[NSP] Re: (no subject)
For pity sake, would you let it go already?... Does anyone here actually knows Tickell personally and has her contact? I want to match her up with Gibbons, so they can have a pint together and sort out these issues. And for that matter, I would appreciate any help in also tracking down actress Scarlett Johansson personal contact...for a pint and a friendly chat. Of course I would have to avoid saying stupid things that would completely ruin the mood, like "...here's some funny stuff: I play the bagpipes!" and "How do you feel about Staccatto? I prefer legatto myself" or even worst: "Say, there's a friend of mine who plays Small pipes...wait, where are you going? Come back, please! I love you". Miguel-the-match-maker 2006/5/19, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > From her website: > =A9 2001 Kathryn Tickell > A _lazy grace_ (http://www.lazygrace.com/) production > My point exactly > John To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] (no subject)
>From her website: =A9 2001 Kathryn Tickell A _lazy grace_ (http://www.lazygrace.com/) production My point exactly John -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: penguin cafe etc
Tuesday, May 16, 2006 7:40 PM Steve wrote: Subject: *** SPAM *** [NSP] penguin cafe etc >...the current revival came from a continuous tradition but a relatively thin root in the late 60's/early 70's. According to tonight's edition of the BBC Newcastle's Look North, it is entirely credited to an 'officer and a piper' somewhere out near Scots Gap! Maureen To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Judging
Now, how can one enter a small-pipes competition if you dont know what the Judge is listening for? If one can play them any-old-how, then surely everyone will be as good as one another. So, a new set of rules should be adopted. 1. Drones have to beat with each other; just like the accordian. 2. The chanter should be out of tune with its self, so as to be in tune with every note being out of tune with the drones to the same length. 3a. You can use any bagpipe because the small-pipes are now played that way. 3b. All bagpipes are small-pipes unless they are large. 4. Any tune will do; traditional tunes are not necessarily correct just because they've been played for 200 years-it was just a whim at the time by a very few pipers. 5. A Judge is not needed, 'cause there's nowt to Judge. 6a. Anyone playing completly detached will be shot. 6b. Anyone playing completly legato will be shot 6c. Anyone playing the small-pipes will be shot twice. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: tutor
You're quick.. Yes, that was the tongue (non-vibrating and not a cane one) firmly in cheek implication. Unless, of course, we want a really healthy debate with all sorts of points of view showing just how much we care in our own ways about the pipes and their future. If nothing else, this discussion has shown the depth of feeling felt. I, for one, welcome the fact that we can do this. The various points of view have mostly been valid, entertaining and food for thought and it can only be good for piping in general. It's also a great way for those of us who are not in the NE to get to know how other people (especially the "real" pipers who have reached such a high standard) feel as we never (or rarely) have the chance to meet face to face (or chanter to chanter). There, that's enough grovelling for today lest they get even more big-headed (if that's possible). Colin Hill - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Colin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 9:19 PM Subject: Re: [NSP] Re: tutor > On 19 May 2006, Colin (Hill) wrote: > > > Four things never to get into a discussion on. > > > 3/ Bagpipes. > > Hang on! Isn't it a bagpipe discussion list? Should we all > unsubscribe now before we get shot??? > > > > Julia > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: penguin cafe etc
Sorry - this got stuck in my outbox and I'd not realized it hadn't been
sent:
-Original Message-
From: Chris Ormston [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 17 May 2006 20:04
To: 'nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu'
Subject: RE: [NSP] Re: penguin cafe etc
Erm, thanks again John!
You've reminded me of some advice I had from Tom Clough's son ("Young Tom"
in the book). When I played for him, one of his first comments was that I
was playing too detached!! He suggested, as you do, that the aim was to
maintain technique, rhythm and musicality by ensuring that the space between
each note was very definitely there, but almost imperceptible.
As I've followed this thread I've been reminded of the lowly status of
traditional music in the UK, and the lack of awareness, knowledge or
interest amongst the general public. I think of the late Gordon Duncan, one
of the greatest of his generation of GHB players, reduced to working as a
dustbinman. At times it seems that an effective publicity machine is more
important than honesty, integrity or ability (see the rather imaginative
biography on the website of one of our prominent pipers - economical with
the truth to say the least). I can understand the general public and novice
musicians being swept along by the hype, but I'm deeply saddened that some
who claim to have knowledge and interest in our instrument seem to feel that
standards don't matter. How can we expect the broader public to value our
art if we don't value it ourselves.
The tradition has evolved over a long period through the relationship
between music, instrument and performer. It didn't happen by accident, nor
did it suddenly appear one day! To suggest that our antecedents were wrong,
or ignorant about what they were doing is naïve to say the least.
Anyway, enough of this - I'm off for a quick rendition of Dargai - it must
be in the tradition if Billy played it!
