] > Configurable Main page > -- > > Key: OFBIZ-13049 > URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-13049 > Project: OFBiz > Issue Type: Improvement > Components: ALL APPLICATIONS >Reporter: Pierre Smits >Priority: Major > Attachments: CommonPortletData.xml > > > Currently the OFBiz product has configurable Main pages in applications > Accounting, Order, SFA, and plugin MyPortal. Unfortunately, none in the > community felt the urge to implement the concept further in other > applications. > Having a configurable Main page of an application improves both the appeal of > OFBiz to (potential) adopters and their users, and to developers. > With a configurable Main page, developers have less screens to consider when > doing customisation, while at the same time trying to stay in sync with > changes from the project. -- This message was sent by Atlassian Jira (v8.20.10#820010)
[jira] [Commented] (OFBIZ-13049) Configurable Main page
[
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-13049?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel=17845587#comment-17845587
]
Daniel Watford commented on OFBIZ-13049:
Hi [~pierresmits]
{quote}Regarding the feedback from Daniel, I repeat what I commented earlier:
I am just utilising what is available OOTB. implemented and reviewed by quite a
few contributors in the period between 2008 and 2010 (amongst other Bruno
Busco, David Jones and even you) under ticket OFBIZ-1999 and follow-ups.
{quote}
I don't think you addressed my comment other than saying their is prior-art for
your suggestion. We also support mini-lang OOTB, but would not encourage its
use. A lot has changed in development approaches in the ~15 years since the
portlets proposed to try and contain definitions of systems as version
controllable code (e.g. infrastructure-as-code movements).
That being said, I do see frequent use of 'Dashboard Builders' in systems where
users can build their own dashboards out of 'widgets' to display information to
meet their needs. But the crucial difference is that these dashboard widgets
then provide links to standard pages where the users interact with entities.
The dashboards are a separate concern to the main system screens.
{quote} Introducing another layer of indirection via the database will reduce
the navigability of the UI further.
We use data everywhere to showcase the flexibility and usability of OFBiz. The
user experience (the appeal of OFBiz as an Open Source business management and
e-commerce solution) is dependent on data.
{quote}
Perhaps you it would help us understand your position if you provide some
non-portlet examples of how OFBiz uses data to dynamically to affect the user
experience.
{quote}I can imagine that a lot of developers (and their employers) could be
angry with their customization experience.
If only they would come forward and would make actionable suggestions (e.g. in
the form of Jira ticket), the project (and its contributors) would have
something to work with.
{quote}
Is there any evidence that people are angry with the customisation experience?
Users/Customisers are unlikely to monitor Jira, but they might raise their
concerns on the user mailing list if prompted.
However, even if users/customisers did highlight issues, portlets still might
not be a good solution.
With forthcoming work around REST, I think we might solutions on the
client-side might offer a customisation route without impacting on server-side
implementation.
As an example, SharePoint Online offers UI extension points in the
header/footer of a page where Javascript can render whatever if needs without
intereferring with SharePoint's own UI implementation -
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/sharepoint/dev/spfx/extensions/overview-extensions
{quote}...can be improved by the community in a SMART way.
{quote}
Is SMART an acronym or are you just highlighting the word to try and imply that
an alternative approach is not smart? Use of the later technique is something
that really annoys me as they are normally an attempt to shutdown debate. I
have read the riot act to many a sales person that has begun a sentence with
'obviously'!
{quote}...seems to be something to discuss in dev ML. But IIRW you can't write
there, right?
{quote}
I think Jacques is right. This topic is too large to discuss in a Jira ticket's
comments as it will need support from the wider OFBiz developer community which
utilises the Dev mailing list.
Therefore I think you need to find a way to resolve the matters that currently
prevent your writing to the dev mailing list before we can progress this topic
further.
> Configurable Main page
> --
>
> Key: OFBIZ-13049
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-13049
> Project: OFBiz
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Components: ALL APPLICATIONS
>Reporter: Pierre Smits
>Priority: Major
> Attachments: CommonPortletData.xml
>
>
> Currently the OFBiz product has configurable Main pages in applications
> Accounting, Order, SFA, and plugin MyPortal. Unfortunately, none in the
> community felt the urge to implement the concept further in other
> applications.
