Re: [NTG-context] 3D PDF support (AKA asymptote support)
Michail Vidiassov wrote: Dear Hans, On Fri, 5 Jun 2009, Hans Hagen wrote: a draft for an analog of LaTeX movie15 package for including Adobe Reader compatible 3d models into PDF files is at i'll have a look at it next week; the interface needs some more thinking from my side; in principle we should not use externalfigure here but the rendering mechanism BTW, the mechanism ConTeXt uses to include movies (it served me as a starting point) is described in part 13.4 Movies of PDF 32000-1:2008 ISO/Adobe spec, but preceded there with the following note: The features described in this sub-clause are obsolescent and their use is no longer recommended. They are superseded by the general multimedia framework described in 13.2, ???Multimedia.??? Thus even more thinking may be desirable... well, the multimedia support has been there already for a while in context (not documented because when i played with it those parts of acrobat reader were not that stable yet) ... (x-res-50 uses some of it) and it's for this reason that the code sits in cont-new.tex - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] 3D PDF support (AKA asymptote support)
On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 6:07 AM, Michail Vidiassov mas...@iaas.msu.ruwrote: Dear Luigi, On Fri, 5 Jun 2009, luigi scarso wrote: Asymptote may be a better choice since it supports newer PRC 3D format Ouch, another new 3D format! This will never end. I bet no valuable Open Source modeler (i.e. blender) support this one. The fact that asy supports PRC is good but I have no illusion about the conclusion of the 3d formats' war (just an endless pain for developpers)... Asymptote has a prc dir asymptote-1.75/prc maybe can be a lib too.. To say the truth Adobe Acrobat SDK has PRC API in it, but it is Windows-only, goes for big-$$$ and for that is Not licensed to run in a batch or server mode. simple hacks to Makefiles in prc dir of Asymptote permit to compile test and PRCTools/makePRC As to the role of Adobe in 3D formats war - it reminds me of a quote attributed to a North Vietnamese general: You Americans have fast choppers and jeeps, so you can rapidly move troops to the point of engagemment. But we are _already_ there!. The installed base of Adobe Readers may be a new factor in that endless Tweedle D.* free-for-all ;) on linux Acrobat 9 SDK/Version 1/InterAppCommunicationSupport/CSamples/ReadPdfPrcVC/SampleFile/mower_carb.pdf crash acroread9 but not acroread8. -- luigi ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] 3D PDF support (AKA asymptote support)
Dear Hans, On Fri, 5 Jun 2009, Hans Hagen wrote: a draft for an analog of LaTeX movie15 package for including Adobe Reader compatible 3d models into PDF files is at i'll have a look at it next week; the interface needs some more thinking from my side; in principle we should not use externalfigure here but the rendering mechanism BTW, the mechanism ConTeXt uses to include movies (it served me as a starting point) is described in part 13.4 Movies of PDF 32000-1:2008 ISO/Adobe spec, but preceded there with the following note: The features described in this sub-clause are obsolescent and their use is no longer recommended. They are superseded by the general multimedia framework described in 13.2, “Multimedia.” Thus even more thinking may be desirable... Sincerely, Michail___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
[NTG-context] 3D PDF support (AKA asymptote support)
Dear Hans, Mojca and All, a draft for an analog of LaTeX movie15 package for including Adobe Reader compatible 3d models into PDF files is at http://www.iaas.msu.ru/tmp/movie15context.tgz . Almost no docs/comments inside, but questions are of course welcome. You'd better take a brief look at part 5.2 of movie15 docs http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/latex/contrib/movie15/doc/movie15.pdf and part 13.6 of ISO/Adobe PDF spec http://www.adobe.com/devnet/acrobat/pdfs/PDF32000_2008.pdf to understand what are the settings. Since I lack understanding of ConTeXt/luatex combo and have to pass data for dictionaries containing other dictionaries to 3D model embedder I had to abuse two existing parameters, control and display and rely on sane lua code being put there. And even the limited parameter correctness checks do not report problems, they just silently fail to execute. One more option to deal with 3D models is not to embed them as annotations in the main PDF file, but to make a PDF with only 3D model in it and attach it to the main PDF, linking to a clickable 2D image (like attachfile2 LaTeX package). Donno if that functionality is in working condition now and how to use it. Sincerely, Michail ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] 3D PDF support (AKA asymptote support)
