[NSP] Re: Like never before
On 7 Jan 2011, at 23:56, Gibbons, John wrote: I will be going back to the site for a 2nd helping once the headache's gone away. This is what happens. After the initial shock you go back. In my case, quite a lot. It's best heard on Spotify, though all the tracks can be downloaded here: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/tracy.firby/WyrDGeneS/WyrdgenesDownloads.html I still like it! Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Like never before
On 8 Jan 2011, Francis Wood wrote: After the initial shock you go back. In my case, quite a lot. N'brian music with pizzazz. Or as it is known in my immediate circle, with b*ks. Music with Rocks in... (Pratchett!) And passion. So sadly lacking in some places I can far too easily think of. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/tracy.firby/WyrDGeneS/WyrdgenesDownloads.html It's someone called George.I know who I suspect, 'cos whoever it is has a really good grasp of the idiom. Weird Genes - WG - alias GW, I think. Anyone know? Julia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Doublin' (Keenan Glackin)
Hello Matt I feel my comments need clarification, For the record, in general I think drones are fantastic, and used all 4 together: GDdg on the Whittingham/Glen Aln/Lads of Alnwick track on the WG album. I realize this is anachronistic for Lads aEUR| (also fairly tiring) but I think it works. Where drones can be destructive is when there is up to 70 cents difference between one player and the next and each tunes their own drones to their own chanter. The move away from the Reid dimensions by those makers aiming for concert pitched sets in F and the retention of that pattern by David Burleigh who has now provided 3000+ sets to the piping community means that this is often the case. If I have any control over the proceedings I tune one drone on each set of pipes to the mean (usually around F + 30) and then get each player to see if they can play acceptably against that drone if the answer is yes, I invite them to add a second drone if the answer is no, I ask them to switch the drone off. This means that in a gathering of pipers with a spread of pitch we usually get something pleasing to the ears. I would not dream of having a group of pipers playing/performing pipe tunes without drones but I would limit drone use in the interests of a pleasing drone hum (bees rather than angry wasps). And yes, this generally pleases others in the room too. (Thanks JG for making that point) Cheers Anthony --- On Fri, 7/1/11, Matt Seattle theborderpi...@googlemail.com wrote: From: Matt Seattle theborderpi...@googlemail.com Subject: [NSP] Re: Doublin' (Keenan Glackin) To: Gibbons, John j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Friday, 7 January, 2011, 18:23 On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 3:55 PM, Gibbons, John [1][1]j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk wrote: I'd agree completely about this record. Lovely! I must dig it out again. The precision is what marks it out from a lot of lesser performances, Irish or from wherever. I am so relieved that peace has broken out. I was especially worried after Anthony's Yes drones are wonderful and powerful but this power can also be, and all too often is, destructive. which reminded me that drones, like the nuclear force which binds everything together, might, if mishandled, lead to some Chernobyl-type musical meltdown scenario. And I love the Glackin Keenan record too, I haven't heard it for ages but it used to really fire me up, it has The Juice. A Guid New Year to all from fair Teviotdale -- References 1. mailto:[2]j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://uk.mc5.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk 2. http://uk.mc5.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Halsway Pipers w.e March 2011
Calling all pipers ...and particularly regular attenders of this annual weekend event. There has been a late flurry of bookings for the Halsway Pipers w/e 4-7 March 2011. Christine and I shall be ready and waiting to welcome you to this event, but only if you have managed to book in advance! Many regulars seem to leave it to the last possible moment to book and then may be disappointed that their usual room has been allocated to someone else. NB only about half the accommodation is en-suite. We have the same team of Northumbrian piping tutors as last year, namely; Chris Ormston, Andy May, Chris Evans and Francis Wood. There are playarounds on Friday and Sunday evenings (Sunday is a joint evening shared with local musicians who come to the monthly Sunday Club - last year this was the best attendance ever on a Sunday night!), workshops on Saturday and Sunday, with a public concert on Saturday evening. Saturday afternoon is free or there may be optional extra sessions if needed. Guests are welcome to stay over till Monday morning and drive home in the daylight, if possible. For those arriving by public transport, i.e. train to Taunton, don't forget there is a No 28 bus the serves the manor . You need to ask for the Halsway turning, as it is a request stop. Half hourly service from Taunton Railway station at 05 and 35 minutes past each hour. Contact details for Halsway Manor the National Residential centre for Traditional Music, Dance and Song: for bookings ring Viv 01984 618274 - you can pay by credit card. postal address for cheques to - Halsway Manor, Crowcombe, Somerset TA4 4BD. web address - [1]www.halswaymanor.org.uk email - [2]off...@halswaymanor.org.uk See you all soon! Best wishes Alan Corkett PS. My phone number if you need help is 01278 732202. -- References 1. http://www.halswaymanor.org.uk/ 2. mailto:off...@halswaymanor.org.uk To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Doublin' (Keenan Glackin)
On Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 10:51 AM, Anthony Robb [1]anth...@robbpipes.com wrote: I feel my comments need clarification, Where drones can be destructive is when there is up to 70 cents difference between one player and the next and each tunes their own drones to their own chanter. which sounds like my remark drones, like the nuclear force which binds everything together, might, if mishandled, lead to some Chernobyl-type musical meltdown scenario. We do not disagree. I suspect from other of your postings that we also converge on the dilemma that, as fiddlers, we know, on a near instinctive level, how to use our bow arm to play with whatever degree of lilt we wish, but as drone addicts, we experience the difficulty of transferring this to the pipes. Cheers Matt -- References 1. mailto:anth...@robbpipes.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Like never before
On 8 Jan 2011, at 10:11, Julia Say wrote: N'brian music with pizzazz. Or as it is known in my immediate circle, with b*ks. Music with Rocks in... (Pratchett!) Well said! And passion. So sadly lacking in some places I can far too easily think of. Whoever it is has a huge enthusiasm for this repertoire and plenty of musicality, presenting it successfully in an unfamiliar way. Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Doublin' (Keenan Glackin)
Matt Absolutely! Anthony --- On Sat, 8/1/11, Matt Seattle theborderpi...@googlemail.com wrote: From: Matt Seattle theborderpi...@googlemail.com Subject: [NSP] Re: Doublin' (Keenan Glackin) To: Anthony Robb anth...@robbpipes.com Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Saturday, 8 January, 2011, 11:10 On Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 10:51 AM, Anthony Robb [1][1]anth...@robbpipes.com wrote: I feel my comments need clarification, Where drones can be destructive is when there is up to 70 cents difference between one player and the next and each tunes their own drones to their own chanter. which sounds like my remark drones, like the nuclear force which binds everything together, might, if mishandled, lead to some Chernobyl-type musical meltdown scenario. We do not disagree. I suspect from other of your postings that we also converge on the dilemma that, as fiddlers, we know, on a near instinctive level, how to use our bow arm to play with whatever degree of lilt we wish, but as drone addicts, we experience the difficulty of transferring this to the pipes. Cheers Matt -- References 1. mailto:[2]anth...@robbpipes.com To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://uk.mc5.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=anth...@robbpipes.com 2. http://uk.mc5.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=anth...@robbpipes.com 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Doublin' (Keenan Glackin)
A 70 cent divergence between one set of pipes and another is alarming! More than a third of a tone in old money. We are approaching the territory of that Irish flute player I mentioned. A tactful cull of the outliers might be a good idea - 'Your pipes are more suitable for solo playing' perhaps? -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Doublin' (Keenan Glackin)
Hello John That is the extreme but it happens fairly regularly and if people have signed up for a day's workshop (or longer) and have travelled some distance that's the way I deal with it. It has to be said that I do prefer the higher pitch sound personally and so have 3 F chanters myself to cater for various circumstances. This is not an option for many punters, hence my pragmatic (some would say draconian) approach. Cheers Anthony --- On Sat, 8/1/11, gibbonssoi...@aol.com gibbonssoi...@aol.com wrote: From: gibbonssoi...@aol.com gibbonssoi...@aol.com Subject: [NSP] Re: Doublin' (Keenan Glackin) To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Saturday, 8 January, 2011, 14:03 A 70 cent divergence between one set of pipes and another is alarming! More than a third of a tone in old money. We are approaching the territory of that Irish flute player I mentioned. A tactful cull of the outliers might be a good idea - 'Your pipes are more suitable for solo playing' perhaps? -- To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: A 70 cent divergence