> Having a configurable Main page of an application improves both the appeal of
> OFBiz to (potential) adopters and their users, and to developers.
> With a configurable Main page, developers have less screens to consider when
> doing customisation, while at the same time trying to stay in sync with
> changes from the project.
--
This message was sent by Atlassian Jira
(v8.20.10#820010)
[jira] [Commented] (OFBIZ-13049) Configurable Main page
[
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-13049?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel=17845567#comment-17845567
]
Pierre Smits commented on OFBIZ-13049:
--
Hi Jacques,
Thank you for your reaction.
{quote}I re-read the comments above where Daniel and Michael were not
enthusiast.
{quote}
Regarding the feedback from Daniel, I repeat what I commented earlier:
{quote}I am just utilising what is available OOTB. implemented and reviewed by
quite a few contributors in the period between 2008 and 2010 (amongst other
Bruno Busco, David Jones and even you) under ticket OFBIZ-1999 and follow-ups.
{quote}
I am *not* introducing different technologies or concepts alien to what is
already available in the OFBiz. As for
{quote} Introducing another layer of indirection via the database will reduce
the navigability of the UI further.
{quote}
We use data everywhere to showcase the flexibility and usability of OFBiz. The
user experience (the appeal of OFBiz as an Open Source business management and
e-commerce solution) is dependent on data.
Similarly the customization appeal and experience is affected by hard coded
aspects. Everywhere we have that, we make it challenging for adopters to apply
and maintain their customizations without disrupting ongoing updates from the
OFBiz community. Having application main pages displaying what is most
important through PortalPortlet and associated records facilitate just that
flexibility and adaptability. I regard this ticket equally beneficial to
adopters and their developers as OFBIZ-12928.
{quote}Would you mind to assume this task before we continue with subtasks here?
{quote}
Thank you for the suggestion. I will keep it in mind for future consideration.
For now, I'm focused on prioritizing straightforward improvements that
significantly benefit both the user and developer experience.
Participating in an open source project is as much about enhancing the user and
developer experience through collaboration as it is about refining the
codebase. I truly value our positive collaborations I've had in this project
and look forward to more in the future.
This means that I don't just create new tickets for myself to work on; I also
do it to encourage fellow contributors to offer valuable feedback on the matter
at hand and to engage in the development process.
> Configurable Main page
> --
>
> Key: OFBIZ-13049
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-13049
> Project: OFBiz
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Components: ALL APPLICATIONS
>Reporter: Pierre Smits
>Priority: Major
> Attachments: CommonPortletData.xml
>
>
> Currently the OFBiz product has configurable Main pages in applications
> Accounting, Order, SFA, and plugin MyPortal. Unfortunately, none in the
> community felt the urge to implement the concept further in other
> applications.
> Having a configurable Main page of an application improves both the appeal of
> OFBiz to (potential) adopters and their users, and to developers.
> With a configurable Main page, developers have less screens to consider when
> doing customisation, while at the same time trying to stay in sync with
> changes from the project.
