Re: [NTG-context] About Hyphenation
On 7/25/2013 3:24 AM, Andres Conrado Montoya wrote:
So, it seems that this configuration worked (more or less), to avoid:
Widows, Orphans, 3 or more consecutive hyphens, and final hyphens.
\startsetups[grid][correcto]
\setups[*reset]
\setpenalties\widowpenalties{1}{1}
\setpenalties\clubpenalties{1}{1}
\stopsetups
\doublehyphendemerits=3
\finalhyphendemerits=3
\adjdemerits=1
\brokenpenalty1\relax
we occasionally have to use such high values due to publishers demands
but keep in mind that the solution space becomes pretty small, so if the
rest of the output looks less optimal: don't complain (personally for me
it's always the moment that i try to hide the fact that tex is used)
automated typesetting fulfilling all constraints is in most cases (read:
always) impossible so among the options are: inject an occasional manual
pagebreak (once the context is fixed) or adapt the content in real nasty
cases
Hans
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Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands
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Re: [NTG-context] About Hyphenation
So, it seems that this configuration worked (more or less), to avoid:
Widows, Orphans, 3 or more consecutive hyphens, and final hyphens.
\startsetups[grid][correcto]
\setups[*reset]
\setpenalties\widowpenalties{1}{1}
\setpenalties\clubpenalties{1}{1}
\stopsetups
\doublehyphendemerits=3
\finalhyphendemerits=3
\adjdemerits=1
\brokenpenalty1\relax
Thank you all for your time.
Andrés Conrado Montoya
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Re: [NTG-context] About Hyphenation
On 2013–07–24 Wolfgang Schuster wrote: > > Apparently \brokenpenalty is not supposed to be used with > > \setpenalties, see spac-ver.mkiv : > > > >\setpenalties\widowpenalties\plustwo\maxdimen > >\setpenalties\clubpenalties \plustwo\maxdimen > > \brokenpenalty \maxdimen > > > > Actually I don't yet know what's the deal with the \setpenalties > > command and why it's used for some penalties and not for others. > > You have to differ between the \…penalty command which come > from Knuths TeX and \…penalties which are introduced with etex. > > While Knuths command accept only a single value (e.g. \widowpenlty=1000) > the new commands accepts multiple values which are taken for individual > lines of a paragraph (e.g. \widowpenalties 3 3000 4500 9000). I learned something new today. > The \setpenalties command simplifies the setups of the new commands. Combined with the aforementioned new knowledge, this totally makes sense. > The reason why \widowpenalties doesn’t work with \setpenalties is that > no command with this names exist (I never checked this for my example > in the past). I couldn't find the definition neither in the TeXbook, nor the ConTeXt sources. That's why. Thanks for the explanation. Marco signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] About Hyphenation
Am 24.07.2013 um 20:54 schrieb Marco Patzer : > Apparently \brokenpenalty is not supposed to be used with > \setpenalties, see spac-ver.mkiv : > >\setpenalties\widowpenalties\plustwo\maxdimen >\setpenalties\clubpenalties \plustwo\maxdimen > \brokenpenalty \maxdimen > > Actually I don't yet know what's the deal with the \setpenalties > command and why it's used for some penalties and not for others. You have to differ between the \…penalty command which come from Knuths TeX and \…penalties which are introduced with etex. While Knuths command accept only a single value (e.g. \widowpenlty=1000) the new commands accepts multiple values which are taken for individual lines of a paragraph (e.g. \widowpenalties 3 3000 4500 9000). The \setpenalties command simplifies the setups of the new commands. The reason why \widowpenalties doesn’t work with \setpenalties is that no command with this names exist (I never checked this for my example in the past). A penalties command wouldn’t even make sense because the penalty prevents only the page break after a hyphen. Wolfgang ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] About Hyphenation
On 2013–07–24 Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> How about a example for us!
\starttext
%% \brokenpenalty1\relax
\setpenalties\brokenpenalties{1}{1}
\dorecurse{4}{\input knuth}
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consetetur sadipscing elitr, sed diam nonumy eirmod
tempor invidunt ut labore et dolore magna aliquyam erat, sed diam voluptua. At
vero eos et accusam et justo duo dolores et ea rebum.
Atvero eosetaccusam etjustoduodolores etearebum.
Stetclita kasdgubergren, noseatakimatasanctusest.
Atvero eosetaccusam etjustoduodolores etearebum.
Stetclita kasdgubergren, noseatakimatasanctusest.
Atvero eosetaccusam etjustoduodolores etearebum.
Stetclita kasdgubergren, noseatakimatasanctusest.
Atvero eosetaccusam etjustoduodolores etearebum.
Stetclita kasdgubergren, noseatakimatasanctusest.
Atvero eosetaccusam etjustoduodolores etearebum.
