Re: OT: ISPs to filter for copyrighted material?

2008-01-10 Thread Micheal Espinola Jr 
Unbelievably under the radar.  I have never been able to understand how they
get away with it.

If you pay for the right type of account, you can get any piece of software,
movie, music you want.   It's insane.

On Jan 10, 2008 9:49 AM, Christopher Boggs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Yep, but usenet has always been under the radar, it's the easy stuff
> that reaches the masses like bit torrent and other p2p apps that they
> are worried about.
>
> But I also agree, I'm sure they will try, and I'm sure they will fail.
> I'm also sure they are going to piss off a lot more customers.
>
> That's all I got :)
>
> cb
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Joseph L. Casale [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 8:18 AM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: RE: OT: ISPs to filter for copyrighted material?
>
> Agreed,
> Most usenet premium providers offer SSL now as an example.
>
> Futile!!
>
> jlc
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Durf [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 7:15 AM
> To: NT System Admin Issues
> Subject: Re: OT: ISPs to filter for copyrighted material?
>
> Nearly impossible to enforce.  There are a few different ways they
> could be doing this - title, file checksum, maybe even content
> sampling - and nearly all of them can be trivially defeated.  I find
> it really hard to envision how an ISP is going to identify, say, a
> torrent of a video that has the title as a random string, has been
> re-encoded, RAR-compressed, and when the torrent client is using
> protocol encryption.  They may take some steps such as trying to
> identify .torrent files originating from their own networks and so
> forth, but I can't see how it can be terribly effective.
>
> This is much more about the ISP's trying to ward off lawsuits from the
> content providers than it is about actual effective content filtering.
> They need to say they're doing *something* so they can wash their
> hands of the issue.
>
> -- Durf
>
> On Jan 10, 2008 9:00 AM, Rob Bonfiglio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I saw this and thought it was an interesting article.  There isn't
> really
> > any technical detail, but I thought some of you might find it
> interesting.
> > I'm not sure how I feel about the whole subject.  If it starts here
> how long
> > will it take to get out of control?  Currently ISP's do some
> filtering,
> > especially with consumer accounts (port 80 in to your home network
> etc.)  I
> > see some of that as a protection to their network though, especially
> when it
> > comes to e-mail.  I'm not sure if the same argument could be made for
> > filtering out MP3's, MPG's, etc.  I'd have to look more closely at the
> law I
> > suppose.
> >
> > Anyway, here is the article.  I'm curious to hear some of your
> responses:
> >
> http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/08/att-and-other-isps-may-be-getti
> ng-ready-to-filter/index.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> --
> Give a man a match, and he'll be warm for a minute.
> But set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
>
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>
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>
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>



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RE: OT: ISPs to filter for copyrighted material?

2008-01-10 Thread Christopher Boggs 
Yep, but usenet has always been under the radar, it's the easy stuff
that reaches the masses like bit torrent and other p2p apps that they
are worried about.

But I also agree, I'm sure they will try, and I'm sure they will fail.
I'm also sure they are going to piss off a lot more customers.

That's all I got :)

cb

-Original Message-
From: Joseph L. Casale [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 8:18 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: RE: OT: ISPs to filter for copyrighted material?

Agreed,
Most usenet premium providers offer SSL now as an example.

Futile!!

jlc

-Original Message-
From: Durf [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 7:15 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: OT: ISPs to filter for copyrighted material?

Nearly impossible to enforce.  There are a few different ways they
could be doing this - title, file checksum, maybe even content
sampling - and nearly all of them can be trivially defeated.  I find
it really hard to envision how an ISP is going to identify, say, a
torrent of a video that has the title as a random string, has been
re-encoded, RAR-compressed, and when the torrent client is using
protocol encryption.  They may take some steps such as trying to
identify .torrent files originating from their own networks and so
forth, but I can't see how it can be terribly effective.

This is much more about the ISP's trying to ward off lawsuits from the
content providers than it is about actual effective content filtering.
They need to say they're doing *something* so they can wash their
hands of the issue.