--
This message was sent by Atlassian Jira
(v8.20.10#820010)
[jira] [Commented] (OFBIZ-13049) Configurable Main page
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-13049?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel=17845557#comment-17845557 ] Jacques Le Roux commented on OFBIZ-13049: - For instance is not that easier to read: [^CommonPortletData.xml] > Configurable Main page > -- > > Key: OFBIZ-13049 > URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-13049 > Project: OFBiz > Issue Type: Improvement > Components: ALL APPLICATIONS >Reporter: Pierre Smits >Priority: Major > Attachments: CommonPortletData.xml > > > Currently the OFBiz product has configurable Main pages in applications > Accounting, Order, SFA, and plugin MyPortal. Unfortunately, none in the > community felt the urge to implement the concept further in other > applications. > Having a configurable Main page of an application improves both the appeal of > OFBiz to (potential) adopters and their users, and to developers. > With a configurable Main page, developers have less screens to consider when > doing customisation, while at the same time trying to stay in sync with > changes from the project. -- This message was sent by Atlassian Jira (v8.20.10#820010)
[jira] [Commented] (OFBIZ-13049) Configurable Main page
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-13049?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel=17845546#comment-17845546 ] Jacques Le Roux commented on OFBIZ-13049: - Hi Pierre, I re-read the comments above where Daniel and Michael were not enthusiast. This happened already with Mathieu and Nicolas in https://lists.apache.org/thread/wk0q5m409mm96kqsgymq6fhrsy7j7xvo. And Nicolas had a not so postive experience with portals. So there are obviously drawbacks. What are the advantages that decided you to use portals? In this thread, there is a point that held my attention. Mathieu said: bq. In any case providing a precise XML schema for screen/form elements is definitely a good idea. We already have that, that maybe could be improved. But we really miss the same for data used to define portals. So I strongly suggest that we create a shema for *PortletData.xml files. It should not be hard to create. It would help possible customers to create their own portals with a bit of documentation that seriously lacks for now. I also note that while adding the reference to a new PortletData.xsd in *PortletData.xml files we should correctly format files that are difficult to read when needed. CommonPortletData.xml comes to mind. Would you mind to assume this task before we continue with subtasks here? > Configurable Main page > -- > > Key: OFBIZ-13049 > URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-13049 > Project: OFBiz > Issue Type: Improvement > Components: ALL APPLICATIONS >Reporter: Pierre Smits >Priority: Major > > Currently the OFBiz product has configurable Main pages in applications > Accounting, Order, SFA, and plugin MyPortal. Unfortunately, none in the > community felt the urge to implement the concept further in other > applications. > Having a configurable Main page of an application improves both the appeal of > OFBiz to (potential) adopters and their users, and to developers. > With a configurable Main page, developers have less screens to consider when > doing customisation, while at the same time trying to stay in sync with > changes from the project. -- This message was sent by Atlassian Jira (v8.20.10#820010)
[jira] [Commented] (OFBIZ-13049) Configurable Main page
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-13049?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel=17840353#comment-17840353 ] Pierre Smits commented on OFBIZ-13049: -- I can imagine that a lot of developers (and their employers) could be angry with their customization experience. If only they would come forward and would make actionable suggestions (e.g. in the form of Jira ticket), the project (and its contributors) would have something to work with. > Configurable Main page > -- > > Key: OFBIZ-13049 > URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-13049 > Project: OFBiz > Issue Type: Improvement > Components: ALL APPLICATIONS >Reporter: Pierre Smits >Priority: Major > > Currently the OFBiz product has configurable Main pages in applications > Accounting, Order, SFA, and plugin MyPortal. Unfortunately, none in the > community felt the urge to implement the concept further in other > applications. > Having a configurable Main page of an application improves both the appeal of > OFBiz to (potential) adopters and their users, and to developers. > With a configurable Main page, developers have less screens to consider when > doing customisation, while at the same time trying to stay in sync with > changes from the project. -- This message was sent by Atlassian Jira (v8.20.10#820010)
[jira] [Commented] (OFBIZ-13049) Configurable Main page