On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 6:14 PM, Michail Vidiassov mas...@iaas.msu.ruwrote: Dear Hans, Mojca and All, a draft for an analog of LaTeX movie15 package for including Adobe Reader compatible 3d models into PDF files is at http://www.iaas.msu.ru/tmp/movie15context.tgz . Almost no docs/comments inside, but questions are of course welcome. You'd better take a brief look at part 5.2 of movie15 docs http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/latex/contrib/movie15/doc/movie15.pdf and part 13.6 of ISO/Adobe PDF spec http://www.adobe.com/devnet/acrobat/pdfs/PDF32000_2008.pdf to understand what are the settings. Since I lack understanding of ConTeXt/luatex combo and have to pass data for dictionaries containing other dictionaries to 3D model embedder I had to abuse two existing parameters, control and display and rely on sane lua code being put there. And even the limited parameter correctness checks do not report problems, they just silently fail to execute. One more option to deal with 3D models is not to embed them as annotations in the main PDF file, but to make a PDF with only 3D model in it and attach it to the main PDF, linking to a clickable 2D image (like attachfile2 LaTeX package). Donno if that functionality is in working condition now and how to use it. Sincerely, Michail hi michael some time ago Renaud Aubin discover http://meshlab.sourceforge.net/ cfr Renaud Aubin 2008-11-22 19:132008-11-22 18:13 +100UTC Re: [NTG-context] embedding 3d pdf -- luigi ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] 3D PDF support (AKA asymptote support)
Dear Luigi, On Fri, 5 Jun 2009, luigi scarso wrote: a draft for an analog of LaTeX movie15 package for including Adobe Reader compatible 3d models into PDF files is at hi michael some time ago Renaud Aubin discover http://meshlab.sourceforge.net/ 2008-11-22 19:132008-11-22 18:13 +100UTC Re: [NTG-context] embedding 3d pdf Sorry, I fail to understand your comment. On one hand, MeshLab can convert from other 3D formats to U3D (older Adobe format) and embed U3D into PDF files via LaTeX with movie15 package, thus it may be useful in 3D PDF workflow in general, on the other hand it does not have anything to do with ConTeXt. As to the module Renaud Aubin wrote to support 3D annotations - it is mkii thing, for example it uses definefileinsertion that did not find its way into mkiv IMHO. While MeshLab may be of great use if you have to convert old data or process output from some existing tool, in cases when you make your model from scratch by hand or create 3D model file in your own program Asymptote may be a better choice since it supports newer PRC 3D format, that is much richer in features and has better prospects when it comes to support and development by Adobe. On the minus side Asymptote is under active development and some of its advantages are not there yet - but so is ConTeXt. Sincerely,, Michail ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] 3D PDF support (AKA asymptote support)
On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 8:02 PM, Michail Vidiassov mas...@iaas.msu.ruwrote: Dear Luigi, On Fri, 5 Jun 2009, luigi scarso wrote: a draft for an analog of LaTeX movie15 package for including Adobe Reader compatible 3d models into PDF files is at hi michael some time ago Renaud Aubin discover http://meshlab.sourceforge.net/ 2008-11-22 19:132008-11-22 18:13 +100UTC Re: [NTG-context] embedding 3d pdf Sorry, I fail to understand your comment. ah, it's not a comment at all. Just to keep 3d things under the same subject On one hand, MeshLab can convert from other 3D formats to U3D (older Adobe format) and embed U3D into PDF files via LaTeX with movie15 package, thus it may be useful in 3D PDF workflow in general, on the other hand it does not have anything to do with ConTeXt. While MeshLab may be of great use if you have to convert old data or process output from some existing tool, in cases when you make your model from scratch by hand or create 3D model file in your own program Asymptote may be a better choice since it supports newer PRC 3D format, that is much richer in features and has better prospects when it comes to support and development by Adobe. On the minus side Asymptote is under active development and some of its advantages are not there yet - but so is ConTeXt. yes just now with blender http://www.blender.org/features-gallery/features/ and meshlib one can (in theory) embed 3d models using \executesystemcommand and your macros. BTW I'm not aware of any opensource tools (apart asymptote) that are PRC 3D-able: do you ? Sincerely,, Michail ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___ -- luigi ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] 3D PDF support (AKA asymptote support)