Chris
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 16 May 2006 23:52
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [NSP] Re: penguin cafe etc
Steve,
Not a thin root, but the stem cetainly narrowed down rather drastically in
the 60's.
The remarkable thing is that the plant is now in a much healthier state
than
for many years,
(not just many more pipers, but more good ones than there have been at any
time since the war? Depends who you count!) and the link to the roots of the
tradition seems much more secure now since the Clough MSS, Bewick etc have
been
published.
I wholly agree that the difficulty (and the aim) in a wholly-closed style
is
maintaining the rhythmic flow, and letting the tunes sing. Tom Clough and
Chris Ormston have proved it can be done. For us mortals it is harder.
Perhaps
I should practise...
John
--
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: tutor
Maybe there should be a specific class in piping competitions then. Perhaps a closed fingering section together with a freestyle section? That way all styles could be accommodated and the judges would use that while marking. Sloppy playing would be penalised in both of course. That should satisfy both campsor would it? I still believe that "anything goes" when playing an instrument and the music will change to go with it (or else we would all be listening to pipe and tabor for dancing). I also wonder what the first to hear thought of a bellows blown pipe? I'll bet that came in for some stick as well (and when they first stopped the end up. I wonder if it was intentional or someone just got it blocked with the equivalent of a MacDonald's Cheeseburger and said "Ooh, that's handy, I can play staccato now"). I also feel that those of us that believe that the "traditional" way of playing is best (not "correct" you note) just continue to point that out whenever possible. I honestly do believe that the pipes will outlive any "fads" and good old Buttered Peas will still be doing the rounds long after the tune in question has been forgotten and the odd curiosity value players will be just that - a curiosity (if they go too far). That doesn't stop our enjoyment of experimental stuff either. Four things never to get into a discussion on. 1/ Politics. 2/ Religion. 3/ Bagpipes. 4/ Whether a Reliant Robin is a three-wheeled car or a covered motorbike (I drive a Robin and don't need any answers thank you). Colin Hill - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 3:12 PM Subject: *** SPAM *** [NSP] Re: tutor > > This means that there is a good case for insisting on strictly closed > fingering when playing strictly traditional music in a strictly traditional > context, doesn't it? The penguin cafe orchestra is not such a context and Ms > Tickell is demonstrating that the nsp, like all great instruments, need not > be restricted to only one style of music and its technique/style can be > adapted to suit others. In other words, she's extending the possibilities of > the instrument. More power to her elbow! And she can play the "proper" way > with the best of them when she feels like. > > In the baroque and classical periods, the default bow stroke for the violin > family was the non-legato. It was not however the only stroke used even > then. What happened in the romantic period? Same instrument, wider > repertoire. Did grappelly play "incorrectly". Do apocalyptica play their > cellos "incorrectly". If they do, it's because they choose to, being highly > conservatoire-trained and symphony-orchestra-experienced. Many people think > that "proper" violin playing involves permanent vibrato a la kreisler. > Mozart's dad was somewhat scathing about the permanent wobblers. Many people > also think that fiddling is just bad, incorrect violin playing. Or that rock > singers would sound like pavarotti if they could do it. Is there only one > way to sing? > > Imho, a good crisp martelé is the essential basis of all good (in the sense > of solid and reliable, not "proper" or "correct") bowing technique. Gets > boring if we use it all the time tho. Similarly, a good crisp staccato is > the essential basis of all good (in the sense of solid and reliable) > nspiping. But don't be afraid to get off the ladder when you've reached the > roof. > > Various schools of playing have grown up for all the major instruments. The > development of different schools of playing for nsp is evidence that it need > not be "merely" a "quaint little folk instrument". (we all know what the > general public thinks of bagpipes in general). > > Apparently Ian Anderson's flute technique is all wrong - he says so himself > at the Tull website. What a loss to the world if he had stopped playing and > recording for that reason! > > Don't get me wrong. I'm all for upholding the tradition! I just wish I could > do it better ;-( I'm all for building on it too. Thanks, KT! > > Chirs > > > -Original Message- > From: what.me [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 1:59 PM > To: nsp > Subject: [NSP] tutor > > > The tutor was by Fenwick, it weas revised by Cocks and Askew. It was > published for the NPS by the Northumberland Press. It would seem to me that > the system of 'detached' notes were/are the proper way of playing and had > full backing of the NPS. It was an NPS publication. Therefore there can be > no doubt as to the correct way of fingering the small-pipes, if you can do > it. Other instruments have tutor books and there is a correct of playing > those instruments. Is someone trying to tell me that there is no proper way > of playing the small-pipes? > Adrian > -- > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > >
[NSP] Re: Yes Adrian,