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-13049?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel=17840348#comment-17840348 ] Michael Brohl commented on OFBIZ-13049: --- If there are solutions present which are problematic, we should not go this way further with new implementations. We should stop merging those solutions until those issues are discussed and we agreed to go this way. > Configurable Main page > -- > > Key: OFBIZ-13049 > URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-13049 > Project: OFBiz > Issue Type: Improvement > Components: ALL APPLICATIONS >Reporter: Pierre Smits >Priority: Major > > Currently the OFBiz product has configurable Main pages in applications > Accounting, Order, SFA, and plugin MyPortal. Unfortunately, none in the > community felt the urge to implement the concept further in other > applications. > Having a configurable Main page of an application improves both the appeal of > OFBiz to (potential) adopters and their users, and to developers. > With a configurable Main page, developers have less screens to consider when > doing customisation, while at the same time trying to stay in sync with > changes from the project. -- This message was sent by Atlassian Jira (v8.20.10#820010)
[jira] [Commented] (OFBIZ-13049) Configurable Main page
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-13049?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel=17840340#comment-17840340 ] Jacques Le Roux commented on OFBIZ-13049: - Hi, IMO, as long as we don't get too far with portlets I think it's OK. This was discussed in this thread by Nereides people who had a deep experience with: https://lists.apache.org/thread/wk0q5m409mm96kqsgymq6fhrsy7j7xvo I remember [~nmalin] being almost angry up with the experience they underwent. He may say a word about it :) > Configurable Main page > -- > > Key: OFBIZ-13049 > URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-13049 > Project: OFBiz > Issue Type: Improvement > Components: ALL APPLICATIONS >Reporter: Pierre Smits >Priority: Major > > Currently the OFBiz product has configurable Main pages in applications > Accounting, Order, SFA, and plugin MyPortal. Unfortunately, none in the > community felt the urge to implement the concept further in other > applications. > Having a configurable Main page of an application improves both the appeal of > OFBiz to (potential) adopters and their users, and to developers. > With a configurable Main page, developers have less screens to consider when > doing customisation, while at the same time trying to stay in sync with > changes from the project. -- This message was sent by Atlassian Jira (v8.20.10#820010)
[jira] [Commented] (OFBIZ-13049) Configurable Main page
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-13049?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel=17839836#comment-17839836 ] Pierre Smits commented on OFBIZ-13049: -- HI Jacques, I am just utilising what is available OOTB. Implemented and reviewed by quite a few contributors in the period between 2008 and 2010 (amongst other Bruno Busco, David Jones and even you) under ticket OFBIZ-1999 and follow-ups. Unfortunately I could not find any preceding discussion in ofbiz-dev. Maybe you have greater luck. . > Configurable Main page > -- > > Key: OFBIZ-13049 > URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-13049 > Project: OFBiz > Issue Type: Improvement > Components: ALL APPLICATIONS >Reporter: Pierre Smits >Priority: Major > > Currently the OFBiz product has configurable Main pages in applications > Accounting, Order, SFA, and plugin MyPortal. Unfortunately, none in the > community felt the urge to implement the concept further in other > applications. > Having a configurable Main page of an application improves both the appeal of > OFBiz to (potential) adopters and their users, and to developers. > With a configurable Main page, developers have less screens to consider when > doing customisation, while at the same time trying to stay in sync with > changes from the project. -- This message was sent by Atlassian Jira (v8.20.10#820010)
[jira] [Commented] (OFBIZ-13049) Configurable Main page
[
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-13049?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel=17839584#comment-17839584
]
Jacques Le Roux commented on OFBIZ-13049:
-
Pierre,
Now that you have set OFBIZ-12966 and OFBIZ-13011 as subtasks here, I better
understand what you mean by "Configurable Main page". By looking for
{{ Configurable Main page
> --
>
> Key: OFBIZ-13049
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-13049
> Project: OFBiz
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Components: ALL APPLICATIONS
>Reporter: Pierre Smits
>Priority: Major
>
> Currently the OFBiz product has configurable Main pages in applications
> Accounting, Order, SFA, and plugin MyPortal. Unfortunately, none in the
> community felt the urge to implement the concept further in other
> applications.
> Having a configurable Main page of an application improves both the appeal of
> OFBiz to (potential) adopters and their users, and to developers.
> With a configurable Main page, developers have less screens to consider when
> doing customisation, while at the same time trying to stay in sync with
> changes from the project.
