Re: [NTG-context] developer not verified error

[Hans Hagen]

On 11/19/2019 10:06 AM, Taco Hoekwater wrote:




On 18 Nov 2019, at 22:25, Alan Bowen  wrote:

This seems to be a problem peculiar to Catalina (macOS 10.15.1). There is a 
fix, as Otared and Glen have indicated.

go to Apple menu -> Preferences -> Security & Privacy
on the Security & Privacy, login, choose the tab General
there choose, towards the bottom of that pane, under « Allow apps 
downloaded from: »
choose the radio button App Store and identified developers
click the button «allow anyway»


There is a easier / safer way: open de folder with ‘mtxrun’ in it using Finder. 
Then select
‘Open’ from the popup menu on the mtxrun executable. That will give you dialog 
with that
’This app was downloaded …’ error, but now with an extra ‘Open’ button on it. 
Click that,
and it will start mtxrun once. Running mtxrun itself this ways is pointless, 
but it makes
Apple start to remember that *you* trust this mtxrun binary, and from now on it 
can be
used normally.

On packaged distributed Apps you download from the web, you can also hold down 
CTRL while
opening the App so you don’t have to do the Finder step, but I am not certain 
that works with
command-line binaries (and cannot test any more since I already did the ‘fix’ 
above).

It is a bit tedious, but sort of I see Apple’s point. Making it harder to run 
downloaded
unsigned executables is probably a good thing.
Kind of what windows does -) Remembering your choice (but I think also 
doing some virus scan on the first run and/or download).


Do we need to wikify these things? A page with "if this happens, do 
that" items? Or maybe some readme in the installer zips? I think one 
problem is that users have no clue (ok, tex will not be the only such 
app so in the end they will know and tex users are normally more in 
figuring-out-mode anyway).


Hans

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Re: [NTG-context] developer not verified error

[Taco Hoekwater]

> On 18 Nov 2019, at 22:25, Alan Bowen  wrote:
> 
> This seems to be a problem peculiar to Catalina (macOS 10.15.1). There is a 
> fix, as Otared and Glen have indicated.
> 
> go to Apple menu -> Preferences -> Security & Privacy
>   on the Security & Privacy, login, choose the tab General
>   there choose, towards the bottom of that pane, under « Allow apps 
> downloaded from: » 
>choose the radio button App Store and identified developers
>click the button «allow anyway»

There is a easier / safer way: open de folder with ‘mtxrun’ in it using Finder. 
Then select 
‘Open’ from the popup menu on the mtxrun executable. That will give you dialog 
with that 
’This app was downloaded …’ error, but now with an extra ‘Open’ button on it. 
Click that,
and it will start mtxrun once. Running mtxrun itself this ways is pointless, 
but it makes
Apple start to remember that *you* trust this mtxrun binary, and from now on it 
can be
used normally.

On packaged distributed Apps you download from the web, you can also hold down 
CTRL while 
opening the App so you don’t have to do the Finder step, but I am not certain 
that works with
command-line binaries (and cannot test any more since I already did the ‘fix’ 
above).

It is a bit tedious, but sort of I see Apple’s point. Making it harder to run 
downloaded
unsigned executables is probably a good thing.


Best wishes,
Taco
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Re: [NTG-context] developer not verified error

[Hans Hagen]

On 11/18/2019 10:32 PM, Henri Menke wrote:


In macOS Catalina Apple introduced “notarization”, i.e. anything you
install has to have Apple's blessing, otherwise it will refuse to
install and show you a message that it is malware.  Dick Koch,
maintainer of MacTeX ran into the same problems, as he presented at
TUG2019 and described in the corresponding TUGboat article:

 http://tug.org/TUGboat/tb40-2/tb125koch-harden.pdf


sounds like a lot of work ... now, with these nicely signed binaries, 
what about tex (or even lua code) ... in principle each of the 
additional files (with macros) should be tested too because they're 
basically programs themselves


(my ancient macbook os not updatable so i can't test it anyway, can't 
even run tex on it any more i think, so i'm forever protected against tex)


Hans

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Re: [NTG-context] developer not verified error

[Henri Menke]

On 11/17/19 5:09 AM, Mojca Miklavec wrote> First I thought that we would have 
troubles with the binaries as soon
> as GateKeeper was introduced (not sure which macOS version started
> causing troubles), but somehow there were none, which at least came as
> a pleasant surprise to me. Maybe this has to do with the fact that
> anything running inside Terminal has somewhat higher permissions than
> regular app bundles. (I know that Audacity doesn't allow recording
> unless you run it from the Terminal, for example.)

