[NSP] Re: TOTM/Drones
If I can change the tune in question to illustrate a point. Oyster Wives' Rant which appears in Peacock's Tunes is also well known in another tradition as Mullen Dhu. In that tradition it is played against A drones and becomes yet another Scottish tune with not a lot to recommend it. When the Northumbrian pipers got hold of it, I am sure they would have played it against G drones and played in this way it becomes to me a very exciting and harmonically interesting tune. In the days of the simple chanter, Northumbrian pipers mercilessly butchered tunes from other traditions to fit them to the pipes. - Anyone remember the story of The Bed of Procrustes? In doing so we got such gems as The Bonny Pit Lad. I remember well being at a 'G' music session with Johnny Handle playing accordion and at one time he stopped playing, and at the end of the tune said, That's a real pipe tune. Ye cannot put any chords to it. I don't think we should expect our music to always obey rules derived from other traditions. From an earlier e-mail Quoting gibbonssoi...@aol.com: But is the best thing we can say about it that it's grammatical? So is Chomsky's 'Colourless green ideas sleep furiously', though it is totally meaningless. The sentence may be meaningless but it is still pleasant to the ear, and very challenging in a 1960s sort of way. Barry To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: TOTM/Drones
On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 9:43 AM, [1]barr...@nspipes.co.uk wrote: If I can change the tune in question to illustrate a point. or rather, to miss the point (IMO)! The point is that, in a tune such as Oyster Wife or Wild Hills or 'Skye Crofters' or Swallow's Tail, which all have the modal centre of A throughout, drones tuned to A/E make good musical sense. In tunes which have a modal centre shifting between A and C (Cuckold, Peacock Follows, Fairly Shot, Little Wat Ye), A/E drones disguise this shift to the point of obliterating it. That is my point, made in an earlier response. Of course I recognise that I am against the tide with this view, and that's fine by me. As for the Oyster Wife, IMO it is the ONLY tune in Peacock's Tunes which suits a change of drone tuning, and in my experience it has plenty to recommend it. I even like it so much that my version has twice as many strains. Fraternally and grumpily yours! :-) Oyster Wives' Rant which appears in Peacock's Tunes is also well known in another tradition as Mullen Dhu. In that tradition it is played against A drones and becomes yet another Scottish tune with not a lot to recommend it. When the Northumbrian pipers got hold of it, I am sure they would have played it against G drones and played in this way it becomes to me a very exciting and harmonically interesting tune. In the days of the simple chanter, Northumbrian pipers mercilessly butchered tunes from other traditions to fit them to the pipes. - Anyone remember the story of The Bed of Procrustes? In doing so we got such gems as The Bonny Pit Lad. I remember well being at a 'G' music session with Johnny Handle playing accordion and at one time he stopped playing, and at the end of the tune said, That's a real pipe tune. Ye cannot put any chords to it. I don't think we should expect our music to always obey rules derived from other traditions. From an earlier e-mail Quoting [2]gibbonssoi...@aol.com: But is the best thing we can say about it that it's grammatical? So is Chomsky's 'Colourless green ideas sleep furiously', though it is totally meaningless. The sentence may be meaningless but it is still pleasant to the ear, and very challenging in a 1960s sort of way. Barry -- References 1. mailto:barr...@nspipes.co.uk 2. mailto:gibbonssoi...@aol.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: TOTM/Drones
Being a drone musician Peacock might have had an insight into the tonality of the tune. The first impulse is to think he just wanted to fit it on the keyless chanter. It's in Em (the relative minor of G). Ending on an A, the tune is usually said to be in Am which, which, as Barry points out, misses the point altogether. Another Highland tune that moves intact to the NSP and also seems happier there is The Little Cascade. William Donaldson called it a Modernist masterpiece, but I think he didn't hear that the tune would lose all it's supposed Modernism when played against G drones, which fit its modality better than A drones. Like the other meddling Modernist, Campbell of Kilberry, he imposed his 20th century High Art ideals on a music that gets along quite nicely without them. On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 1:43 AM, [1]barr...@nspipes.co.uk wrote: If I can change the tune in question to illustrate a point. Oyster Wives' Rant which appears in Peacock's Tunes is also well known in another tradition as Mullen Dhu. In that tradition it is played against A drones and becomes yet another Scottish tune with not a lot to recommend it. When the Northumbrian pipers got hold of it, I am sure they would have played it against G drones and played in this way it becomes to me a very exciting and harmonically interesting tune. In the days of the simple chanter, Northumbrian pipers mercilessly butchered tunes from other traditions to fit them to the pipes. - Anyone remember the story of The Bed of Procrustes? In doing so we got such gems as The Bonny Pit Lad. I remember well being at a 'G' music session with Johnny Handle playing accordion and at one time he stopped playing, and at the end of the tune said, That's a real pipe tune. Ye cannot put any chords to it. I don't think we should expect our music to always obey rules derived from other traditions. From an earlier e-mail Quoting [2]gibbonssoi...@aol.com: But is the best thing we can say about it that it's grammatical? So is Chomsky's 'Colourless green ideas sleep furiously', though it is totally meaningless. The sentence may be meaningless but it is still pleasant to the ear, and very challenging in a 1960s sort of way. Barry To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:barr...@nspipes.co.uk 2. mailto:gibbonssoi...@aol.com 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: TOTM/Drones
Hi -- I have posted the Mad Moll on Northumbrianpipers forum so all interested can have a look at an early version of the tune. Quite possibly it is a droneless undefined key tune -- I have no idea and am not qualified to hazard a quess Dave On 8/1/2011 7:37 PM, Matt Seattle wrote: On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 5:12 PM, John Dally[1]dir...@gmail.com wrote: Being a drone musician Peacock might have had an insight into the tonality of the tune. The first impulse is to think he just wanted to fit it on the keyless chanter. It's in Em (the relative minor of G). Ending on an A, the tune is usually said to be in Am which, which, as Barry points out, misses the point altogether. It's in 'A neutral', a gapped scale, neither major nor minor (although Peacock's version has a fleeting c, absent from other versions), it just happens to start on the 5th of the scale (e). I can't agree that it's in E anything. It fits perfectly because unlike most Highland pipe tunes the high a is absent, so no clipping required. -- References 1. mailto:dir...@gmail.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus Database: 1518/3800 - Release Date: 07/31/11