Michail Vidiassov a écrit : While MeshLab may be of great use if you have to convert old data or process output from some existing tool, in cases when you make your model from scratch by hand or create 3D model file in your own program Asymptote may be a better choice since it supports newer PRC 3D format, that is much richer in features and has better prospects when it comes to support and development by Adobe. On the minus side Asymptote is under active development and some of its advantages are not there yet - but so is ConTeXt. Ouch, another new 3D format! This will never end. I bet no valuable Open Source modeler (i.e. blender) support this one. The fact that asy supports PRC is good but I have no illusion about the conclusion of the 3d formats' war (just an endless pain for developpers)... Renaud ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] 3D PDF support (AKA asymptote support)
Dear Renaud, On Fri, 5 Jun 2009, Renaud Aubin wrote: Asymptote may be a better choice since it supports newer PRC 3D format, that is much richer in features and has better prospects when it comes to support and development by Adobe. Ouch, another new 3D format! This will never end. I bet no valuable Open Source modeler (i.e. blender) support this one. The fact that asy supports PRC is good but I have no illusion about the conclusion of the 3d formats' war (just an endless pain for developpers)... IMHO the major difference is that Adobe Reader is a 3D viewer with quite a userbase and lots of support resources behind. While the failure of 3D community to accept U3D as 3D JPEG is deplorable, PRC prospects in Adobe seem bright - they have bought the format together with the authors, make noises about submitting it to ISO, released documentation... From my experience of work with U3D, writing an exporter turned out to be not that difficult, since for U3D there is VRML-like intermediate text format, but figuring out what are the limitations of Adobe viewer takes a lot of time. I do not remember if that applies to Blender, but googling showed me that in 2006-2007 people asked questions in lists/forums of 3D software pieces about 3D PDF output, but neither users were interested, nor developers excited. Sincrely, Michail ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] 3D PDF support (AKA asymptote support)
On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 9:28 PM, Renaud Aubin au...@nibua-r.org wrote: Michail Vidiassov a écrit : While MeshLab may be of great use if you have to convert old data or process output from some existing tool, in cases when you make your model from scratch by hand or create 3D model file in your own program Asymptote may be a better choice since it supports newer PRC 3D format, that is much richer in features and has better prospects when it comes to support and development by Adobe. On the minus side Asymptote is under active development and some of its advantages are not there yet - but so is ConTeXt. Ouch, another new 3D format! This will never end. I bet no valuable Open Source modeler (i.e. blender) support this one. The fact that asy supports PRC is good but I have no illusion about the conclusion of the 3d formats' war (just an endless pain for developpers)... Asymptote has a prc dir asymptote-1.75/prc maybe can be a lib too.. -- luigi ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] 3D PDF support (AKA asymptote support)
Michail Vidiassov wrote: Dear Hans, Mojca and All, a draft for an analog of LaTeX movie15 package for including Adobe Reader compatible 3d models into PDF files is at i'll have a look at it next week; the interface needs some more thinking from my side; in principle we should not use externalfigure here but the rendering mechanism i'll see if i can provide some more helpers in the backend module (i have to find back some pdf constructor functions) it's anyway a good starting point; thanks Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] 3D PDF support (AKA asymptote support)
Dear Luigi, On Fri, 5 Jun 2009, luigi scarso wrote: Asymptote may be a better choice since it supports newer PRC 3D format Ouch, another new 3D format! This will never end. I bet no valuable Open Source modeler (i.e. blender) support this one. The fact that asy supports PRC is good but I have no illusion about the conclusion of the 3d formats' war (just an endless pain for developpers)... Asymptote has a prc dir asymptote-1.75/prc maybe can be a lib too.. To say the truth Adobe Acrobat SDK has PRC API in it, but it is Windows-only, goes for big-$$$ and for that is Not licensed to run in a batch or server mode. As to the role of Adobe in 3D formats war - it reminds me of a quote attributed to a North Vietnamese general: You Americans have fast choppers and jeeps, so you can rapidly move troops to the point of engagemment. But we are _already_ there!. The installed base of Adobe Readers may be a new factor in that endless Tweedle D.* free-for-all ;) Sincerely, Michail ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : https://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