In macOS Catalina Apple introduced “notarization”, i.e. anything you
install has to have Apple's blessing, otherwise it will refuse to
install and show you a message that it is malware.  Dick Koch,
maintainer of MacTeX ran into the same problems, as he presented at
TUG2019 and described in the corresponding TUGboat article:

http://tug.org/TUGboat/tb40-2/tb125koch-harden.pdf

> I'm curious if that will work. I don't yet dare to upgrade to Catalina
> (in some ways the OS is worse with each new version).

I don't use macOS myself, but it seems that the quality of the latest
release is absolutely abysmal.

https://tyler.io/broken/

Cheers, Henri
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Re: [NTG-context] developer not verified error

[Alan Bowen]

This seems to be a problem peculiar to Catalina (macOS 10.15.1). There is a
fix, as Otared and Glen have indicated.

go to Apple menu -> Preferences -> Security & Privacy
on the Security & Privacy, login, choose the tab General
there choose, towards the bottom of that pane, under « Allow apps
downloaded from: »
   choose the radio button App Store and identified
developers
   click the button «allow anyway»

The macOS still chokes when you first try to update lmtx , but this time it
presents the option «Open». Select that and you are good to go.

So, thanks, guys.

And Mojca, yes, it is very confusing. Still, that seems to be all that one
has to do make the download. So perhaps there is no need for changes at
your end.

Cheers, Alan


On Sun, Nov 17, 2019 at 11:30 AM Keith McKay  wrote:

> This is the standard way to install "apps" on a mac, which have an unknown
> developer, to Apple anyway. It is a bit annoying when it happens especially
> when one has forgotten that you have to go through the Preferences dialog
> to get it to run. In my case it's an age thing.[image: 🙁]
>
> Best Wishes
>
> Keith McKay
> On 16/11/2019 22:27, Glen Helman wrote:
>
> There seems to be a way around this built into Catalina, however awkward
> it may be.
>
> I tried to install lmtx on a computer running Catalina that didn’t have an
> installation and received a similar error. (There seems to be a quarantine
> applying to the text of the script and not merely the file because I tried
> creating a new document with the same text and received the same response,
> and that response referred to the download of the original file.)
>
> I did find that the “general” tab under “security & privacy” in the system
> preferences had, in addition to the usual two choices, a reference to the
> downloaded script with a button reading “allow anyway” (or something to
> that effect). When I tried to run the script again after clicking that
> button, the “developer cannot  be verified” dialogue included “open” as a
> choice; and, when I clicked that, the script ran successfully and the
> installation was usable.
>
> I then tried the install script on another computer running Cataline where
> I had installed lmtx last spring. I ran into the “developer cannot be
> verified” response again, but the same workaround allowed the script to
> run, and the installation was updated.
>
> Glen Helman
>
> On Nov 15, 2019, at 4:36 PM, Alan Bowen  wrote:
>
> Though I was able to download the latest ConTeXt beta without any
> problems, my attempt to update my ConText-LMTX installation was blocked.
> The error message was
>
> *“mtxrun” cannot be opened because the developer cannot be verified*
> macOS cannot verify that this app is free from malware.
> Safari downloaded this file on April 29, 2019.
>
>  I am not sure why this is happening and wonder if it would OK to copy
> mxtrun from my ConTeXt installation and replace the version in my
> ConTeXt-LMTX installation with it.
>
> Alan
>
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Re: [NTG-context] developer not verified error

[Keith McKay]

This is the standard way to install "apps" on a mac, which have an 
unknown developer, to Apple anyway. It is a bit annoying when it happens 
especially when one has forgotten that you have to go through the 
Preferences dialog to get it to run. In my case it's an age thing.🙁


Best Wishes

Keith McKay

On 16/11/2019 22:27, Glen Helman wrote:
There seems to be a way around this built into Catalina, however 
awkward it may be.


