Re: [Numpy-discussion] NumPy 1.14.0 release

[Matthew Brett]

Hi,

On Sun, Jan 14, 2018 at 3:35 AM, Eric Wieser
 wrote:
> Did recarrays change? I didn’t see anything in the release notes.
>
> Not directly, but structured arrays did, for which recarrays are really just
> a thin and somewhat buggy wrapper.

Oh dear oh dear - for some reason I had completely missed these
changes, and the justification for them.

They do exactly the kind of thing that Konrad Hinsen was complaining
about before, with justification, which is to change the behavior of
previous code, without an intervening (long) period of raising an
error.  In this case, the benefits of these changes seem small,
compared to the inevitable breakage and silently changed results they
will cause.

Is there any chance of reversing them?

Cheers,

Matthew
___
NumPy-Discussion mailing list
NumPy-Discussion@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/numpy-discussion

Re: [Numpy-discussion] NumPy 1.14.0 release

[Sebastian Berg]

On Sun, 2018-01-14 at 11:35 +, Matthew Brett wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On Sun, Jan 14, 2018 at 3:35 AM, Eric Wieser
>  wrote:
> > Did recarrays change? I didn’t see anything in the release notes.
> > 
> > Not directly, but structured arrays did, for which recarrays are
> > really just
> > a thin and somewhat buggy wrapper.
> 
> Oh dear oh dear - for some reason I had completely missed these
> changes, and the justification for them.
> 
> They do exactly the kind of thing that Konrad Hinsen was complaining
> about before, with justification, which is to change the behavior of
> previous code, without an intervening (long) period of raising an
> error.  In this case, the benefits of these changes seem small,
> compared to the inevitable breakage and silently changed results they
> will cause.
> 
> Is there any chance of reversing them?
> 

Without knowing the change, there is always a chance of (temporary)
reversal and for unexpected complications its probably the safest
default if there is no agreement anyway.

- Sebastian


> Cheers,
> 
> Matthew
> ___
> NumPy-Discussion mailing list
> NumPy-Discussion@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/numpy-discussion

signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part
___
NumPy-Discussion mailing list
NumPy-Discussion@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/numpy-discussion

Re: [Numpy-discussion] NumPy 1.14.0 release

[Charles R Harris]

On Sun, Jan 14, 2018 at 4:35 AM, Matthew Brett 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Sun, Jan 14, 2018 at 3:35 AM, Eric Wieser
>  wrote:
> > Did recarrays change? I didn’t see anything in the release notes.
> >
> > Not directly, but structured arrays did, for which recarrays are really
> just
> > a thin and somewhat buggy wrapper.
>
> Oh dear oh dear - for some reason I had completely missed these
> changes, and the justification for them.
>

See https://github.com/numpy/numpy/pull/6053. It actually goes back a
couple of years.


>
> They do exactly the kind of thing that Konrad Hinsen was complaining
> about before, with justification, which is to change the behavior of
> previous code, without an intervening (long) period of raising an
> error.  In this case, the benefits of these changes seem small,
> compared to the inevitable breakage and silently changed results they
> will cause.
>
> Is there any chance of reversing them?
>

Maybe, we'll see how things go.

Chuck
___
NumPy-Discussion mailing list
NumPy-Discussion@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/numpy-discussion

Re: [Numpy-discussion] NumPy 1.14.0 release

[Allan Haldane]

On 01/14/2018 11:30 AM, Charles R Harris wrote:



On Sun, Jan 14, 2018 at 4:35 AM, Matthew Brett > wrote:


Hi,

On Sun, Jan 14, 2018 at 3:35 AM, Eric Wieser
mailto:wieser.eric%2bnu...@gmail.com>>
wrote:
> Did recarrays change? I didn’t see anything in the release notes.
>
> Not directly, but structured arrays did, for which recarrays are really 
just
> a thin and somewhat buggy wrapper.

Oh dear oh dear - for some reason I had completely missed these
changes, and the justification for them.


See https://github.com/numpy/numpy/pull/6053. It actually goes back a 
couple of years.



They do exactly the kind of thing that Konrad Hinsen was complaining
about before, with justification, which is to change the behavior of
previous code, without an intervening (long) period of raising an
error.  In this case, the benefits of these changes seem small,
compared to the inevitable breakage and silently changed results they
will cause.

Is there any chance of reversing them?


Of course the goal was to make things backwards-compatible; If some part 
of the changes is breaking a lot of code we will revert, or find a way 
to stop breaking code.


It's not yet clear to me which exact changes are causing the problem. 
The statsmodel failures may be related to what we are working on in one 
of these different issues:

https://github.com/numpy/numpy/issues/10344
https://github.com/numpy/numpy/issues/10387
https://github.com/numpy/numpy/issues/10394

I will be checking the statsmodel unit tests as we fix things, to make 
sure they pass in the end.


Allan


___
NumPy-Discussion mailing list
NumPy-Discussion@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/numpy-discussion

Re: [Numpy-discussion] NumPy 1.14.0 release

[Charles R Harris]

On Sun, Jan 14, 2018 at 9:30 AM, Charles R Harris  wrote:

>
>
> On Sun, Jan 14, 2018 at 4:35 AM, Matthew Brett 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 14, 2018 at 3:35 AM, Eric Wieser
>>  wrote:
>> > Did recarrays change? I didn’t see anything in the release notes.
>> >
>> > Not directly, but structured arrays did, for which recarrays are really
>> just
>> > a thin and somewhat buggy wrapper.
>>
>> Oh dear oh dear - for some reason I had completely missed these
>> changes, and the justification for them.
>>
>
> See https://github.com/numpy/numpy/pull/6053. It actually goes back a
> couple of years.
>

And I wonder how many of these are related to
https://github.com/numpy/numpy/issues/10344, which came
about because there was previously an attempt to fix up malformed inputs.



Chuck
___
NumPy-Discussion mailing list
NumPy-Discussion@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/numpy-discussion