Re: Dedupe - Do you trust it?
The basic concepts of data deduplication is used in a lot of places, not the least of which are compression algorithms, data encryption, WAN optimization, etc. I think that the technology is mature, and that there's a lot of impetus to do it right, in general. Unless they're going to suggest that they don't trust ANY data in non-native format, they'll have to concede that they accept all sorts of data abstraction for other reasons on a regular basis. This one saves both time and disk space. You should speak to your favorite vendor in this space and get a pilot, so you can see/smell/feel it in action for yourself. *ASB *(Find me online via About.Me http://about.me/Andrew.S.Baker/bio) *Exploiting Technology for Business Advantage... * On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 6:30 AM, Paul Hutchings paul.hutchi...@mira.co.ukwrote: Just having a discussion with my boss and a colleague about backup strategy. They’re a little mistrusting of dedupe on the basis “It’s a database it can go wrong”, to which my retort was largely a combination of having to have faith in an established vendor, combined with “If a database gives you a value you assume it’s correct, you don’t think “what if the database has corrupted the value” because you have faith in the checks and balances that ensure the data is atomic”. So, what are you views on dedupe when it comes to backups? -- *MIRA Ltd* ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~ --- To manage subscriptions click here: http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
RE: Dedupe - Do you trust it?
Thanks Andrew, I am already trialling the d2d and dedupe with Commvault (our current product). Don't misunderstand me, I'm not suggesting I'm dealing with flat-earther's and they aren't suggesting don't' do it, I just found it a bit of an odd stance how they seemed inherantly distrusting of dedupe because it's a database whilst no-one questions the numbers in a financial system that is held in a database, or if they do, the assumption is the input or the formulae are wrong, nobody ever questions if the database has stuffed up and randomized a value etc. I'll happily admit myself that I'd still want to take traditional full's every so often rather than rely on a single full and then incremental forever, and I'd still be looking to spool the deduped backups to non-deduped tape. Paul From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com] Sent: 16 February 2011 12:07 To: NT System Admin Issues Cc: Paul Hutchings Subject: Re: Dedupe - Do you trust it? The basic concepts of data deduplication is used in a lot of places, not the least of which are compression algorithms, data encryption, WAN optimization, etc. I think that the technology is mature, and that there's a lot of impetus to do it right, in general. Unless they're going to suggest that they don't trust ANY data in non-native format, they'll have to concede that they accept all sorts of data abstraction for other reasons on a regular basis. This one saves both time and disk space. You should speak to your favorite vendor in this space and get a pilot, so you can see/smell/feel it in action for yourself. ASB (Find me online via About.Me http://about.me/Andrew.S.Baker/bio ) Exploiting Technology for Business Advantage... On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 6:30 AM, Paul Hutchings paul.hutchi...@mira.co.uk wrote: Just having a discussion with my boss and a colleague about backup strategy. They're a little mistrusting of dedupe on the basis It's a database it can go wrong, to which my retort was largely a combination of having to have faith in an established vendor, combined with If a database gives you a value you assume it's correct, you don't think what if the database has corrupted the value because you have faith in the checks and balances that ensure the data is atomic. So, what are you views on dedupe when it comes to backups? MIRA Ltd ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~ --- To manage subscriptions click here: http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin -- MIRA Ltd Watling Street, Nuneaton, Warwickshire, CV10 0TU, England Registered in England and Wales No. 402570 VAT Registration GB 100 1464 84 The contents of this e-mail are confidential and are solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you receive this e-mail in error, please delete it and notify us either by e-mail, telephone or fax. You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the content of the e-mail as this is prohibited. ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~ --- To manage subscriptions click here: http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
Re: Dedupe - Do you trust it?
On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 6:30 AM, Paul Hutchings paul.hutchi...@mira.co.uk wrote: They’re a little mistrusting of dedupe on the basis “It’s a database it can go wrong ... A filesystem is a database consisting of a hierarchical series of tables (directories), a table tracking extents, and a table tracking free blocks. -- Ben ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~ --- To manage subscriptions click here: http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
RE: Dedupe - Do you trust it?
I'm not an expert on this by any stretch of the imagination. I can only say that we've been using ExaGrid's de-duping solution for a couple of years now, and every time I've done a restore it has been fast and accurate. That's purely anecdotal, of course, but it's my experience for what it's worth. John Hornbuckle MIS Department Taylor County School District www.taylor.k12.fl.us On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 6:30 AM, Paul Hutchings paul.hutchi...@mira.co.uk wrote: Just having a discussion with my boss and a colleague about backup strategy. They're a little mistrusting of dedupe on the basis It's a database it can go wrong, to which my retort was largely a combination of having to have faith in an established vendor, combined with If a database gives you a value you assume it's correct, you don't think what if the database has corrupted the value because you have faith in the checks and balances that ensure the data is atomic. So, what are you views on dedupe when it comes to backups? MIRA Ltd NOTICE: Florida has a broad public records law. Most written communications to or from this entity are public records that will be disclosed to the public and the media upon request. E-mail communications may be subject to public disclosure. ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~ --- To manage subscriptions click here: http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
Re: Dedupe - Do you trust it?
