[NSP] Re: Doubleday et al
(I've missed a day on this, while I was daft enough to honour a gig in Hampstead: 1 hr 40 there, 7 hours 20 back. The joys of the soft south!) You're absolutely right, John. It is, to adapt an earlier comment, pointless comparing apples and potatoes. But since we've mentioned it I was going to write and comment that it's all down to so many elements of time, place, mood, etc. And before seeing yours below, was going to say that for me hearing Billy Pigg (interesting how often his name crops up in this) playing the Wild Hills of Wannie just Did It when I when I was about 18, had never even heard of Northumbrian smallpipes or any pipes other than GHB's, (as played by buskers when crossing the border on Scottish holidays) ... a seed was set, and ever since then I wanted to play these things. (Pity it took until I was in my mid 50's before actually pursuing them!) And it is enormously subjective. It's like foods, tastes vary so widely. I'm not surprised that Paddy Keenan's Blackbird is John Gibbons' defining one (quite agree!) Irish pipes, Irish tune (yes I know they're an English invention). We could go off topic and discuss which instruments do different jobs for different people - for me a one row melodeon does a fantastic job with some dance tunes, but is 'orrible even when played by a great Irish master for a slow air. But that's another big discussion, and I've take us off topic too often recently, so I won't suggest it :) It would be interesting to know how many people, either within the North Eastern fold or out of it, were first inspired by hearing Mr Pigg's playing, though. Best wishes, Richard. On 18/12/2010 17:51, John Dally wrote: Thanks to everyone for the edifying discussion. To me Doubleday seems to be saying, the NSP are a rude, wee thing with enough charm to make them worth preserving, and within its narrowest scope in its own way it's quite nice, really. Another way of looking at it is that he's saying fa\g a phiob bhochd, leave the poor pipes alone, which makes good sense to me too. All that is fair enough. Contrast that with George Sand's novel, The Bagpipers, which is truly inspired by the rude sounds of peasant instruments. I think she wrote about the same time as Doubleday. The discussion lost me when it took on the topic of most expressive instrument. Whatever gets you through the night, as the late, great Liverpudlian once sang. All music is nostalgic and so much depends on your frame of reference. When I first heard the NSP when I was about fifteen I was drinking tea in a close corner by a wood stove after a cold, wet day of scavaging fire wood from a logged off patch where alder and madrona were left to rot. My friend, Sandy Ross (somehow related to Colin), put a recording of Billy Pigg on the record player and I was hooked. If he had put a recording of the best violinist in the world I would have hurried out the door without finishing my tea. There is much more to the context of that moment, social and personal, that made it so important to me. But suffice it to say that for all it's many flaws and short comings the NSP are the only thing that works to express some things for me, and every time I hear and play them that moment of contentment and happiness shines through. Of course, I have many flaws and shortcomings, which explains a lot! To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Doubleday et al
On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 12:55 PM, Richard York [1]rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk wrote: for me hearing Billy Pigg (interesting how often his name crops up in this) playing the Wild Hills of Wannie just Did It ... a seed was set Yes -- References 1. mailto:rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] WHW
That recording of Billy's 'did it' for many of us, I'm sure. Quite far from the idealised view of the Northumbrian Tradition in Doubleday, or the actual tradition he learned from Tom Clough, but wonderful music for all that. Listening to RTE, and artists like Leo Rowsome, must have been a massive influence for him, on this in particular. But the fast passages are a brilliant innovation and entirely his own, so far as I know. And the way they suddenly slow back down at the halfway point is inspired! John To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Doubleday et al
On 19 Dec 2010, at 12:55, Richard York wrote: It would be interesting to know how many people, either within the North Eastern fold or out of it, were first inspired by hearing Mr Pigg's playing, though. Well, me for a start. Knowing almost nothing about traditional music, and never having heard of Northumbrian pipes, I came across the Billy Pigg LP on Leader Records in a record shop in Colchester. I liked the scholarly presentation with excellent illustrations and notes by Colin Ross and bought it immediately, thinking I'd got something fascinating and totally obscure. On the way home, I met the vicar's wife who said Oh, I see you've got the Billy Pigg LP! I immediately played it to my flat-mate who after a couple of minutes, said Do we have to have this on? But by then, I was hooked. Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: WHW