Having looked up what a cent was on wikipeadia, here is what it said about Human perception. HUMAN PERCEPTION It is difficult to establish how many cents are perceptible to humans; this accuracy varies greatly from person to person. One author stated that humans can distinguish a difference in pitch of about 5-6 cents.[2] The threshold of what is perceptible, technically known as the just noticeable difference, also varies as a function of the timbre of the pitch: in one study, changes in tone quality reduced student musicians' ability to recognize as out-of-tune pitches that deviated from their appropriate values by ±12 cents.[3] It has also been established that increased tonal context enables listeners to judge pitch more accurately.[4] When listening to pitches with vibrato, there is evidence that humans perceive the mean frequency as the center of the pitch.[5] One study of vibrato in western vocal music found a variation in cents of vibrato typically ranged between ±34 cents and ±123 cents, with a mean variation of ±71 cents; the variation was much higher on Verdi opera arias.[6] Normal adults are able to recognize pitch differences of as small as 25 cents very reliably. Adults with amusia, however, have trouble recognizing differences of less than 100 cents and sometimes have trouble with these or larger intervals.[7] I thought this to be quite revealing! Alan Corkett -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu]on Behalf Of gibbonssoi...@aol.com Sent: 08 January 2011 14:04 To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: Doublin' (Keenan Glackin) A 70 cent divergence between one set of pipes and another is alarming! More than a third of a tone in old money. We are approaching the territory of that Irish flute player I mentioned. A tactful cull of the outliers might be a good idea - 'Your pipes are more suitable for solo playing' perhaps? -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: A 70 cent divergence
On 8 Jan 2011, at 14:37, Alan Corkett wrote: Adults with amusia Now then. Does this describe an absence of any sense of humour? 'The Ill -Tempered Piper' perhaps? As for drones, can't someone develop the Hard Anger pipes. Same as NSP's mostly. Except that the drones are in tune Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: NSP concertina
Hello - thank you John - very kind. I must of course point out that it's half NSP and half concertina - I don't actually have any tracks with both! If you're on this side of the pond, it's available from the record company (Veteran: www.veteran.co.uk), the Chantry have a stock and it's also available from numerous online retailers (specialist and mainstream). cheers Rob On 08/01/2011 07:09, John Dally wrote: As for NSP concertina, if you haven't yet listened to Rob Say's CD O'er Lang at the Fair Veteran (VT157CD) do yourself a favor and get a copy. I bought mine from www.bagpipediscs.com. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: A 70 cent divergence
Hi Alan, In connection with the question of intonation and the perception of in-tune-ness, your quotation is very interesting. Violinists have the problem of having to decide whether to tune their A to whatever has been decided as the pitch for the ensemble with which they are playing 440, 442 or whatever the fixed instruments (piano, NSP, accordion, etc.) may determine, and then either tuning their other strings to perfect fifths - which keeps string players happiest, or tuning to an electric tuner, which uses an equal temperament scale. Last night I was listening to a recording of the Kings Singers which a friend had forwarded me via e-mail (see http://www.classicalty.com/v945/the-kings-singers-from-byrd-to-beatles ) This is a perfect example of something which is absolutely in tune and so beautifully not only harmonious, but also peaceful. It makes one realize how rarely one hears something where everyone is using just tuning, and really listening to the rest of the gang while performing.(You may not like madrigals, but you can always fast-forward to Spirituals or the Beatles.) I agree completely that vibrato can enrich music, and certainly has its place. Likewise that with pieces which include frequent modulations to different keys, especially where/when large groups of instruments are involved, the equal temperament scale is probably the best solution but, since our pipes are (supposedly . . . we hope . . .!) perfectly tuned when playing in G, and almost so in the other 3 most frequently used keys (D, Ami, Emi), a sensitive string/wind player will probably find themselves adjusting their playing to just intonation. I.e. when they are playing B when the melody/NSP is suggesting a Gmajor chord, the note will be fractionally different from when the melody/NSP requires it as the 5th for an E minor chord. That's my pennyworth. cheers, Sheila -Original Message- From: Alan Corkett a...@bcorkett.freeserve.co.uk To: gibbonssoi...@aol.com Cc: NSP LIST nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sat, Jan 8, 2011 9:37 am Subject: [NSP] Re: A 70 cent divergence Having looked up what a cent was on wikipeadia, here is what it said about uman perception. HUMAN PERCEPTION t is difficult to establish how many cents are perceptible to humans; this ccuracy varies greatly from person to person. One author stated that humans an distinguish a difference in pitch of about 5-6 cents.