[NSP] Re: Cocks Bryan Book for sale
On 18 May 2011, at 09:05, Julia Say wrote: There was also a lively discussion with another person at the time as to whether it was adequate. I can imagine that it was lively! But as to whether or not any pipe-making book can be adequate, that depends entirely on what one expects. A good book will have enough information to make a decent set of pipes. Making them work is another matter and requires personal explanation and demonstration. What Cox Bryan provides is a good representation of parts of historical sets by the Reids and Dunn in their 'as found' state after fettling. In fact there isn't a complete Reid set illustrated; the drones and chanter are from different sets. However, there's plenty of good information there to make a very authentic Reid style set, or one resembling Dunn's work representing an earlier stage of NSPS C B was very much a product of its time being written in a period when technical education was far more widespread. Many boys (not girls, unfortunately) would have had some experience of lathe and metal-work at school. This is no longer the case, and a suitably equipped school workshop would be hard to find, these days. The present consequence of that is that a pipe-making course would now be a difficult thing to establish. Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Cocks Bryan Book for sale
Quoting Anthony Robb anth...@robbpipes.com: Hello Vernon If we stick with Barry's fruit analogy idea, Richard Suttleworth was comparing apples past their sell-by datenbsp;with fresh ones. Pardon. Where does tradition come into this. Are Reid pipes past their sell-by dates. I do not think I said anything which should discourage potential makers from paying close attention to Mike Nelson's website but I did make it clear that I felt that what Mike brought to the pipemaking discussion was a clarity of view based on engineering design. On the other other hand, I went through my pipemaking apprenticeship at the Killingworth classes with Colin Ross as tutor. Colin and Mike have exchanged views in the past to mutual benefit. Colin has freely admitted that the way his key-stems attached to the pads on double keys came from a suggestion from Mike Nelson. I heard him say as much in a workshop at the Rothbury Festival. Regarding hole positions, I work from the scale I learned at the Killingworth class which is to all intents and purposes the same that Mike produced in his book of the 1980s and Mike has, as I remember, acknowledged Colin's influence on his hole spacing. In the time I studied and worked with Colin, I gained the impression that he felt that Mikes design was driven by technology, whereas Colin felt there should be a more artistic, sculptural influence in the outer form of the pipes. The technical inner workings are another area altogether. Anyone who sets out to make a set of pipes, or become a pipemaker must form their own opinion on this matter. It is possible that an individual will at some times favour the artistic approach, while at other times the engineering attitude will come to the fore. Such is life! Barry To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Cocks Bryan Book for sale
Personally, I think that any attempt to compare Mike Nelson's Book and website with the Cocks and Bryan Pipemaking book is a bit like comparing apples and pears. Jim Bryan's book was an honest attempt at getting at getting information about pipemaking as it was understood within NPS circles into the public domain and he received some criticism for 'revealing secrets'. The main value of the book lies in the drawings as far as I am concerned. They have there inaccuracies and in some cases errors but nevertheless they contain much valuable information about classic pipe design. Many pipemakers (including Mike Nelson) have started their 'careers' by making the a set of pipes using the drawings of a simple set made by Dunn for Peacock. Mike Nelson brought his skills in engineering design to pipemaking and made a small number of sets (which are highly valued by their owners) and made his knowledge available to the piping community, initially through his book (published by Richard Butler) and more recently via his website. I have certainly encountered many parts of pipes which obviously came from Mike's drawings and I am aware that his book was widely photocopied. Barry Quoting Richard Shuttleworth rshuttlewo...@sympatico.ca: Mine is a hardback edition in pristine condition. Never used - I prefer the information on Mike Nelson's web site. Richard - Original Message - From: Philip Gruar phi...@gruar.clara.net To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 5:41 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: Cocks Bryan Book for sale I've got one with probably even more oil stains than the one for sale. Perhaps I could get more than $100 for mine. Philip To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Cocks Bryan Book for sale