I'd heard NSP before - including Billy's TV appearance. But that record was what really got the fire burning - Jack Armstrong's LP didn't quite do it for me. Also, as you say, the notes - almost a book - were excellent. Colin's transcription of The Wild Hills of Wannie really helped me to understand what was going on. My only regret now is not getting a set sooner. Good luck to any intrepid souls attempting the yomp on Boxing Day! It might be a chilly one! John From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Francis Wood [oatenp...@googlemail.com] Sent: 19 December 2010 14:55 To: Richard York Cc: NSP group Subject: [NSP] Re: Doubleday et al On 19 Dec 2010, at 12:55, Richard York wrote: It would be interesting to know how many people, either within the North Eastern fold or out of it, were first inspired by hearing Mr Pigg's playing, though. Well, me for a start. Knowing almost nothing about traditional music, and never having heard of Northumbrian pipes, I came across the Billy Pigg LP on Leader Records in a record shop in Colchester. I liked the scholarly presentation with excellent illustrations and notes by Colin Ross and bought it immediately, thinking I'd got something fascinating and totally obscure. On the way home, I met the vicar's wife who said Oh, I see you've got the Billy Pigg LP! I immediately played it to my flat-mate who after a couple of minutes, said Do we have to have this on? But by then, I was hooked. Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Doubleday et al
I did mention earlier that Billy Pigg was my first introduction to the pipes (although I was familiar with the Irish pipes but not through playing). 1968, Corries TV program and a very unassuming gentleman was being asked by them regarding the pipes and giving answers like yes and no. He played Bill Charlton's Fancy and, from that moment, I wanted to play. (Still have the audio of that ob reel-to-reel somewhere). Took until C1973 when the LP Wild Hills etc came out (or until I found it in the record shop) and it had the NPS details on it to actually go about getting a set. Phoning Ray (Fisher) Ross put me in touch will Bill Hedworth who had just completed a simple set which he could send me in a matter of weeks. If I remember, it cost around £30 and he provided me (on loan - I did send it back after copying it longhand - no scanners then) a booklet on how to play, a set of reeds at various stages of completion and a sketch on how to adjust the bridle. A lifetime membership to the NPS followed (that was nearly a whole month's salary) and, about a year later, a conversion to a 7 key set which I still play. Conversion (new 7 key chanter, new drone stock with extra hole and low D drone) cost £36. I did have to drill a hole in the G drone to use the A as the cover was there but Bill hadn't drilled the actual hole under it). I then made my first (and last) visit to the AGM (by rail) and gawped at the likes of Colin Ross and Forster Charlton being there (and suddenly realised who Ray Ross was). Also heard Colin playing border pipes but couldn't persuade my wife to let me have a set of them as well! Happy memories. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Francis Wood oatenp...@googlemail.com To: Richard York rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk Cc: NSP group nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 2:55 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: Doubleday et al On 19 Dec 2010, at 12:55, Richard York wrote: It would be interesting to know how many people, either within the North Eastern fold or out of it, were first inspired by hearing Mr Pigg's playing, though. Well, me for a start. Knowing almost nothing about traditional music, and never having heard of Northumbrian pipes, I came across the Billy Pigg LP on Leader Records in a record shop in Colchester. I liked the scholarly presentation with excellent illustrations and notes by Colin Ross and bought it immediately, thinking I'd got something fascinating and totally obscure. On the way home, I met the vicar's wife who said Oh, I see you've got the Billy Pigg LP! I immediately played it to my flat-mate who after a couple of minutes, said Do we have to have this on? But by then, I was hooked. Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: WHW
On 19 Dec 2010, at 15:47, Gibbons, John wrote: Good luck to any intrepid souls attempting the yomp on Boxing Day! It might be a chilly one! Yes, it will depend on the conditions. Title for a new march there . . . 'Yomp and Circumstance March' perhaps? Francis with apologies To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Doubleday et al
What really got me interested was the gift of Kathryn's first cassette, On Kielder Side. Wonderful music! It was given to me by friends who live on Orkney and heard her at the Orkney festival. At that point I was trying to learn to play the Highland chanter. The teacher had just received a notice from Alan Jones about the North Hero weekend (the 2nd, I think). I phoned Alan forthwith to enquire whether I would be able to borrow and try the NSP if I went. He assured me that I would - but in actual fact that did not happen! However I was so impressed by Richard Butler's playing and teaching that I ordered a set right away. Sheila -Original Message- From: Richard York rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk To: John Dally dir...