Adrian said, "It is a shame that the true way may be lost, due to the ignorance of others. " Keeping it religious, I see. But I agree - it annoys me when piper X's non-standard technique is used to justify piper Y's sloppiness. John -Original Message- From: what.me [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 19 May 2006 15:02 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: nsp Subject: [NSP] Re: Yes Adrian, - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "what.me" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 1:40 PM Subject: Yes Adrian, >I am. I have played the pipes since 1980 and have only been told by >Colin Ross and Kathryn Tickell whenever I strayed from the narrow path >to salvation. There is no proper way. Since we are all musicians, we >try to express ourselves through music. Do you really think there >should be rules to restrict our expressions? Are there rules for jazz, >classical music or any other art form? I'd rather break a few rules >than observe them. > > T.R.Andersen Dear T.R Anderson you are talking about styles of music, I and Mr Fenwick are talking about the method of fingering. We can all express ourselves by playing the small-pipes the correct way. It is a shame that the true way may be lost, due to the ignorance of others. Adrian To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: address book
Just when it was getting interesting again... ;-) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 4:15 PM To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] address book Dear Friends, our interests have changed. Please remove my name from the mailing list. Thanks and good luck. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] address book
Dear Friends, our interests have changed. Please remove my name from the mailing list. Thanks and good luck. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: tutor
This means that there is a good case for insisting on strictly closed fingering when playing strictly traditional music in a strictly traditional context, doesn't it? The penguin cafe orchestra is not such a context and Ms Tickell is demonstrating that the nsp, like all great instruments, need not be restricted to only one style of music and its technique/style can be adapted to suit others. In other words, she's extending the possibilities of the instrument. More power to her elbow! And she can play the "proper" way with the best of them when she feels like. In the baroque and classical periods, the default bow stroke for the violin family was the non-legato. It was not however the only stroke used even then. What happened in the romantic period? Same instrument, wider repertoire. Did grappelly play "incorrectly". Do apocalyptica play their cellos "incorrectly". If they do, it's because they choose to, being highly conservatoire-trained and symphony-orchestra-experienced. Many people think that "proper" violin playing involves permanent vibrato a la kreisler. Mozart's dad was somewhat scathing about the permanent wobblers. Many people also think that fiddling is just bad, incorrect violin playing. Or that rock singers would sound like pavarotti if they could do it. Is there only one way to sing? Imho, a good crisp martelé is the essential basis of all good (in the sense of solid and reliable, not "proper" or "correct") bowing technique. Gets boring if we use it all the time tho. Similarly, a good crisp staccato is the essential basis of all good (in the sense of solid and reliable) nspiping. But don't be afraid to get off the ladder when you've reached the roof. Various schools of playing have grown up for all the major instruments. The development of different schools of playing for nsp is evidence that it need not be "merely" a "quaint little folk instrument". (we all know what the general public thinks of bagpipes in general). Apparently Ian Anderson's flute technique is all wrong - he says so himself at the Tull website. What a loss to the world if he had stopped playing and recording for that reason! Don't get me wrong. I'm all for upholding the tradition! I just wish I could do it better ;-( I'm all for building on it too. Thanks, KT! Chirs -Original Message- From: what.me [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 1:59 PM To: nsp Subject: [NSP] tutor The tutor was by Fenwick, it weas revised by Cocks and Askew. It was published for the NPS by the Northumberland Press. It would seem to me that the system of 'detached' notes were/are the proper way of playing and had full backing of the NPS. It was an NPS publication. Therefore there can be no doubt as to the correct way of fingering the small-pipes, if you can do it. Other instruments have tutor books and there is a correct of playing those instruments. Is someone trying to tell me that there is no proper way of playing the small-pipes? Adrian -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Yes Adrian,
- Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "what.me" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 1:40 PM Subject: Yes Adrian, >I am. I have played the pipes since 1980 and have only been told by Colin > Ross and Kathryn Tickell whenever I strayed from the narrow path to > salvation. There is no proper way. > Since we are all musicians, we try to express ourselves through music. Do > you really think there should be rules to restrict our expressions? Are > there rules for jazz, classical music or any other art form? I'd rather > break a few rules than observe them. > > T.R.Andersen Dear T.R Anderson you are talking about styles of music, I and Mr Fenwick are talking about the method of fingering. We can all express ourselves by playing the small-pipes the correct way. It is a shame that the true way may be lost, due to the ignorance of others. Adrian To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] tutor
The tutor was by Fenwick, it weas revised by Cocks and Askew. It was published for the NPS by the Northumberland Press. It would seem to me that the system of 'detached' notes were/are the proper way of playing and had full backing of the NPS. It was an NPS publication. Therefore there can be no doubt as to the correct way of fingering the small-pipes, if you can do it. Other instruments have tutor books and there is a correct of playing those instruments. Is someone trying to tell me that there is no proper way of playing the small-pipes? Adrian -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
