[nysbirds-l] looking for info on Golden Eagles
Good evening,my son and I would like to head into New York this Saturday to look for a Golden Eagle. Looking at the ebird reports I see that a few have been seen here and there north of Poughkeepsie. I was just wondering if there was a 'best" area to start our search. I realize that there are very few around but would really like to give it a show. Any info on tracking one of these guys down would really be greatly appreciated, Thanks so much,Mark & Jeremy Barriger -- NYSbirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/nysbirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NYSBirds-L 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/NYSB.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
[nysbirds-l] looking for info on Golden Eagles
Good evening,my son and I would like to head into New York this Saturday to look for a Golden Eagle. Looking at the ebird reports I see that a few have been seen here and there north of Poughkeepsie. I was just wondering if there was a 'best area to start our search. I realize that there are very few around but would really like to give it a show. Any info on tracking one of these guys down would really be greatly appreciated, Thanks so much,Mark Jeremy Barriger -- NYSbirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/nysbirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NYSBirds-L 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/NYSB.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
RE: [nysbirds-l] Bad behavior
Nobody is saying to go out and harass every bird EXCEPT owls. Yes, you can flush a Yellow-rump, a Junco, sparrows, and just about every bird in our guides. But saying that flushing these birds and birders/photographers chasing a Snowy Owl up and down a beach is the same is wrong. Reading a quote like " Is that really a huge deal if a Snowy Owl flies a few hundred yards down the beach? I really do not think so and I have no clue why so many people think that. These birds did just fly hundreds of miles south didn't they?" First of all when birders/photographers flush a Snowy Owl down the beach a few hundred yards they don't call it a day and they don't leave. Most of them walk the beach and again get to close and flush it again. I have seen this sort of behavior go on for hours and if you don't see an issue with this then shame on you. Snowy Owls don't fly hundreds of miles to go on a vacation and usually by the time they get this far south they're all beat up and lacking food, water, and rest. When you get a chance talk to someone who specializes in owl rehabilitation and they will tell you that a good deal of these Snowy Owls will never see the tundra again. I have seen at least 20 Snowy Owls and I have never seen one actively hunting. Why is that? Find a Snowy Owl, set up a chair or if you can sit in your car, and wait till dusk. Most of the time when I see Snowy Owls hunting its well after dusk. Thats why some people (including myself) do take issue with people flushing them during the day because most of the time they're just trying to rest. I think that birders cause significantly more disturbance than photographers do. Do we all really think that when 30 people are lined up (even at a reasonable distance) from a Snowy Owl that you are not "on its mind", that it is not extremely aware of your presents? Of course we are on his mind and nobody is arguing that BUT I have been to places with large groups of people watching Snowy Owls and if you stand back at a reasonable distance they never flush and I have seen plenty close they're eyes and rest. Just because the owl is aware of our presence doesn't mean that we are doing harm to the bird. Now even though the photographers move up slowly you'll see an alert owl who focuses in on them and eventually gets up and flies. I think that birders cause significantly more disturbance than photographers do. Well then in your 30 years of birding you must have missed a bunch because most photographers go to great lengths to get "the shot". Some have the patience to wait for good pictures but plenty need to cross that line to do whatever they have to in order to fill that memory card, get home, and upload all those photos. I have never seen a birder bring bait to bring an owl in closer. I have never seen a birder climb a tree and cut branches to get a better picture of that roosting owl. Most photographers will lie or stand still and quietly most of the time. Maybe when it comes to other bird species but they have little patience to wait for owls. Normally you'll see them pull up, hop out of the car, set up the camera, and just start walking right towards the resting owl. Rarely will they be standing back with the rest of the clear headed birders watching from a safe distance. The Breezy owls will have to deal with dogs, people and loads of 4x4's on the beach. They will do their best to stay away from the people and when they feel disturbed they will fly. That is about the best they can do. Your absolutely right on this one. Most Snowy Owls that fly south have plenty to deal with. Whether it's dog walkers, joggers, atv's, cars, and of course us birders/photographers. Thats why we need to make sure that we are doing our part to not add any extra stress to them. Mark Barriger Wallingford, CT From: hosesbroadb...