[NSP] Re: question about number of keys
Quoting "matthieu.bopp" : .. a 17 keyed chanter, but now i am wondering. Are there some keys that are almost never used? i know it all depends on the repertoire. ... Hi Matthieu, It really is down to your choice. A 'standard' 17k would encompass a two octave range from low B to top b including top B flat. - If you want to play the acrobat or the golden eagle a top c is a better choice but is both hard to play and hard to tune. - Middle B flat is also one of the least used but I kept mine in to play in Dm (Roslin castle) - Low D sharp is relatively unused but needed for some tunes in Em The more metal work is on the chanter the more the balance changes and the better the reed has to be (in my experience, opinions differ). Based on all of this, I've ended up with an 11 key (G sharps, F nat) which I use for almost all piping repetoire including tunes with bottom C or B ( I fake it and harmonise). I also use a custom 17k which really comes in to it's own when playing non-piping repetoire: - dropped: top c, top Bb, low D sharp - added: low G, low A ( I use the A more than the G) Since playing 17 key chanters, I'm more of an advocate for 11k (or less!) as it's more musical - but that's my journey and may not be yours. ... my 'definitive' set ... stock for a possible change of chanter Absolutely - I also play a simple keyless chanter which is an absolute joy and occasional play a concert pitch chanter which isn't. All of them plug into the same stock. If I'm sorting a set out for someone I invariably put an interchangeable stock in - this should really be a standard thing to do as it makes maintenance easier as well. cheers Rob To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: question about number of keys
Hi R & M
Lots of good sense there from Rob. Kathryn uses a 15 key set if memory
serves - certainly no top Bb and I think no bottom D#, but as Rob says,
it comes down to personal choice. The more keys the harder the
maintenance and the harder it is to get the best sound. Also remember
that you'd be using the same thumb for up to 14 keys - a bit like
playing the piano with one finger - hard to make it sound musical. I
loved my 12 key G chanter - normal 7 + 2G#s + top F nat + low B & low
C. I then got a 17 key chanter - it drove me mad and I decided it would
be better to learn the fiddle to play that repertoire. The speed of
movement to get the lilt into the faster tunes is the problem, even at
a moderate pace some of the notes need to be over and done with so
quickly.
Interchangeable stocks - a must I reckon.
As aye
Anthony
--- On Sun, 12/7/09, rob@milecastle27.co.uk
wrote:
From: rob@milecastle27.co.uk
Subject: [NSP] Re: question about number of keys
To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu
Date: Sunday, 12 July, 2009, 3:22 PM
Quoting "matthieu.bopp" <[1]matthieu.b...@laposte.net>:
..
>a 17 keyed chanter, but now i am wondering. Are there some keys
that
>are almost never used? i know it all depends on the repertoire.
...
Hi Matthieu,
It really is down to your choice. A 'standard' 17k would encompass a
two octave range from low B to top b including top B flat.
- If you want to play the acrobat or the golden eagle a top c is a
better choice but is both hard to play and hard to tune.
- Middle B flat is also one of the least used but I kept mine in to
play in Dm (Roslin castle)
- Low D sharp is relatively unused but needed for some tunes in Em
The more metal work is on the chanter the more the balance changes and
the better the reed has to be (in my experience, opinions differ).
Based on all of this, I've ended up with an 11 key (G sharps, F nat)
which I use for almost all piping repetoire including tunes with bottom
C or B ( I fake it and harmonise). I also use a custom 17k which really
comes in to it's own when playing non-piping repetoire:
- dropped: top c, top Bb, low D sharp
- added: low G, low A ( I use the A more than the G)
Since playing 17 key chanters, I'm more of an advocate for 11k (or
less!) as it's more musical - but that's my journey and may not be
yours.
>... my 'definitive' set ... stock for a possible change of
chanter
Absolutely - I also play a simple keyless chanter which is an absolute
joy and occasional play a concert pitch chanter which isn't. All of
them plug into the same stock. If I'm sorting a set out for someone I
invariably put an interchangeable stock in - this should really be a
standard thing to do as it makes maintenance easier as well.