It's interesting reading about the view that the Cocks and Bryan book was criticised for revealing 'secrets'. Pipe making wasn't the only 'secret' treasured by by those in the know' from the North East of England. Leek growing was another area of expertise where tempers ran high when secrets were shared and custom and practice challenged. I witnessed many vehement arguments regarding the growing of exhibition leeks and wondered how grown men could allow themselves to be dominated by the obsession with secrecy and the preservation of the status quo. I gave up on the growing of leeks as I didn't have the passion and commitment. I do however have a set of s/h pipes, as yet unplayed by me, made by Mick Wilkins I also have the Cock and Bryan book and the unrealised ambition to make a set of my own. Does anyone know of Mick Wilkins? Apparently he lived in Bradford, UK. Vernon On 17 May 2011, at 22:46, barr...@nspipes.co.uk wrote: Personally, I think that any attempt to compare Mike Nelson's Book and website with the Cocks and Bryan Pipemaking book is a bit like comparing apples and pears. Jim Bryan's book was an honest attempt at getting at getting information about pipemaking as it was understood within NPS circles into the public domain and he received some criticism for 'revealing secrets'. The main value of the book lies in the drawings as far as I am concerned. They have there inaccuracies and in some cases errors but nevertheless they contain much valuable information about classic pipe design. Many pipemakers (including Mike Nelson) have started their 'careers' by making the a set of pipes using the drawings of a simple set made by Dunn for Peacock. Mike Nelson brought his skills in engineering design to pipemaking and made a small number of sets (which are highly valued by their owners) and made his knowledge available to the piping community, initially through his book (published by Richard Butler) and more recently via his website. I have certainly encountered many parts of pipes which obviously came from Mike's drawings and I am aware that his book was widely photocopied. Barry Quoting Richard Shuttleworth rshuttlewo...@sympatico.ca: Mine is a hardback edition in pristine condition. Never used - I prefer the information on Mike Nelson's web site. Richard - Original Message - From: Philip Gruar phi...@gruar.clara.net To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 5:41 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: Cocks Bryan Book for sale I've got one with probably even more oil stains than the one for sale. Perhaps I could get more than $100 for mine. Philip To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Cocks Bryan Book for sale
Mine is a hardback edition in pristine condition. Never used - I prefer the information on Mike Nelson's web site. Richard - Original Message - From: Philip Gruar phi...@gruar.clara.net To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 5:41 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: Cocks Bryan Book for sale I've got one with probably even more oil stains than the one for sale. Perhaps I could get more than $100 for mine. Philip To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Cocks Bryan Book for sale
I have one of those too, but nobody seemed to be interested in it. Wayne On May 12, 2011, at 5:41 PM, Steve Bliven wrote: Posted on the Chiff Fipple Used Instruments Board by flutemaker Casey Burns; [1]http://forums.chiffandfipple.com/viewtopic.php?f=35t=82144 Am selling my old copy of The Northumbrian Bagpipes by Cocks and Bryan, published by the Northumbrian Pipers Society in 1975 There are a few handwritten notes inside, and the cover is faded some and there are the occasion dirt and oil stains (this lived in my workshop). Otherwise in good shape. $100 plus postage Email me at [2]caseyburnsflu...@gmail.com if interested Disclaimer: I know nothing more than what is posted here. I'm passing it on to the list on the chance that someone might be interested. Best wishes. Steve -- References 1. http://forums.chiffandfipple.com/viewtopic.php?f=35t=82144 2. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/caseyburnsflu...@gmail.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Cocks Bryan Book for sale
Wayne, I'd be glad to store it for you! --Rick On May 13, 2011, at 2:04 PM, wayne cripps wrote: I have one of those too, but nobody seemed to be interested in it. Wayne On May 12, 2011, at 5:41 PM, Steve Bliven wrote: Posted on the Chiff Fipple Used Instruments Board by flutemaker Casey Burns; [1]http://forums.chiffandfipple.com/viewtopic.php?f=35t=82144 Am selling my old copy of The Northumbrian Bagpipes by Cocks and Bryan, published by the Northumbrian Pipers Society in 1975 There are a few handwritten notes inside, and the cover is faded some and there are the occasion dirt and oil stains (this lived in my workshop). Otherwise in good shape. $100 plus postage Email me at [2]caseyburnsflu...@gmail.com if interested Disclaimer: I know nothing more than what is posted here. I'm passing it on to the list on the chance that someone might be interested. Best wishes. Steve -- References 1. http://forums.chiffandfipple.com/viewtopic.php?f=35t=82144 2. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/caseyburnsflu...@gmail.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Rick Damon richard.a.damon@dartmouth.edu A computer without Windows is like a chocolate chip cookie without ketchup.
