[NTG-context] Re: bibliography questions
Sorry, pandoc, not procmail.On Oct 5, 2023 09:05, Rik Kabel wrote:On Oct 3, 2023 16:32, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:Am 03.10.23 um 02:02 schrieb Alan Braslau:
> On Mon, 2 Oct 2023 13:13:52 +0200
> Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:
>
>> Consider:
>> @Book {rattenhka,
>> author = "Bettina von Arnim and Gisela von Arnim",
>> title = "Das Leben der Hochgräfin Gritta von Rattenzuhausbeiuns",
>> …
>> }
>>
>> The authors are usually given as “Bettina and Gisela von Arnim”
>> (mother and daughter; similar “Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm” as brothers
>> or “Bettina and Achim von Arnim” as a couple) – is there a good
>> solution for related authors?
>
> Multiple authors should be treated as multiple authors. That they are
> related is not and should not be a consideration in citing works. At
> least this is the practice that I know of for academic texts.
>
> You can cheat and try to define one author with a combined first name,
> like
> author={Eames, Ray & Earl},
> but I don't know how that parses as I have never tried it; "and" is a
> reserved token used to define multiple authors. I wouldn't do it as I
> can think of many examples (Bjaer & Bjaer) where we give both credit,
> individually.
Thank you.
It seems like database solutions like BibTeX & Cie are generally not
suitable for quoting books as they were published – and that’s important
in the contexts of “my” authors (literary studies, history).
For my ConTeXt book, I thought it would make sense, and I would jump
through some hoops just to use the system, but
– most sources that I want to list are never quoted (method=dataset)
– I would need to define my own rendering, e.g. don’t like the handling
of names
– I need additional fields (custom rendering again)
– if I refer to sources, I want a URL or file path in a footnote (custom
cite wrapper macro)
This all works fine without the btx subsysten (I just need to find
solutions for some edge cases, or avoid them), so I probably had wrong
ideas about bibliographies (at least in TeX).
OTOH, for my novel I can use the bib database approach for an extended
person register; the required rendering is much less involved.
Hraban
___I got around this issue by generating ConTeXt source with procmail, my bib file, and a slightly customized CSL file. This gives me a bibliography that I modify with a Vim script to handle special cases as you describe, all controlled by a makefile. I insert the result into my document instead of using placebiographyI can provide more details if there is interest once I return home from travels.-- Rik___
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[NTG-context] Re: bibliography questions
On Oct 3, 2023 16:32, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:Am 03.10.23 um 02:02 schrieb Alan Braslau:
> On Mon, 2 Oct 2023 13:13:52 +0200
> Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:
>
>> Consider:
>> @Book {rattenhka,
>> author = "Bettina von Arnim and Gisela von Arnim",
>> title = "Das Leben der Hochgräfin Gritta von Rattenzuhausbeiuns",
>> …
>> }
>>
>> The authors are usually given as “Bettina and Gisela von Arnim”
>> (mother and daughter; similar “Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm” as brothers
>> or “Bettina and Achim von Arnim” as a couple) – is there a good
>> solution for related authors?
>
> Multiple authors should be treated as multiple authors. That they are
> related is not and should not be a consideration in citing works. At
> least this is the practice that I know of for academic texts.
>
> You can cheat and try to define one author with a combined first name,
> like
> author={Eames, Ray & Earl},
> but I don't know how that parses as I have never tried it; "and" is a
> reserved token used to define multiple authors. I wouldn't do it as I
> can think of many examples (Bjaer & Bjaer) where we give both credit,
> individually.
Thank you.
It seems like database solutions like BibTeX & Cie are generally not
suitable for quoting books as they were published – and that’s important
in the contexts of “my” authors (literary studies, history).
For my ConTeXt book, I thought it would make sense, and I would jump
through some hoops just to use the system, but
– most sources that I want to list are never quoted (method=dataset)
– I would need to define my own rendering, e.g. don’t like the handling
of names
– I need additional fields (custom rendering again)
– if I refer to sources, I want a URL or file path in a footnote (custom
cite wrapper macro)
This all works fine without the btx subsysten (I just need to find
solutions for some edge cases, or avoid them), so I probably had wrong
ideas about bibliographies (at least in TeX).
OTOH, for my novel I can use the bib database approach for an extended
person register; the required rendering is much less involved.
