Re: [NTG-context] git or svn
On Thu, Sep 26 2013, Mica Semrick wrote: it could have been forked, branched, content added, pull request made. with svn: wait for access - commit ;) -- Peter ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] git or svn
On Fri, Sep 27 2013, Aditya Mahajan wrote: The last time I tried, merging multiple version in svn is a huge pain. One of the advantages of DVCS is that branching and merging are easy. I understand. Please go ahead if you need git. My preference for svn is just my personal opinion, coming from my personal experience: people wanted to change a well running system, using the latest and greatest tools. In the end, after quite some efforts, there was no benefit, it was just a bit more complicated. I'm just lucky doing my 3 svn-commits per year, and with git I would do git-commits. -- Peter ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] git or svn
On Sep 27, 2013, at 9:01 AM, Peter Münster pmli...@free.fr wrote: On Fri, Sep 27 2013, Aditya Mahajan wrote: The last time I tried, merging multiple version in svn is a huge pain. One of the advantages of DVCS is that branching and merging are easy. I understand. Please go ahead if you need git. My preference for svn is just my personal opinion, coming from my personal experience: people wanted to change a well running system, using the latest and greatest tools. In the end, after quite some efforts, there was no benefit, it was just a bit more complicated. +1 from me: I have exactly the same experience personally. I'm just lucky doing my 3 svn-commits per year, and with git I would do git-commits. +1 again. The manual is on supelec because that is where the metapost and luatex repositories are, and it is a subversion repo because when the project was first added, the software system on supelec did not understand git. The current version of Forge does support git repos, but I never switched since (as I wrote above) I have a small personal preference for subversion. So it would be possible to have a git on supelec; for that reason there is no need to switch to github. There may be a small advantage to staying with supelec as then the main project URL does not have to change. OTOH, supelec's email stuff breaks easily and somewhat often. Best wishes, Taco ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] git or svn
On 9/27/2013 3:38 AM, Taco Hoekwater wrote: On Sep 27, 2013, at 9:01 AM, Peter Münster pmli...@free.fr wrote: On Fri, Sep 27 2013, Aditya Mahajan wrote: The last time I tried, merging multiple version in svn is a huge pain. One of the advantages of DVCS is that branching and merging are easy. I understand. Please go ahead if you need git. My preference for svn is just my personal opinion, coming from my personal experience: people wanted to change a well running system, using the latest and greatest tools. In the end, after quite some efforts, there was no benefit, it was just a bit more complicated. +1 from me: I have exactly the same experience personally. I'm with Taco and Peter on this one. SVN is part of my everyday workflow; Git requires a lot more reading and fumbling. However I know the need to be fluent with Git is becoming more and more prevalent, and for many people it's already the easiest thing. So I wouldn't argue against moving to Git. I'm just reporting my preference. BTW I committed several changes to the manual yesterday, and plan to do a fair bit more in the coming week or two. I would appreciate if someone knowledgeable could check and make sure that I haven't said things that are misleading or incorrect. Lars ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] git or svn
On 9/26/2013 9:10 PM, Aditya Mahajan wrote: Github seems to be the most popular DVCS hosting site at the moment. For manuals, I think that Github is particularly useful because you can click on edit and make the change. Github automatically creates a fork, a new branch, and pull request for you. So the technical barrier to participation is low. I would question the perception that the technical barrier to participation on Github is low. Not long ago I tried to submit a patch to a project on Github, improving documentation and adding features. It took several hours (distributed over a couple of weeks) to learn how to do all that was required. It was *not* automatic. It strongly discouraged me from making more contributions to that project. Maybe some major things have changed on Github since then. In any case, I have no doubt that once you know the system, and have the infrastructure set up, it's easy to participate. And I'm not saying that SVN makes it easy for non-SVN users to participate. All I'm saying is that for non-Git users, the technical barrier to participation was substantial, last time I tried it. Again, I'm not arguing against a move to Git. I would just like to contribute my recent experience toward a well-informed decision process. Lars ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] git or svn
Dnia 2013-09-27, o godz. 09:10:04 Lars Huttar lars_hut...@sil.org napisał(a): On 9/26/2013 9:10 PM, Aditya Mahajan wrote: Github seems to be the most popular DVCS hosting site at the moment. For manuals, I think that Github is particularly useful because you can click on edit and make the change. Github automatically creates a fork, a new branch, and pull request for you. So the technical barrier to participation is low. I would question the perception that the technical barrier to participation on Github is low. Not long ago I tried to submit a patch to a project on Github, improving documentation and adding features. It took several hours (distributed over a couple of weeks) to learn how to do all that was required. It was *not* automatic. It strongly discouraged me from making more contributions to that project. Maybe some major things have changed on Github since then. In any case, I have no doubt that once you know the system, and have the infrastructure set up, it's easy to participate. And I'm not saying that SVN makes it easy for non-SVN users to participate. All I'm saying is that for non-Git users, the technical barrier to participation was substantial, last time I tried it. Again, I'm not arguing against a move to Git. I would just like to contribute my recent experience toward a well-informed decision process. Just my 3 cents. I am not a heavy Git user (though I am quite accustomed to Mercurial instead), and I agree that the entry point for Git is not very low. However, it seems that nowadays, for a *new* user, learning to use SVN is pointless (unless he joins a project where SVN is used etc.): distributed VCSs seem to be just much better (and I heard that SVN has its own problems, too). So I would perceive this question as touching a demography issue: younger people are more likely to know/use Git (and not know SVN), older folk might know/use SVN. Also, if this matters, Git has an excellent Emacs front-end, Magit. I don't know whether SVN has something similar. Lars Best, -- Marcin Borkowski http://octd.wmi.amu.edu.pl/en/Marcin_Borkowski Adam Mickiewicz University ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] git or svn