Stetclita kasdgubergren, noseatakimatasanctusest.
Atvero eosetaccusam etjustoduodolores etearebum.
Stetclita kasdgubergren, noseatakimatasanctusest.
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consetetur sadipscing elitr, sed diam nonumy eirmod
tempor invidunt ut labore et dolore magna aliquyam erat, sed diam voluptua.
Atvero eosetaccusam etjustoduodolores etearebum.
Stetclita kasdgubergren, noseatakimatasanctusest.
\stoptext
Apparently \brokenpenalty is not supposed to be used with
\setpenalties, see spac-ver.mkiv :
\setpenalties\widowpenalties\plustwo\maxdimen
\setpenalties\clubpenalties \plustwo\maxdimen
\brokenpenalty \maxdimen
Actually I don't yet know what's the deal with the \setpenalties
command and why it's used for some penalties and not for others.
Marco
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Re: [NTG-context] About Hyphenation
Am 24.07.2013 um 20:22 schrieb Andres Conrado Montoya :
> Thanks, Marco. That seems to work with final hyphens.
> Why this does not work instead?: \setpenalties\brokenpenalties{1}{1}
> I have tried both, but your solution works better.
How about a example for us!
Wolfgang
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Re: [NTG-context] About Hyphenation
Thanks, Marco. That seems to work with final hyphens.
Why this does not work instead?: \setpenalties\brokenpenalties{1}{1}
I have tried both, but your solution works better.
Andrés Conrado Montoya
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Re: [NTG-context] About Hyphenation
On 2013–07–23 Andres Conrado Montoya wrote: > \setupalign[verytolerant,stretch,lesshyphenation,hz,hanging] From my experience, stretch often leads to rather terrible spacing. I avoid it if wherever I can. > 1. Is there any definitive way of avoiding […] hyphens at the end of a page? The penalty \brokenpenalty tells TeX how bad it is to break a page at a hyphen. \brokenpenalty1\relax Marco signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
[NTG-context] About Hyphenation
Hi List, I am very grateful with you all. Thanks for all the teaching.
Sorry if the message is too long.
I have read in several places that the commands \doublehyphendemerits and
\finalhyphendemerits are not a "real" way of dealing with the design issue
of too many hyphens in a row and/or avoiding a hyphen at the end of a page.
I have found that \doublehyphendemerits just avoids TWO hyphens in a row,
but not three or four, etc., and \finalhyphendemerits just doesn't work. I
have read the code, the wiki, the mail list, and the manuals, but with no
success yet. I'm working with grid, and using a widow/orphan control macro
found here on this list:
\setupalign[verytolerant,stretch,lesshyphenation,hz,hanging]
\startsetups[grid][correcto]
\setups[*reset]
\setpenalties\widowpenalties{1}{1}
\setpenalties\clubpenalties{1}{1}
\setpenalties\brokenpenalties{1}{2}
\stopsetups
\doublehyphendemerits=2
\finalhyphendemerits=2
\setuplayout
[backspace=10.3ex,
width=62ex,
topspace=10.3ex,
height=124ex,
header=1em,
headerdistance=1em,
footer=1em,
footerdistance=2em,
margindistance=1em,
grid=yes,
setups=correcto]
As a book designer, one of my dreams is migrate all my work to ConTeXt, and
stop using adobe products; I think ConTeXt is a very good design tool.
However, this obstacle is frustrating that dream in part. I know that you
may say "this hyphenation issue is a matter of taste! is not important!"
but all the publishers I have worked with in the last 15 years have
emphasized that rule over and over again. I'm Colombian, so, I design books
mainly in spanish, and in spanish editions is a very common rule to avoid
more than 2 hyphens in a row. I understand that there are similar rules in
french, and I have read some discussions about it, but mostly the thread
finishes with something similar to "use ragged right align and forget
hyphens" (see http://www.mail-archive.com/ntg-context@ntg.nl/msg68899.html).
So, questions are:
1. Is there any definitive way of avoiding 2 or more hyphens on a row AND
hyphens at the end of a page?
2. If is not, and it seems that is not (see
http://latex-community.org/know-how/latex/55-latex-general/475-e-tex#line-breaking)
how
do you manage? Do you just let hyphens be? Do you avoid hyphens using
\unhyphenated or \mbox by hand? No problem, if it's the standard solution,
but I think there should be some mechanism to avoid (n+) hyphens on a row,
something like \maxadjhyphens[2]. Is this impossible / too difficult? If it
is, I'm sorry for bothering you. I just really want to work with ConTeXt. I
have done a couple books for myself, to learn, but I want to take this into
production, and this single issue, so insignificant you may see it, is very
important for me, and I'm sure that other designers would find it very
important too.
Thank you all for your time.
Andrés Conrado Montoya
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