Re: [NTG-context] define vs setup

2012-07-26 Thread Hans Hagen

On 26-7-2012 05:21, S Barmeier wrote:

You can \setup what you \define|d yourself and \setup what is
pre\define|d, but not \setup something that is not \define|d.

Maybe ;)


it depends .. often it's:

\definexx[whatever]
\definexx[whatever][settings]
\definexx[another][parent]
\definexx[another][parent][settings]

\setupxx[settings]
\setupxx[another][settings]
\setupxx[whatever][settings]

sometimes there are no defines because a feature is generic or global in 
nature. often a define generates a command (\whatever, \startwhatever), etc


btw, a redefine does not reset already set parameters (in mkii that is 
often the case but not in mkiv)


it all depends on what kind of functionality you're dealing with

Hans

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Re: [NTG-context] define vs setup

2012-07-26 Thread Bill Meahan

On 07/26/2012 04:13 AM, Hans Hagen wrote:

On 26-7-2012 05:21, S Barmeier wrote:

You can \setup what you \define|d yourself and \setup what is
pre\define|d, but not \setup something that is not \define|d.

Maybe ;)


it depends .. often it's:

\definexx[whatever]
\definexx[whatever][settings]
\definexx[another][parent]
\definexx[another][parent][settings]

\setupxx[settings]
\setupxx[another][settings]
\setupxx[whatever][settings]

sometimes there are no defines because a feature is generic or global in
nature. often a define generates a command (\whatever, \startwhatever), etc

btw, a redefine does not reset already set parameters (in mkii that is
often the case but not in mkiv)

it all depends on what kind of functionality you're dealing with

Hans



OK, let's deal with a specific use case.

I'm publisher/editor/reporter/photographer/mailer/janitor/coffeemaker 
for an organizational newsletter. I've done lots of other newsletters 
before but using DTP programs. I really want to use ConTeXt for this one
because the layout is (required to be) absolutely identical from one 
issue to the next.


Like a traditional newspaper, the front page will contain the masthead, 
headline and (for this one) a mandatory Privacy Act Notification. I'm 
virtually certain I can handle the three special bits using layers and
which will leave the margins and text area the same as the rest of the 
pages albeit with no header or footer. Hence, by definition, the front 
page is a makeup page for which the examples on the wiki are a bit, 
shall we say, sparse.


Without the makeup page, a \setuplayout [settings] works just 
wonderfully - I have a dummy with which I'm doing testing so I actually 
tried it. :)


Would I correctly, then, do the following:

% Global layout
\setuplayout
[settings]

\definelayout
[frontpage]
[settings]   % Only those things that are different from the global

\definemakeup
[frontpage]

% other definitions, fonts yadda, yadda, yadda

\starttext

\startmakeup [frontpage]
% place the layers

% content

\stopmakup

% continue content as required

\stoptext

Sorry for the length of this note but I thought it better to explain the 
whole thing upfront than in bits and pieces.


Thanks for all the help. I'm really loving ConTeXt but switching after
mumble years of using LaTeX and DTP programs is proving a little more 
of a challenge than I expected. Old dogs *can* learn new tricks but it 
takes a bit more work. :)


--
Bill Meahan, Westland, Michigan USA

“Writing is a combination of intangible
  creative fantasy and appallingly
  hard work.”

  —Anthony Powell


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Re: [NTG-context] define vs setup

2012-07-26 Thread Marco Patzer
On 2012-07-26 Bill Meahan wmeaha...@gmail.com wrote:

Hi Bill,

it's a typo:

 \stopmakup

\stopmakeup


Marco

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Re: [NTG-context] define vs setup

2012-07-26 Thread Bill Meahan

On 07/26/2012 11:34 AM, Marco Patzer wrote:

On 2012-07-26 Bill Meahan wmeaha...@gmail.com wrote:

Hi Bill,

it's a typo:


\stopmakup


\stopmakeup



Sorry 'bout that. :)

I've never been a good typist even though I can dump a lot of text 
into a file in a short time. It *is* correct in my actual test file.



--
Bill Meahan, Westland, Michigan USA

“Writing is a combination of intangible
  creative fantasy and appallingly
  hard work.”

  —Anthony Powell


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Re: [NTG-context] define vs setup

2012-07-26 Thread Mojca Miklavec
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 5:04 PM, Bill Meahan wrote:

 I really want to use ConTeXt for this one
 because the layout is (required to be) absolutely identical from one issue
 to the next.

There is one thing that I warmly suggest you to do, and that is making
backups of ConTeXt versions that you use for production. ConTeXt is
lightweight enough, so you can easily afford storing the versions you
use along with content, and then try to compile your documents both
with the latest  greatest version as well as some backup version,
just to make sure that everything is still perfectly fine in both.
MKII is stable, but MKIV is still a moving target and from time to
time one or the other thing changes (LaTeX is in a sense way more
stable, but on the other hand 99.9% of the time you have no chance
that anyone would implement any feature request to make your life
easier).

Mojca
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Re: [NTG-context] define vs setup

2012-07-26 Thread Khaled Hosny
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 06:15:31PM +0200, Mojca Miklavec wrote:
 LaTeX is in a sense way more stable

Which is mostly an illusion, packages do change all the time,
hyphenation patterns change, fonts change and engines change (even
pdfTeX), and unlike ConTeXt backups are much harder to take (short of
backing up your whole TeX Live installation).

Regards,
 Khaled
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[NTG-context] define vs setup

2012-07-25 Thread Bill Meahan

I'm confused again. :\

When do you use a \defineSOMETHING instead of \setupSOMETHING ?

Must something be \define'ed before it is \setup or is it the other 
way around or is one required or one not or Reading the manual and 
wiki just leaves me more confused since examples are given which use one 
OR the other but don't seem to require both. Or am I missing something 
again.


Reading the pages for the individual commands doesn't help since it is 
often the case the page detailing the \define commands mostly seem

to imply \define inherits from \setup.

Sigh.

--
Bill Meahan, Westland, Michigan USA

“Writing is a combination of intangible
  creative fantasy and appallingly
  hard work.”

  —Anthony Powell


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Re: [NTG-context] define vs setup

2012-07-25 Thread S Barmeier
You can \setup what you \define|d yourself and \setup what is
pre\define|d, but not \setup something that is not \define|d.

Maybe ;)

Severin

On 07/26/2012 12:18 PM, Bill Meahan wrote:
 I'm confused again. :\
 
 When do you use a \defineSOMETHING instead of \setupSOMETHING ?
 
 Must something be \define'ed before it is \setup or is it the other
 way around or is one required or one not or Reading the manual and
 wiki just leaves me more confused since examples are given which use one
 OR the other but don't seem to require both. Or am I missing something
 again.
 
 Reading the pages for the individual commands doesn't help since it is
 often the case the page detailing the \define commands mostly seem
 to imply \define inherits from \setup.
 
 Sigh.
 
 
 
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