@gmail.com; NSP group nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sun, Dec 19, 2010 7:55 am Subject: [NSP] Re: Doubleday et al (I've missed a day on this, while I was daft enough to honour a gig in Hampstead: 1 hr 40 there, 7 hours 20 back. The joys of the soft south!) You're absolutely right, John. It is, to adapt an earlier comment, pointless comparing apples and potatoes. But since we've mentioned it I was going to write and comment that it's all down to so many elements of time, place, mood, etc. And before seeing yours below, was going to say that for me hearing Billy Pigg (interesting how often his name crops up in this) playing the Wild Hills of Wannie just Did It when I when I was about 18, had never even heard of Northumbrian smallpipes or any pipes other than GHB's, (as played by buskers when crossing the border on Scottish holidays) ... a seed was set, and ever since then I wanted to play these things. (Pity it took until I was in my mid 50's before actually pursuing them!) And it is enormously subjective. It's like foods, tastes vary so widely. I'm not surprised that Paddy Keenan's Blackbird is John Gibbons' defining one (quite agree!) Irish pipes, Irish tune (yes I know they're an English invention). We could go off topic and discuss which instruments do different jobs for different people - for me a one row melodeon does a fantastic job with some dance tunes, but is 'orrible even when played by a great Irish master for a slow air. But that's another big discussion, and I've take us off topic too often recently, so I won't suggest it :) It would be interesting to know how many people, either within the North Eastern fold or out of it, were first inspired by hearing Mr Pigg's playing, though. Best wishes, Richard. On 18/12/2010 17:51, John Dally wrote: Thanks to everyone for the edifying discussion. To me Doubleday seems to be saying, the NSP are a rude, wee thing with enough charm to make them worth preserving, and within its narrowest scope in its own way it's quite nice, really. Another way of looking at it is that he's saying fa\g a phiob bhochd, leave the poor pipes alone, which makes good sense to me too. All that is fair enough. Contrast that with George Sand's novel, The Bagpipers, which is truly inspired by the rude sounds of peasant instruments. I think she wrote about the same time as Doubleday. The discussion lost me when it took on the topic of most expressive instrument. Whatever gets you through the night, as the late, great Liverpudlian once sang. All music is nostalgic and so much depends on your frame of reference. When I first heard the NSP when I was about fifteen I was drinking tea in a close corner by a wood stove after a cold, wet day of scavaging fire wood from a logged off patch where alder and madrona were left to rot. My friend, Sandy Ross (somehow related to Colin), put a recording of Billy Pigg on the record player and I was hooked. If he had put a recording of the best violinist in the world I would have hurried out the door without finishing my tea. There is much more to the context of that moment, social and personal, that made it so important to me. But suffice it to say that for all it's many flaws and short comings the NSP are the only thing that works to express some things for me, and every time I hear and play them that moment of contentment and happiness shines through. Of course, I have many flaws and shortcomings, which explains a lot! To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[NSP] Re: WHW
Hello John It had exactly the same effect on me despite being besotted by the original Tom Clough 78 (which Ron Elliott bought by chance in Harrogate market in the late 60s). The postman delivered Billy's album as I was leaving for the lab at Aston. I put it on the record player and tears were forming by the end of track 2 (A side - The Lark in the Clear Air was the culprit). By the time B side track 3 (WHW) came on the tears were falling on the floor. I played the whole LP 3 times through back to back and went in to the lab in the afternoon. Re WHW, I listened to it again tonight with Colin's notes in front of me. Granted that my album has been played almost to death so I could be totally wrong here but the 5 note run (B C C# D D#) between the high G and the long E only seems to happen first time round. Unless my ears deceive me the equivalent runs as the tune progresses miss out the D#. Furthermore, the D# in the original run seems to me to be quite flat. Could it be that first time around he squeezes the D up a tad to get a D# effect? There is certainly enough gap after it where he could bring the pressure back down to get the E in tune. This would be in keeping with what Dick Hill (Billy's last formal pupil and player of the stunning Jack Armstrong 7 key chanter) told me. That Billy in fact played a 6 key chanter as the D# block had broken off. If indeed this is the case we can only further marvel at Billy's genius! Cheers Anthony --- On Sun, 19/12/10, Gibbons, John j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk wrote: From: Gibbons, John j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk Subject: [NSP] Re: WHW To: NSP group nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Sunday, 19 December, 2010, 15:47 I'd heard NSP before - including Billy's TV appearance. But that record was what really got the fire burning - Jack Armstrong's LP didn't quite do it for me. Also, as you say, the notes - almost a book - were excellent. Colin's transcription of The Wild Hills of Wannie really helped me to understand what was going on. My only regret now is not getting a set sooner. Good luck to any intrepid souls attempting the yomp on Boxing Day! It might be a chilly one! John To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Doubleday
The pipes are a brilliant but not capable of the highest level of expressiveness. Anthony, go wash your mouth out with soap!! Helen To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Doubleday
Hello all this instrument does not lack ability, it lacks players who can't play in the correct method; not many can do that. Expression is emphasised in precision. I'm not here to delineate. There is no more expression in those who can play the detached method with feeling. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
