[NTG-context] Re: missing space with French quotation
Alan Braslau schrieb am 07.06.2024 um 16:21:
I have *never* understood how this works and, in fact, have always done
weird stuff like explicitly putting a nbps before double punctuation
(:;) in my document sources. I do this as it makes the sources much
more readable, preventing my text editor from ever breaking lines
before the punctuation (and not having some space in the source looks
awkward when reading French text).
I use:
[...]
This gives proper spacing with \quotation{} and with \startquotation
... \stopquotation. Also, {\en\quotation{}} and {\de\quotation{}} in
the document correctly do not add spaces.
1. \setcharacterspacing[frenchpunctuation] takes care about the space
before/after quotation marks when you use manual quotes in a document.
It doesn't matter whether you use or don't use space between the
quotations marks and the quoted text.
begin example
\starttext
\startlines
«quoted text»
« quoted text »
\stoplines
\setcharacterspacing[frenchpunctuation]
\startlines
«quoted text»
« quoted text »
\stoplines
\stoptext
end example
2. When you use the quotation command or environment ConTeXt adds a
space between the quotation marks and the quoted text by itself but in
the quotation-environment the space before the closing mark disappears
when you add \setcharacterspacing.
begin example
\language[fr]
\starttext
\startquotation
quoted text
\stopquotation
\quotation{quoted text}
\setcharacterspacing[frenchpunctuation]
\startquotation
quoted text
\stopquotation
\quotation{quoted text}
\stoptext
end example
Is \setupquotation[symstyle=\resetcharacterspacing] necessary?
It's a temporary fix for the problem with the quotation environment by
disabling the characterspacing mechanism when ConTeXt places the
quotation marks.
Wolfgang
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[NTG-context] Re: missing space with French quotation
I have *never* understood how this works and, in fact, have always done
weird stuff like explicitly putting a nbps before double punctuation
(:;) in my document sources. I do this as it makes the sources much
more readable, preventing my text editor from ever breaking lines
before the punctuation (and not having some space in the source looks
awkward when reading French text).
I use:
\setupcharacterspacing
[frenchpunctuation]
[language=fr]
\mainlanguage [fr]
\setcharacterspacing [frenchpunctuation] % why necessary?
\setupitemize [symbol=2] % dash rather than bullet
This gives proper spacing with \quotation{} and with \startquotation
... \stopquotation. Also, {\en\quotation{}} and {\de\quotation{}} in
the document correctly do not add spaces.
Is \setupquotation[symstyle=\resetcharacterspacing]
necessary?
Alan
On Fri, 7 Jun 2024 14:18:19 +0200
Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
> Peter Münster schrieb am 07.06.2024 um 13:31:
> > On Thu, May 30 2024, Peter Münster wrote:
> >
> >> \mainlanguage[fr]
> >> \setcharacterspacing[frenchpunctuation]
> >> \starttext
> >> bla \quotation{OK} bla\\
> >> bla «OK» bla
> >> \startquotation
> >>Not Ok: a space is missing
> >> \stopquotation
> >> \stoptext
> >
> > It seems, that this workaround solves the problem:
> > \setupquotation[before={\setcharacterspacing[reset]}]
>
>
> The quotation environment doesn't rely on the characterspacing
> mechanism to add the spaces before and the after the quotes but uses
> language dependent skips.
>
> The example below shows how it works and where it fails when you use
> characterspacing. Resetting spacing (and probably other settings like
> charcterkerning etc.) when the quotes are added as you noticed fixes
> the problem.
>
> begin example
> \starttext
>
> \dontleavehmode
> \hbox{«\hspace[fr][quotation]}%
> xxx%
> \hbox{\hspace[fr][quotation]»}
>
> \setcharacterspacing[frenchpunctuation]
>
> \dontleavehmode
> \hbox{«\hspace[fr][quotation]}%
> xxx%
> \hbox{\hspace[fr][quotation]»}
>
> \dontleavehmode
> \hbox{\expand\everyresettypesetting\relax «\hspace[fr][quotation]}%
> xxx%
> \hbox{\expand\everyresettypesetting\relax \hspace[fr][quotation]»}
>
> \stoptext
> end example
>
> > What do you think about it? Is this the right way to do it?
>
> I would use the symstyle key as hook to disable charcterspacing for
> the quotes in the environment.
>
> begin example
> \mainlanguage[fr]
>
> \setcharacterspacing[frenchpunctuation]
>
>
>
> \starttext
>
> «xxx»
>
> \startquotation xxx\stopquotation
>
> \stoptext
> end example
>
> Wolfgang
> ___
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an
> entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl /
> https://mailman.ntg.nl/mailman3/lists/ntg-context.ntg.nl webpage :
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> https://wiki.contextgarden.net
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[NTG-context] Re: missing space with French quotation
Peter Münster schrieb am 07.06.2024 um 13:31:
On Thu, May 30 2024, Peter Münster wrote:
\mainlanguage[fr]
\setcharacterspacing[frenchpunctuation]
\starttext
bla \quotation{OK} bla\\
bla «OK» bla
\startquotation
Not Ok: a space is missing
\stopquotation
\stoptext
It seems, that this workaround solves the problem:
\setupquotation[before={\setcharacterspacing[reset]}]
The quotation environment doesn't rely on the characterspacing mechanism
to add the spaces before and the after the quotes but uses language
dependent skips.