Hraban
___I got around this issue by generating ConTeXt source with procmail, my bib file, and a slightly customized CSL file. This gives me a bibliography that I modify with a Vim script to handle special cases as you describe, all controlled by a makefile. I insert the result into my document instead of using placebiographyI can provide more details if there is interest once I return home from travels.-- Rik___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the
Wiki!
maillist : {listname} / https://mailman.ntg.nl/mailman3/lists/{list_id}
webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / https://context.aanhet.net (mirror)
archive : https://github.com/contextgarden/context
wiki : https://wiki.contextgarden.net
___
[NTG-context] Re: bibliography questions
Am 03.10.23 um 23:08 schrieb Aditya Mahajan: On Tue, 3 Oct 2023, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote: For my ConTeXt book, I thought it would make sense, and I would jump through some hoops just to use the system, but – most sources that I want to list are never quoted (method=dataset) – I would need to define my own rendering, e.g. don’t like the handling of names – I need additional fields (custom rendering again) – if I refer to sources, I want a URL or file path in a footnote (custom cite wrapper macro) When I have to write your own rendering, I find it more convenient to use XML/JSON (or even a lua table) as a starting format. I don’t understand how a custom rendering relates to the input database? My bib database is already complete, and I find the format much more comfortable to write than XML. Hraban ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : https://contextgarden.net ___
[NTG-context] Re: bibliography questions
On Tue, 3 Oct 2023, Henning Hraban Ramm wrote: > For my ConTeXt book, I thought it would make sense, and I would jump through > some hoops just to use the system, but > – most sources that I want to list are never quoted (method=dataset) > – I would need to define my own rendering, e.g. don’t like the handling of > names > – I need additional fields (custom rendering again) > – if I refer to sources, I want a URL or file path in a footnote (custom cite > wrapper macro) When I have to write your own rendering, I find it more convenient to use XML/JSON (or even a lua table) as a starting format. Aditya___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : https://contextgarden.net ___
[NTG-context] Re: bibliography questions
Am 03.10.23 um 02:02 schrieb Alan Braslau:
On Mon, 2 Oct 2023 13:13:52 +0200
Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:
Consider:
@Book {rattenhka,
author = "Bettina von Arnim and Gisela von Arnim",
title = "Das Leben der Hochgräfin Gritta von Rattenzuhausbeiuns",
…
}
The authors are usually given as “Bettina and Gisela von Arnim”
(mother and daughter; similar “Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm” as brothers
or “Bettina and Achim von Arnim” as a couple) – is there a good
solution for related authors?
Multiple authors should be treated as multiple authors. That they are
related is not and should not be a consideration in citing works. At
least this is the practice that I know of for academic texts.
You can cheat and try to define one author with a combined first name,
like
author={Eames, Ray & Earl},
but I don't know how that parses as I have never tried it; "and" is a
reserved token used to define multiple authors. I wouldn't do it as I
can think of many examples (Bjaer & Bjaer) where we give both credit,
individually.
Thank you.
It seems like database solutions like BibTeX & Cie are generally not
suitable for quoting books as they were published – and that’s important
in the contexts of “my” authors (literary studies, history).
For my ConTeXt book, I thought it would make sense, and I would jump
through some hoops just to use the system, but
– most sources that I want to list are never quoted (method=dataset)
– I would need to define my own rendering, e.g. don’t like the handling
of names
– I need additional fields (custom rendering again)
– if I refer to sources, I want a URL or file path in a footnote (custom
cite wrapper macro)
This all works fine without the btx subsysten (I just need to find
solutions for some edge cases, or avoid them), so I probably had wrong
ideas about bibliographies (at least in TeX).
OTOH, for my novel I can use the bib database approach for an extended
person register; the required rendering is much less involved.
Hraban
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the
Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki : https://contextgarden.net
___
[NTG-context] Re: bibliography questions
On Mon, 2 Oct 2023 13:13:52 +0200
Henning Hraban Ramm wrote:
> Consider:
> @Book {rattenhka,
> author = "Bettina von Arnim and Gisela von Arnim",
> title = "Das Leben der Hochgräfin Gritta von Rattenzuhausbeiuns",
> …
> }
>
> The authors are usually given as “Bettina and Gisela von Arnim”
> (mother and daughter; similar “Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm” as brothers
> or “Bettina and Achim von Arnim” as a couple) – is there a good
> solution for related authors?
Multiple authors should be treated as multiple authors. That they are
related is not and should not be a consideration in citing works. At
least this is the practice that I know of for academic texts.
You can cheat and try to define one author with a combined first name,
like
author={Eames, Ray & Earl},
but I don't know how that parses as I have never tried it; "and" is a
reserved token used to define multiple authors. I wouldn't do it as I
can think of many examples (Bjaer & Bjaer) where we give both credit,
individually.
Alan
___
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the
Wiki!
maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net
archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/
wiki : https://contextgarden.net
___