On Fri, Sep 27 2013, Marcin Borkowski wrote: However, it seems that nowadays, for a *new* user, learning to use SVN is pointless For our use case (enhancing the documentation) that's a nonissue: git or svn, there is nothing to learn, just pull, edit, commit. 3 lines on the project web page will show you what to do. Of course, if you choose a complicated workflow (maintaining several branches, test and validation cycles, commit signatures, and so on), then git would be a good choice, and yes, then you'll have to learn it. But please don't spend more time with the DVCS than with the improvement of the manual... ;) -- Peter ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] git or svn
On 9/27/2013 3:26 PM, Marcin Borkowski wrote: Also, if this matters, Git has an excellent Emacs front-end, Magit. I don't know whether SVN has something similar. github has a nice windows backend but (as with more open source developments) the real nice stuff is closed ... i tried several times but never could install easily some git server infrastructure similar to github on a (linux) server so at our company we stay with svn (but i keep copies of the context-on-github on my machine, but only for viewing) Hans - Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl - ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] git or svn
Maybe we can have the best of both: https://gist.github.com/ticean/1556967 ? On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 7:27 AM, Hans Hagen pra...@wxs.nl wrote: On 9/27/2013 3:26 PM, Marcin Borkowski wrote: Also, if this matters, Git has an excellent Emacs front-end, Magit. I don't know whether SVN has something similar. github has a nice windows backend but (as with more open source developments) the real nice stuff is closed ... i tried several times but never could install easily some git server infrastructure similar to github on a (linux) server so at our company we stay with svn (but i keep copies of the context-on-github on my machine, but only for viewing) Hans --**--**- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | voip: 087 875 68 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl --**--**- __**__** ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/** listinfo/ntg-context http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/**projects/contextrev/http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net __**__** ___ ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
[NTG-context] git or svn (was: ConTeXt Manual Errata)
On Thu, Sep 26 2013, Mica Semrick wrote: @Peter github makes collaboration quite painless. Users can manage their own accounts. I like git because of its features. And when I don't need those features, I prefer svn because of its simplicity. Where is the pain? What would be the benefit when moving to github? -1 (not worth the trouble for me) (On the other hand, if you sent me some bitcoins, I would be glad to copy contextman to github. ;) -- Peter ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] git or svn (was: ConTeXt Manual Errata)
Where is the pain? What would be the benefit when moving to github? On the thread someone wanted to add something to the manual, but didn't have SVN access. The admin wasn't getting email, and thus couldn't grant the new account. The material was not added the to manual. If the manual was on github, it could have been forked, branched, content added, pull request made. End of story. So we do want the features of github. On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 2:50 PM, Peter Münster pmli...@free.fr wrote: On Thu, Sep 26 2013, Mica Semrick wrote: @Peter github makes collaboration quite painless. Users can manage their own accounts. I like git because of its features. And when I don't need those features, I prefer svn because of its simplicity. Where is the pain? What would be the benefit when moving to github? -1 (not worth the trouble for me) (On the other hand, if you sent me some bitcoins, I would be glad to copy contextman to github. ;) -- Peter ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___ ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] git or svn (was: ConTeXt Manual Errata)
That is an excellent summation, Mica. On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 2:56 PM, Mica Semrick paperdig...@gmail.com wrote: Where is the pain? What would be the benefit when moving to github? On the thread someone wanted to add something to the manual, but didn't have SVN access. The admin wasn't getting email, and thus couldn't grant the new account. The material was not added the to manual. If the manual was on github, it could have been forked, branched, content added, pull request made. End of story. So we do want the features of github. On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 2:50 PM, Peter Münster pmli...@free.fr wrote: On Thu, Sep 26 2013, Mica Semrick wrote: @Peter github makes collaboration quite painless. Users can manage their own accounts. I like git because of its features. And when I don't need those features, I prefer svn because of its simplicity. Where is the pain? What would be the benefit when moving to github? -1 (not worth the trouble for me) (On the other hand, if you sent me some bitcoins, I would be glad to copy contextman to github. ;) -- Peter ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___ ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___ ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] git or svn (was: ConTeXt Manual Errata)
On Thu, 26 Sep 2013, Peter Münster wrote: On Thu, Sep 26 2013, Mica Semrick wrote: @Peter github makes collaboration quite painless. Users can manage their own accounts. I like git because of its features. And when I don't need those features, I prefer svn because of its simplicity. Where is the pain? The last time I tried, merging multiple version in svn is a huge pain. One of the advantages of DVCS is that branching and merging are easy. What would be the benefit when moving to github? Github seems to be the most popular DVCS hosting site at the moment. For manuals, I think that Github is particularly useful because you can click on edit and make the change. Github automatically creates a fork, a new branch, and pull request for you. So the technical barrier to participation is low. -1 (not worth the trouble for me) (On the other hand, if you sent me some bitcoins, I would be glad to copy contextman to github. ;) https://github.com/nirvdrum/svn2git Using this is usually as simple as svn2git http://svn.example.com/path/to/repo Aditya___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : http://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://tex.aanhet.net archive : http://foundry.supelec.fr/projects/contextrev/ wiki : http://contextgarden.net ___