I tried to install lmtx on a computer running Catalina that didn’t 
have an installation and received a similar error. (There seems to be 
a quarantine applying to the text of the script and not merely the 
file because I tried creating a new document with the same text and 
received the same response, and that response referred to the download 
of the original file.)


I did find that the “general” tab under “security & privacy” in the 
system preferences had, in addition to the usual two choices, a 
reference to the downloaded script with a button reading “allow 
anyway” (or something to that effect). When I tried to run the script 
again after clicking that button, the “developer cannot  be verified” 
dialogue included “open” as a choice; and, when I clicked that, the 
script ran successfully and the installation was usable.


I then tried the install script on another computer running Cataline 
where I had installed lmtx last spring. I ran into the “developer 
cannot be verified” response again, but the same workaround allowed 
the script to run, and the installation was updated.


Glen Helman

On Nov 15, 2019, at 4:36 PM, Alan Bowen > wrote:


Though I was able to download the latest ConTeXt beta without any 
problems, my attempt to update my ConText-LMTX installation was 
blocked. The error message was


*“mtxrun” cannot be opened because the developer cannot be verified*
macOS cannot verify that this app is free from malware.
Safari downloaded this file on April 29, 2019.

I am not sure why this is happening and wonder if it would OK to copy 
mxtrun from my ConTeXt installation and replace the version in my 
ConTeXt-LMTX installation with it.


Alan
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Re: [NTG-context] developer not verified error

[Glen Helman]

There seems to be a way around this built into Catalina, however awkward it may 
be.

I tried to install lmtx on a computer running Catalina that didn’t have an 
installation and received a similar error. (There seems to be a quarantine 
applying to the text of the script and not merely the file because I tried 
creating a new document with the same text and received the same response, and 
that response referred to the download of the original file.)

I did find that the “general” tab under “security & privacy” in the system 
preferences had, in addition to the usual two choices, a reference to the 
downloaded script with a button reading “allow anyway” (or something to that 
effect). When I tried to run the script again after clicking that button, the 
“developer cannot  be verified” dialogue included “open” as a choice; and, when 
I clicked that, the script ran successfully and the installation was usable.

I then tried the install script on another computer running Cataline where I 
had installed lmtx last spring. I ran into the “developer cannot be verified” 
response again, but the same workaround allowed the script to run, and the 
installation was updated.

Glen Helman

On Nov 15, 2019, at 4:36 PM, Alan Bowen 
mailto:bowenala...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Though I was able to download the latest ConTeXt beta without any problems, my 
attempt to update my ConText-LMTX installation was blocked. The error message 
was

“mtxrun” cannot be opened because the developer cannot be verified
macOS cannot verify that this app is free from malware.
Safari downloaded this file on April 29, 2019.

 I am not sure why this is happening and wonder if it would OK to copy mxtrun 
from my ConTeXt installation and replace the version in my ConTeXt-LMTX 
installation with it.

Alan
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Re: [NTG-context] developer not verified error

[Mojca Miklavec]

Dear Alan,

On Fri, 15 Nov 2019 at 22:37, Alan Bowen  wrote:
>
> Though I was able to download the latest ConTeXt beta without any problems, 
> my attempt to update my ConText-LMTX installation was blocked. The error 
> message was
>
> “mtxrun” cannot be opened because the developer cannot be verified
>
> macOS cannot verify that this app is free from malware.
>
> Safari downloaded this file on April 29, 2019.

Thanks a lot for the report, but I'm tripple-confused now.

First I thought that we would have troubles with the binaries as soon
as GateKeeper was introduced (not sure which macOS version started
causing troubles), but somehow there were none, which at least came as
a pleasant surprise to me. Maybe this has to do with the fact that
anything running inside Terminal has somewhat higher permissions than
regular app bundles. (I know that Audacity doesn't allow recording
unless you run it from the Terminal, for example.)