cheers
Rob
To get on or off this list see list information at
[2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
References
1. http://uk.mc12.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=matthieu.b...@laposte.net
2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: question about number of keys
I was dissuaded by my maker from getting a top Bflat. Good sense, I never would have used it. I got a top C instead, which I've never used. No criticism of the maker implied here. So we're immediately down to 16. Strangely enough, I never use the low Csharp As for low Dsharp, I might use it more (for grace notes) if it was on the opposite side of the chanter from the E (idem Csharp if it was on the opposite side from the D). Some makers use this configuration, which I gather has been much discussed in the past. So depending on your maker, you might want neither of these. Down to 14. Not much call for low Bflat in standard repertoire. So probably 13 is as many as you would ever realistically need unless you're a top virtuoso pushing the envelope. BTW, my chanter is beautiful and excellent. I just would have ordered it to different specifications if I had known then what I know now. HTH chirs To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: question about number of keys
Dear Matthieu, Rob's advice of eleven keys is very good, I think. However, if you are going to get lower notes and you want flexibility, don't let anyone talk you out of getting low C#. You will want to be able to play in D and A major (so low A might be a good idea, as well). My chanter, designed with much soul searching and advice from the maker has those 14 keys: seven plus Fs and G#s, plus low C#, C and B. I still think it was the right choice, but there are tunes for which one longs for low A. A is of course the key in which you can play in four modes (from major to minor). You can play The Bonnie Lass of Bon Accord without low A, but it would be much nicer to have it. I don't think it would work well without the C#. There are eminent pipers who maintain that tunes like that really should be played on the fiddle rather than the pipes, but then they can play the fiddle! Cheers, Ewan. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: question about number of keys
>don't let anyone talk you out of getting low C#. But if you do get one, I would recommend getting it on the opposite side of the chanter from the B and the D - it's hard to do a run over three consecutive keys! I know this is contrary to the normal practice of some highly respected makers (whom I have no wish to criticise), but I've never understood the rational of Csharp on the same side as D or dsharp on same side as E. c To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: question about number of keys
Chris said: As for low Dsharp, I might use it more (for grace notes) if it was on the opposite side of the >chanter from the E (idem Csharp if it was on the opposite side from the D). Some makers use >this configuration, which I gather has been much discussed in the past. So depending on your maker, you might want neither of these. BTW, my chanter is beautiful and excellent. I just would have ordered it to different >specifications if I had known then what I know now. Chris, almost anything is possible, up to a point. It would not be beyond the pipe-maker's art to alter an existing chanter so the keys were the other way round - quite an interesting challenge in fact! The redundant holes could be filled - almost invisibly but not quite, if the player didn't mind still just about seeing where they were - or else the bottom section could be cut off and a new one spliced in with the holes in different places. You'd have to pay for a bit of new key-making, but some of the old ones would be re-used, so it wouldn't be too bad. I have made chanters with both configurations of low C#/D# - and I imagine the other makers have too. I know Colin has made many different arrangements of the low keys (Colin?) but of course we always keep the "classical" seven in the same places, so that a player used to just the basic seven keys should be able to pick up a multi-keyed chanter and not notice the difference, except for the minimum necessary extra weight. The first multi-key extended chanters I made had the C# on the left, paired with E. One slight disadvantage of this is that the C# key is long, and hinged well above its half-way point. Not really a problem, though. D# was with the low D - which I think is what Reid and Baty did when the chanter was first extended, and David Burleigh followed in that tradition. After discussing it with other pipe-makers and asking advice from better players than me, I have now changed to putting the C# on the right, with the D. It's more "elegant" to have more equal-length keys paired together, and on the whole, I think players just get used to what they have. But experienced players also differ in what they prefer, and I believe there are good arguments to support either arrangement, some tunes being easier one way and other tunes the other way. So with an experienced player, I would always ask what they want, and am quite prepared to make either. From a maker's point of view - we usually try to persuade our customers away from the top B flat, since it's awkward to make, though of course we'll do it if the player really wants it. The lower B flat is not a problem, though unlike most of the other extra keys, it can't be added later. If the player thinks he/she may want a low B flat later, the protruding bump has to be left on the chanter ready for it. Don't know if this helps Matthieu - probably not! Philip To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: question about number of keys
But if you do get one, I would recommend getting it on the opposite side of the chanter from the >B and the D - it's hard to do a run over three consecutive keys! I know this is contrary to the normal practice of some highly respected makers (whom I have no >wish to criticise), but I've never understood the rational of Csharp on the same side as D or >dsharp on same side as E. I think it depends on whether you want to play fast (scale) runs or fast arpeggio/broken chord patterns. The next question is where to put the low A if you have one - on the back with the low B, and sacrifice the low C natural (or put that on the side instead of a D#) - use a triple slot on the back, or have the low A coming up over the top of the left-hand paired D#/E. Philip To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