--
This message was sent by Atlassian Jira
(v8.20.10#820010)
[jira] [Commented] (OFBIZ-13049) Configurable Main page
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-13049?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel=17839533#comment-17839533 ] Daniel Watford commented on OFBIZ-13049: Hi [~pierresmits] , I'm going to make an assumption that a configurable page means it is configured from the database. Please correct me if I am wrong. Without anyone able to point out the benefits of this approach, I don't think I am in support of this proposal. The OFBiz 'screen system' already has various layers of abstraction/indirection that can be quite confusing for a newcomer to navigate. Introducing another layer of indirection via the database will reduce the navigability of the UI further. This would seem counter productive to the intent of this ticket which is to increase the appeal to potential adopters and developers. In other development environments I find it more common to try and merge the different concerns of a software component into a single 'type' of source code. Examples would be React's use of JSX (Javascript XML) to reflect something close to the eventual HTML (DOM) rendered alongside javascript code, declaring CSS in javascript, or use of annotations to declare API entry points alongside the code that will implement the APIs. These days I think we want to find ways to better reflect the components we are building in fewer types of source code (java, xml, etc) and not introduce additional layers of complexity. > Configurable Main page > -- > > Key: OFBIZ-13049 > URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-13049 > Project: OFBiz > Issue Type: Improvement > Components: ALL APPLICATIONS >Reporter: Pierre Smits >Priority: Major > > Currently the OFBiz product has configurable Main pages in applications > Accounting, Order, SFA, and plugin MyPortal. Unfortunately, none in the > community felt the urge to implement the concept further in other > applications. > Having a configurable Main page of an application improves both the appeal of > OFBiz to (potential) adopters and their users, and to developers. > With a configurable Main page, developers have less screens to consider when > doing customisation, while at the same time trying to stay in sync with > changes from the project. -- This message was sent by Atlassian Jira (v8.20.10#820010)
[jira] [Commented] (OFBIZ-13049) Configurable Main page
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-13049?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel=17839376#comment-17839376 ] Michael Brohl commented on OFBIZ-13049: --- It would be better to first describe what should be done and how in a single issue (this one), get approval from the community that it should be done and deliver a first implementation for review. If this is sucessful, more subtasks might be reasonable if there is a plan to deliver the solutions. Creating a lot of tickets without substance or someone who intend to do the work just makes Jira confusing. If this is a feature request without a plan to do the work, this issue is sufficient and does not need subtasks until there ist someone who picks up the work. > Configurable Main page > -- > > Key: OFBIZ-13049 > URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-13049 > Project: OFBiz > Issue Type: Improvement > Components: ALL APPLICATIONS >Reporter: Pierre Smits >Priority: Major > > Currently the OFBiz product has configurable Main pages in applications > Accounting, Order, SFA, and plugin MyPortal. Unfortunately, none in the > community felt the urge to implement the concept further in other > applications. > Having a configurable Main page of an application improves both the appeal of > OFBiz to (potential) adopters and their users, and to developers. > With a configurable Main page, developers have less screens to consider when > doing customisation, while at the same time trying to stay in sync with > changes from the project. -- This message was sent by Atlassian Jira (v8.20.10#820010)
[jira] [Commented] (OFBIZ-13049) Configurable Main page
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-13049?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel=17839324#comment-17839324 ] Jacques Le Roux commented on OFBIZ-13049: - Hi Pierre, Still what is a "Configurable Main page"? > Configurable Main page > -- > > Key: OFBIZ-13049 > URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-13049 > Project: OFBiz > Issue Type: Improvement > Components: ALL APPLICATIONS >Reporter: Pierre Smits >Priority: Major > > Currently the OFBiz product has configurable Main pages in applications > Accounting, Order, SFA, and plugin MyPortal. Unfortunately, none in the > community felt the urge to implement the concept further in other > applications. > Having a configurable Main page of an application improves both the appeal of > OFBiz to (potential) adopters and their users, and to developers. > With a configurable Main page, developers have less screens to consider when > doing customisation, while at the same time trying to stay in sync with > changes from the project. -- This message was sent by Atlassian Jira (v8.20.10#820010)
[jira] [Commented] (OFBIZ-13049) Configurable Main page
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-13049?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel=17839289#comment-17839289 ] Pierre Smits commented on OFBIZ-13049: -- Hi [~danwatford], I have adjusted the title and the description of this ticket. I trust this will help understanding the motivation behind this parent ticket. The sub-tasks under this ticket indicate the applications/components that can be improved by the community in a SMART way. > Configurable Main page > -- > > Key: OFBIZ-13049 > URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-13049 > Project: OFBiz > Issue Type: Improvement > Components: ALL APPLICATIONS >Reporter: Pierre Smits >Priority: Major > > Currently the OFBiz product has configurable Main pages in applications > Accounting, Order, SFA, and plugin MyPortal. Unfortunately, none in the > community felt the urge to implement the concept further in other > applications. > Having a configurable Main page of an application improves both the appeal of > OFBiz to (potential) adopters and their users, and to developers. > With a configurable Main page, developers have less screens to consider when > doing customisation, while at the same time trying to stay in sync with > changes from the project. -- This message was sent by Atlassian Jira (v8.20.10#820010)