What confuses me most though is how the beta can work, while lmtx
doesn't. I have an impression that when you download something with
Safari as opposed to downloading with rsync, Safari simply "attaches"
something to the files automatically, marking them as "unsafe", and
unzipping doesn't really help either.

The difference between the usual context distribution and lmtx is that
lmtx usually starts by downloading it from the web (and also
transferring everything in a different way).

>  I am not sure why this is happening and wonder if it would OK to copy mxtrun 
> from my ConTeXt installation and replace the version in my ConTeXt-LMTX 
> installation with it.

I didn't look closely, but if mtxrun is just a symlink to luametatex,
can you maybe try to run

rsync -av \
rsync://contextgarden.net/builds/luametatex/x86_64-darwinlegacy/luametatex \
some/local/path/luametatex

to fetch luametatex and try to use that one? (You may try to make
mtxrun a symlink to it, or its copy.)

I'm curious if that will work. I don't yet dare to upgrade to Catalina
(in some ways the OS is worse with each new version).

If it doesn't work, we'll need to figure out how exactly to do the
notarisation (including paying 100 USD per year, which sounds stupid
enough from principle alone), and in any case we need to find a way to
make lmtx work for everyone.

Mojca
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Re: [NTG-context] developer not verified error

[Otared Kavian]

Hi Alan,

I don't know on which MacOS you are, but I am on MacOS 10.14.6, and never had 
such an issue with my installations of ConTeXt. I looked into my options of the 
so-called Gatekeeper on my machine, and remembered that I have done the 
following:

go to Apple menu -> Preferences -> Security & Privacy
on the Security & Privacy, choose the tab General
there choose, towards the bottom of that pane, under « Allow apps 
downloaded from: » choose  the radio button App Store and identified 
developpers.

Once this is done in principle you should be able to run the scripts install.sh 
or first-setup.sh and then run lmtx or context.

Best regards: OK


> On 15 Nov 2019, at 22:36, Alan Bowen  wrote:
> 
> Though I was able to download the latest ConTeXt beta without any problems, 
> my attempt to update my ConText-LMTX installation was blocked. The error 
> message was
> 
> “mtxrun” cannot be opened because the developer cannot be verified
> macOS cannot verify that this app is free from malware.
> Safari downloaded this file on April 29, 2019.
> 
>  I am not sure why this is happening and wonder if it would OK to copy mxtrun 
> from my ConTeXt installation and replace the version in my ConTeXt-LMTX 
> installation with it.
> 
> Alan
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Re: [NTG-context] developer not verified error

[Hans Hagen]

On 11/15/2019 10:36 PM, Alan Bowen wrote:
Though I was able to download the latest ConTeXt beta without any 
problems, my attempt to update my ConText-LMTX installation was blocked. 
The error message was


*“mtxrun” cannot be opened because the developer cannot be verified*

macOS cannot verify that this app is free from malware.

Safari downloaded this file on April 29, 2019.


I am not sure why this is happening and wonder if it would OK to copy 
mxtrun from my ConTeXt installation and replace the version in my 
ConTeXt-LMTX installation with it.
mtxrun in lmtx is just a copy of or link to luametatex and then runs a 
script with the same name


so basically the apple issue is that they don't see luametatex as 
something valid .. not much i can do about it (can you tell the system 
that it is an ok program?)


Hans

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[NTG-context] developer not verified error

[Alan Bowen]

Though I was able to download the latest ConTeXt beta without any problems,
my attempt to update my ConText-LMTX installation was blocked. The error
message was

*“mtxrun” cannot be opened because the developer cannot be verified*

macOS cannot verify that this app is free from malware.

Safari downloaded this file on April 29, 2019.


 I am not sure why this is happening and wonder if it would OK to copy
mxtrun from my ConTeXt installation and replace the version in my
ConTeXt-LMTX installation with it.


Alan
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