[NSP] Re: Cocks Bryan Book for sale
I've got one as well. They can't be all that rare. Marianne. Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 14:09:16 -0400 To: wst...@cs.dartmouth.edu CC: steve.bli...@comcast.net; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu From: richard.a.damon@dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: Cocks Bryan Book for sale Wayne, I'd be glad to store it for you! --Rick On May 13, 2011, at 2:04 PM, wayne cripps wrote: I have one of those too, but nobody seemed to be interested in it. Wayne On May 12, 2011, at 5:41 PM, Steve Bliven wrote: Posted on the Chiff Fipple Used Instruments Board by flutemaker Casey Burns; [1]http://forums.chiffandfipple.com/viewtopic.php?f=35t=82144 Am selling my old copy of The Northumbrian Bagpipes by Cocks and Bryan, published by the Northumbrian Pipers Society in 1975 There are a few handwritten notes inside, and the cover is faded some and there are the occasion dirt and oil stains (this lived in my workshop). Otherwise in good shape. $100 plus postage Email me at [2]caseyburnsflu...@gmail.com if interested Disclaimer: I know nothing more than what is posted here. I'm passing it on to the list on the chance that someone might be interested. Best wishes. Steve -- References 1. http://forums.chiffandfipple.com/viewtopic.php?f=35t=82144 2. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/caseyburnsflu...@gmail.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Rick Damon richard.a.damon@dartmouth.edu A computer without Windows is like a chocolate chip cookie without ketchup. --
[NSP] Re: Cocks Bryan Book for sale
I have a 1967 hardback copy in blue that is marked Tankerville and came from the sale of the contents of Chillingham Castle. Just that bit special so I`ll hang onto it!!! Regards, Guy Tindale --- On Fri, 13/5/11, Marianne Hall allerwa...@hotmail.com wrote: From: Marianne Hall allerwa...@hotmail.com Subject: [NSP] Re: Cocks Bryan Book for sale To: richard.a.damon@dartmouth.edu, wst...@cs.dartmouth.edu Cc: steve.bli...@comcast.net, nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Friday, 13 May, 2011, 19:49 I've got one as well. They can't be all that rare. Marianne. Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 14:09:16 -0400 To: [1]wst...@cs.dartmouth.edu CC: [2]steve.bli...@comcast.net; [3]nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu From: [4]richard.a.damon@dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: Cocks Bryan Book for sale Wayne, I'd be glad to store it for you! --Rick On May 13, 2011, at 2:04 PM, wayne cripps wrote: I have one of those too, but nobody seemed to be interested in it. Wayne On May 12, 2011, at 5:41 PM, Steve Bliven wrote: Posted on the Chiff Fipple Used Instruments Board by flutemaker Casey Burns; [1][5]http://forums.chiffandfipple.com/viewtopic.php?f=35t=82144 Am selling my old copy of The Northumbrian Bagpipes by Cocks and Bryan, published by the Northumbrian Pipers Society in 1975 There are a few handwritten notes inside, and the cover is faded some and there are the occasion dirt and oil stains (this lived in my workshop). Otherwise in good shape. $100 plus postage Email me at [2][6]caseyburnsflu...@gmail.com if interested Disclaimer: I know nothing more than what is posted here. I'm passing it on to the list on the chance that someone might be interested. Best wishes. Steve -- References 1. [7]http://forums.chiffandfipple.com/viewtopic.php?f=35t=82144 2. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/[8]caseyburnsflu...@gmail.com To get on or off this list see list information at [9]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Rick Damon [10]richard.a.damon@dartmouth.edu A computer without Windows is like a chocolate chip cookie without ketchup. -- -- References 1. http://uk.mc870.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wst...@cs.dartmouth.edu 2. http://uk.mc870.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=steve.bli...@comcast.net 3. http://uk.mc870.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. http://uk.mc870.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=richard.a.damon@dartmouth.edu 5. http://forums.chiffandfipple.com/viewtopic.php?f=35t=82144 6. http://uk.mc870.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=caseyburnsflu...@gmail.com 7. http://forums.chiffandfipple.com/viewtopic.php?f=35t=82144 8. http://uk.mc870.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=caseyburnsflu...@gmail.com 9. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 10. http://uk.mc870.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=richard.a.damon@dartmouth.edu