The example below shows how it works and where it fails when you use
characterspacing. Resetting spacing (and probably other settings like
charcterkerning etc.) when the quotes are added as you noticed fixes the
problem.
begin example
\starttext
\dontleavehmode
\hbox{«\hspace[fr][quotation]}%
xxx%
\hbox{\hspace[fr][quotation]»}
\setcharacterspacing[frenchpunctuation]
\dontleavehmode
\hbox{«\hspace[fr][quotation]}%
xxx%
\hbox{\hspace[fr][quotation]»}
\dontleavehmode
\hbox{\expand\everyresettypesetting\relax «\hspace[fr][quotation]}%
xxx%
\hbox{\expand\everyresettypesetting\relax \hspace[fr][quotation]»}
\stoptext
end example
What do you think about it? Is this the right way to do it?
I would use the symstyle key as hook to disable charcterspacing for the
quotes in the environment.
begin example
\mainlanguage[fr]
\setcharacterspacing[frenchpunctuation]
\setupquotation[symstyle=\resetcharacterspacing]
\starttext
«xxx»
\startquotation xxx\stopquotation
\stoptext
end example
Wolfgang
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[NTG-context] Re: missing space with French quotation
On Thu, May 30 2024, Peter Münster wrote:
> \mainlanguage[fr]
> \setcharacterspacing[frenchpunctuation]
> \starttext
> bla \quotation{OK} bla\\
> bla «OK» bla
> \startquotation
> Not Ok: a space is missing
> \stopquotation
> \stoptext
It seems, that this workaround solves the problem:
\setupquotation[before={\setcharacterspacing[reset]}]
What do you think about it? Is this the right way to do it?
--
Peter
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[NTG-context] Re: missing space with French quotation
On Thu, May 30 2024, Peter Münster wrote: > Is this a bug or a feature? And if it’s a bug, will it be fixed? TIA for any hints, -- Peter ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://mailman.ntg.nl/mailman3/lists/ntg-context.ntg.nl webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / https://context.aanhet.net (mirror) archive : https://github.com/contextgarden/context wiki : https://wiki.contextgarden.net ___
[NTG-context] Re: missing space with French quotation
My apologies to all, and thank you, Wolfgang. Time to update my notes.
--
Rik
On 2024-05-30 16:33, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:
Rik Kabel schrieb am 30.05.2024 um 19:21:
From my basic environment file, a useful reminder:
%% \mainlanguage sets language used for labels (TOC, chapters, ...)
%% \language sets language to use for hyphenation, quote rules, ...
\mainlanguage includes all settings of \language.
As you can see in the following example \mainlanguage change the float
label and the quotation marks but \language changes only the quotation
marks and uses the label of the main language.
begin example
\starttext
\startplacefigure[title=\quotation{English quotes}]
\midaligned{\blackrule[width=6cm,height=2cm,color=red]}
\stopplacefigure
\start \mainlanguage[nl]
\startplacefigure[title=\quotation{Dutch quotes}]
\midaligned{\blackrule[width=6cm,height=2cm,color=green]}
\stopplacefigure
\stop
\start \language[fr]
\startplacefigure[title=\quotation{French quotes}]
\midaligned{\blackrule[width=6cm,height=2cm,color=blue]}
\stopplacefigure
\stop
\stoptext
end example
Wolfgang
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[NTG-context] Re: missing space with French quotation
Rik Kabel schrieb am 30.05.2024 um 19:21:
From my basic environment file, a useful reminder:
%% \mainlanguage sets language used for labels (TOC, chapters, ...)
%% \language sets language to use for hyphenation, quote rules, ...
\mainlanguage includes all settings of \language.
As you can see in the following example \mainlanguage change the float
label and the quotation marks but \language changes only the quotation
marks and uses the label of the main language.
begin example
\starttext
\startplacefigure[title=\quotation{English quotes}]
\midaligned{\blackrule[width=6cm,height=2cm,color=red]}
\stopplacefigure
\start \mainlanguage[nl]
\startplacefigure[title=\quotation{Dutch quotes}]
\midaligned{\blackrule[width=6cm,height=2cm,color=green]}
\stopplacefigure
\stop
\start \language[fr]
\startplacefigure[title=\quotation{French quotes}]
\midaligned{\blackrule[width=6cm,height=2cm,color=blue]}
\stopplacefigure
\stop
\stoptext
end example
Wolfgang
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[NTG-context] Re: missing space with French quotation
From my basic environment file, a useful reminder:
%% \mainlanguage sets language used for labels (TOC, chapters, ...)
%% \language sets language to use for hyphenation, quote rules, ...
--
Rik
On 2024-05-30 11:34, Peter Münster wrote:
Hi,
When using \start/stopquotation in French documents, there is a missing space:
\mainlanguage[fr]
\setcharacterspacing[frenchpunctuation]
\starttext
bla \quotation{OK} bla\\
bla «OK» bla
\startquotation
Not Ok: a space is missing
\stopquotation
\stoptext
Is this a bug or a feature?
How could I get a space before "»" please?
TIA for any help,___
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