IBM Tivoli Storage Manager has used the 'incrementals forever' model for many years, and in environments from mainframes on down - just not with dedupe, though that may now be a feature. The more I play with other solutions, the more I miss TSM. On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 04:44, Paul Hutchings paul.hutchi...@mira.co.uk wrote: Thanks Andrew, I am already trialling the d2d and dedupe with Commvault (our current product). Don’t misunderstand me, I’m not suggesting I’m dealing with flat-earther’s and they aren’t suggesting “don’t’ do it”, I just found it a bit of an odd stance how they seemed inherantly distrusting of dedupe “because it’s a database” whilst no-one questions the numbers in a financial system that is held in a database, or if they do, the assumption is the input or the formulae are wrong, nobody ever questions if the database has stuffed up and randomized a value etc. I’ll happily admit myself that I’d still want to take traditional full’s every so often rather than rely on a single full and then “incremental forever”, and I’d still be looking to spool the deduped backups to non-deduped tape. Paul From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com] Sent: 16 February 2011 12:07 To: NT System Admin Issues Cc: Paul Hutchings Subject: Re: Dedupe - Do you trust it? The basic concepts of data deduplication is used in a lot of places, not the least of which are compression algorithms, data encryption, WAN optimization, etc. I think that the technology is mature, and that there's a lot of impetus to do it right, in general. Unless they're going to suggest that they don't trust ANY data in non-native format, they'll have to concede that they accept all sorts of data abstraction for other reasons on a regular basis. This one saves both time and disk space. You should speak to your favorite vendor in this space and get a pilot, so you can see/smell/feel it in action for yourself. ASB (Find me online via About.Me) Exploiting Technology for Business Advantage... On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 6:30 AM, Paul Hutchings paul.hutchi...@mira.co.uk wrote: Just having a discussion with my boss and a colleague about backup strategy. They’re a little mistrusting of dedupe on the basis “It’s a database it can go wrong”, to which my retort was largely a combination of having to have faith in an established vendor, combined with “If a database gives you a value you assume it’s correct, you don’t think “what if the database has corrupted the value” because you have faith in the checks and balances that ensure the data is atomic”. So, what are you views on dedupe when it comes to backups? MIRA Ltd ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~ --- To manage subscriptions click here: http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin MIRA Ltd Watling Street, Nuneaton, Warwickshire, CV10 0TU, England Registered in England and Wales No. 402570 VAT Registration GB 100 1464 84 The contents of this e-mail are confidential and are solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you receive this e-mail in error, please delete it and notify us either by e-mail, telephone or fax. You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the content of the e-mail as this is prohibited. ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~ --- To manage subscriptions click here: http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~ --- To manage subscriptions click here: http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
Re: Dedupe - Do you trust it?
We migrated our main file server by backing it up, then restored it to a new machine using Backup Exec 2010 R2 with DeDuplication months ago. This allowed us to (1) perform a litmus test on our backup system and (2) have an back-out plan if it fails. Our email is on a database (Exchange), so are our payroll and billing systems (MS SQL 2005). That said, we duplicate our de-duped backups for offiste storage using tape ... in non-deduped / rehydrated format. DL Meade On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 8:33 AM, Kurt Buff kurt.b...@gmail.com wrote: IBM Tivoli Storage Manager has used the 'incrementals forever' model for many years, and in environments from mainframes on down - just not with dedupe, though that may now be a feature. The more I play with other solutions, the more I miss TSM. On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 04:44, Paul Hutchings paul.hutchi...@mira.co.uk wrote: Thanks Andrew, I am already trialling the d2d and dedupe with Commvault (our current product). Don’t misunderstand me, I’m not suggesting I’m dealing with flat-earther’s and they aren’t suggesting “don’t’ do it”, I just found it a bit of an odd stance how they seemed inherantly distrusting of dedupe “because it’s a database” whilst no-one questions the numbers in a financial system that is held in a database, or if they do, the assumption is the input or the formulae are wrong, nobody ever questions if the database has stuffed up and randomized a value etc. I’ll happily admit myself that I’d still want to take traditional full’s every so often rather than rely on a single full and then “incremental forever”, and I’d still be looking to spool the deduped backups to non-deduped tape. Paul From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com] Sent: 16 February 2011 12:07 To: NT System Admin Issues Cc: Paul Hutchings Subject: Re: Dedupe - Do you trust it? The basic concepts of data deduplication is used in a lot of places, not the least of which are compression algorithms, data encryption, WAN optimization, etc. I think that the technology is mature, and that there's a lot of impetus to do it right, in general. Unless they're going to suggest that they don't trust ANY data in non-native format, they'll have to concede that they accept all sorts of data abstraction for other reasons on a regular basis. This one saves both time and disk space. You should speak to your favorite vendor in this space and get a pilot, so you can see/smell/feel it in action for yourself. ASB (Find me online via About.Me) Exploiting Technology for Business Advantage... On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 6:30 AM, Paul Hutchings paul.hutchi...@mira.co.uk wrote: Just having a discussion with my boss and a colleague about backup strategy. They’re a little mistrusting of dedupe on the basis “It’s a database it can go wrong”, to which my retort was largely a combination of having to have faith in an established vendor, combined with “If a database gives you a value you assume it’s correct, you don’t think “what if the database has corrupted the value” because you have faith in the checks and balances that ensure the data is atomic”. So, what are you views on dedupe when it comes to backups? MIRA Ltd ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~ --- To manage subscriptions click here: http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin MIRA Ltd Watling Street, Nuneaton, Warwickshire, CV10 0TU, England Registered in England and Wales No. 402570 VAT Registration GB 100 1464 84 The contents of this e-mail are confidential and are solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you receive this e-mail in error, please delete it and notify us either by e-mail, telephone or fax. You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the content of the e-mail as this is prohibited. ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~ --- To manage subscriptions click here: http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~ --- To manage subscriptions click here: http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ or send an email to listmana...@lyris.sunbeltsoftware.com with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com