[2] The threshold f what is perceptible, technically known as the just noticeable difference, lso varies as a function of the timbre of the pitch: in one study, changes n tone quality reduced student musicians' ability to recognize as ut-of-tune pitches that deviated from their appropriate values by ±12 ents.[3] It has also been established that increased tonal context enables isteners to judge pitch more accurately.[4] When listening to pitches with vibrato, there is evidence that humans erceive the mean frequency as the center of the pitch.[5] One study of ibrato in western vocal music found a variation in cents of vibrato ypically ranged between ±34 cents and ±123 cents, with a mean variation of 71 cents; the variation was much higher on Verdi opera arias.[6] Normal adults are able to recognize pitch differences of as small as 25 ents very reliably. Adults with amusia, however, have trouble recognizing ifferences of less than 100 cents and sometimes have trouble with these or arger intervals.[7] I thought this to be quite revealing! lan Corkett -Original Message- rom: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu]on ehalf Of gibbonssoi...@aol.com ent: 08 January 2011 14:04 o: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu ubject: [NSP] Re: Doublin' (Keenan Glackin) A 70 cent divergence between one set of pipes and another is alarming! More than a third of a tone in old money. We are approaching the territory of that Irish flute player I mentioned. A tactful cull of the outliers might be a good idea - 'Your pipes are more suitable for solo playing' perhaps? -- o get on or off this list see list information at ttp://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re:
It might be worth analysing recordings of a good piper or two playing in E minor and in G, to see if they squeeze the B that little bit harder in the minor tunes, to bring it more in tune with the E/B drones. They may not do it consciously, but the B that's a true third above G is a bit below the one a true fifth above E; at least if the fifths from G to D, D to A, and A to E are tuned (almost) justly, which you need for playing in G D and A minor. Squeezing a little harder could easily compensate this. John -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Intonation
As many notes on an NSP chanter can be bent about a quarter tone without putting the drones far out - at least on a good reed day - I guess one difference between a good piper and a fairly good one is the former will squeeze notes into tune unconsciously and accurately, the latter consciously and only fairly accurately. I often think of singing the note, so I have an idea of the pitch in my head, to aim for. Listening to the chord with the drones - if these are in tune - also helps with some notes. It is the notes that harmonise with the drones which are most exposed if out of tune, so recognising a just 3rd or whatever tells you you've got there. The singing trick doesn't work so well if you are still thinking equal-tempered, mind. So chords are better. Long notes are good practice for this - I wonder if this is one reason Tom Clough liked playing hymn tunes? 'Oh God our Help in Ages Past' (aka St Anne, or 'The Goldfish') is a good one for this, dead slow. I sometimes use this to see if the drones are 'really' in tune. When I started playing NSP after playing the flute for years, my embouchure would bend to try to bring notes in - ineffective of itself, but I found I was doing something useful as well, as the notes came more into tune (I pinched a non-existent thumbhole to get the top octave on the whistle, as well). That first set I had needed a bit of variable squeezing to bring some notes close to where they should be. Intonation is a mystery on most instruments, and the hardest part to get right. A related issue is tone colour - finger vibrato alters the harmonics of a note substantially, changing the colour a lot; pressure vibrato much less so. Taking a lower finger off the chanter may vary the pitch up or down, so you can use finger vibrato to improve the intonation as well as the colour. Or worsen the intonation, if you use the wrong finger. Knowing which lower finger moves which notes in which direction is something one ought to learn. I tend to use the same finger whatever, if it works. John -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] [nsp] re-conditioning ...
I'm ashamed to say ... but it has to be. my pipes have sat for too long. just took them out again. (yes, shame on me ... ) 2 areas are in need of help. 1 - the weather here is very damp. turns out the joints are stuck. any suggestions on how to unstick them - without waiting for the right few days in the middle of summer - would be helpful 2 - any suggestions on cleaning the green off the brass? thanx! i promise to be a better steward in the future... victor To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