-- Durf

On Jan 10, 2008 9:00 AM, Rob Bonfiglio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> I saw this and thought it was an interesting article.  There isn't
really
> any technical detail, but I thought some of you might find it
interesting.
> I'm not sure how I feel about the whole subject.  If it starts here
how long
> will it take to get out of control?  Currently ISP's do some
filtering,
> especially with consumer accounts (port 80 in to your home network
etc.)  I
> see some of that as a protection to their network though, especially
when it
> comes to e-mail.  I'm not sure if the same argument could be made for
> filtering out MP3's, MPG's, etc.  I'd have to look more closely at the
law I
> suppose.
>
> Anyway, here is the article.  I'm curious to hear some of your
responses:
>
http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/08/att-and-other-isps-may-be-getti
ng-ready-to-filter/index.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



--
--
Give a man a match, and he'll be warm for a minute.
But set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

~ Upgrade to Next Generation Antispam/Antivirus with Ninja!~
~ <http://www.sunbelt-software.com/SunbeltMessagingNinja.cfm>  ~

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RE: OT: ISPs to filter for copyrighted material?

2008-01-10 Thread Joseph L. Casale 
Agreed,
Most usenet premium providers offer SSL now as an example.

Futile!!

jlc

-Original Message-
From: Durf [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 7:15 AM
To: NT System Admin Issues
Subject: Re: OT: ISPs to filter for copyrighted material?

Nearly impossible to enforce.  There are a few different ways they
could be doing this - title, file checksum, maybe even content
sampling - and nearly all of them can be trivially defeated.  I find
it really hard to envision how an ISP is going to identify, say, a
torrent of a video that has the title as a random string, has been
re-encoded, RAR-compressed, and when the torrent client is using
protocol encryption.  They may take some steps such as trying to
identify .torrent files originating from their own networks and so
forth, but I can't see how it can be terribly effective.

This is much more about the ISP's trying to ward off lawsuits from the
content providers than it is about actual effective content filtering.
They need to say they're doing *something* so they can wash their
hands of the issue.

-- Durf

On Jan 10, 2008 9:00 AM, Rob Bonfiglio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> I saw this and thought it was an interesting article.  There isn't really
> any technical detail, but I thought some of you might find it interesting.
> I'm not sure how I feel about the whole subject.  If it starts here how long
> will it take to get out of control?  Currently ISP's do some filtering,
> especially with consumer accounts (port 80 in to your home network etc.)  I
> see some of that as a protection to their network though, especially when it
> comes to e-mail.  I'm not sure if the same argument could be made for
> filtering out MP3's, MPG's, etc.  I'd have to look more closely at the law I
> suppose.
>
> Anyway, here is the article.  I'm curious to hear some of your responses:
> http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/08/att-and-other-isps-may-be-getting-ready-to-filter/index.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



--
--
Give a man a match, and he'll be warm for a minute.
But set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

~ Upgrade to Next Generation Antispam/Antivirus with Ninja!~
~ <http://www.sunbelt-software.com/SunbeltMessagingNinja.cfm>  ~

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~ <http://www.sunbelt-software.com/SunbeltMessagingNinja.cfm>  ~

Re: OT: ISPs to filter for copyrighted material?

2008-01-10 Thread Durf 
Nearly impossible to enforce.  There are a few different ways they
could be doing this - title, file checksum, maybe even content
sampling - and nearly all of them can be trivially defeated.  I find
it really hard to envision how an ISP is going to identify, say, a
torrent of a video that has the title as a random string, has been
re-encoded, RAR-compressed, and when the torrent client is using
protocol encryption.  They may take some steps such as trying to
identify .torrent files originating from their own networks and so
forth, but I can't see how it can be terribly effective.

This is much more about the ISP's trying to ward off lawsuits from the
content providers than it is about actual effective content filtering.
They need to say they're doing *something* so they can wash their
hands of the issue.

-- Durf

On Jan 10, 2008 9:00 AM, Rob Bonfiglio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> I saw this and thought it was an interesting article.  There isn't really
> any technical detail, but I thought some of you might find it interesting.
> I'm not sure how I feel about the whole subject.  If it starts here how long
> will it take to get out of control?  Currently ISP's do some filtering,
> especially with consumer accounts (port 80 in to your home network etc.)  I
> see some of that as a protection to their network though, especially when it
> comes to e-mail.  I'm not sure if the same argument could be made for
> filtering out MP3's, MPG's, etc.  I'd have to look more closely at the law I
> suppose.
>
> Anyway, here is the article.  I'm curious to hear some of your responses:
> http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/08/att-and-other-isps-may-be-getting-ready-to-filter/index.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



-- 
--
Give a man a match, and he'll be warm for a minute.
But set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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~   ~