@hotmail.com To: nysbirds-l@cornell.edu Subject: [nysbirds-l] Bad behavior Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 19:31:10 -0500 Here is my two cents based off of over 30 years of birding in this state. I find this entire discussion absurd and think that everyone has pretty much missed the real point. I have no clue why people get so up in arms about flushing owls. Let me preface this by saying that some of the people that I am about to criticize are people that I bird with frequently, people that I have known for over 20 years, people that have been to my home and my wedding. I find it all extremely contradictory and hypocritical . The same people that are finger pointing and bad mouthing and video taping and planning secret groups because a few people get too close to a bird, have no problem walking through the east pond and fulshing hundreds if not thousands of migratory shorebirds that are desparately trying to refuel for their huge migration south. Is is possible to walk the east pond without flushing loads of birds? Does any one care if they flus
RE: [nysbirds-l] Bad behavior
Nobody is saying to go out and harass every bird EXCEPT owls. Yes, you can flush a Yellow-rump, a Junco, sparrows, and just about every bird in our guides. But saying that flushing these birds and birders/photographers chasing a Snowy Owl up and down a beach is the same is wrong. Reading a quote like Is that really a huge deal if a Snowy Owl flies a few hundred yards down the beach? I really do not think so and I have no clue why so many people think that. These birds did just fly hundreds of miles south didn't they? First of all when birders/photographers flush a Snowy Owl down the beach a few hundred yards they don't call it a day and they don't leave. Most of them walk the beach and again get to close and flush it again. I have seen this sort of behavior go on for hours and if you don't see an issue with this then shame on you. Snowy Owls don't fly hundreds of miles to go on a vacation and usually by the time they get this far south they're all beat up and lacking food, water, and rest. When you get a chance talk to someone who specializes in owl rehabilitation and they will tell you that a good deal of these Snowy Owls will never see the tundra again. I have seen at least 20 Snowy Owls and I have never seen one actively hunting. Why is that? Find a Snowy Owl, set up a chair or if you can sit in your car, and wait till dusk. Most of the time when I see Snowy Owls hunting its well after dusk. Thats why some people (including myself) do take issue with people flushing them during the day because most of the time they're just trying to rest. I think that birders cause significantly more disturbance than photographers do. Do we all really think that when 30 people are lined up (even at a reasonable distance) from a Snowy Owl that you are not on its mind, that it is not extremely aware of your presents? Of course we are on his mind and nobody is arguing that BUT I have been to places with large groups of people watching Snowy Owls and if you stand back at a reasonable distance they never flush and I have seen plenty close they're eyes and rest. Just because the owl is aware of our presence doesn't mean that we are doing harm to the bird. Now even though the photographers move up slowly you'll see an alert owl who focuses in on them and eventually gets up and flies. I think that birders cause significantly more disturbance than photographers do. Well then in your 30 years of birding you must have missed a bunch because most photographers go to great lengths to get the shot. Some have the patience to wait for good pictures but plenty need to cross that line to do whatever they have to in order to fill that memory card, get home, and upload all those photos. I have never seen a birder bring bait to bring an owl in closer. I have never seen a birder climb a tree and cut branches to get a better picture of that roosting owl. Most photographers will lie or stand still and quietly most of the time. Maybe when it comes to other bird species but they have little patience to wait for owls. Normally you'll see them pull up, hop out of the car, set up the camera, and just start walking right towards the resting owl. Rarely will they be standing back with the rest of the clear headed birders watching from a safe distance. The Breezy owls will have to deal with dogs, people and loads of 4x4's on the beach. They will do their best to stay away from the people and when they feel disturbed they will fly. That is about the best they can do. Your absolutely right on this one. Most Snowy Owls that fly south have plenty to deal with. Whether it's dog walkers, joggers, atv's, cars, and of course us birders/photographers. Thats why we need to make sure that we are doing our part to not add any extra stress to them. Mark Barriger Wallingford, CT From: hosesbroadb...@hotmail.com To: nysbirds-l@cornell.edu Subject: [nysbirds-l] Bad behavior Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 19:31:10 -0500 Here is my two cents based off of over 30 years of birding in this state. I find this entire discussion absurd and think that everyone has pretty much missed the real point. I have no clue why people get so up in arms about flushing owls. Let me preface this by saying that some of the people that I am about to criticize are people that I bird with frequently, people that I have known for over 20 years, people that have been to my home and my wedding. I find it all extremely contradictory and hypocritical . The same people that are finger pointing and bad mouthing and video taping and planning secret groups because a few people get too close to a bird, have no problem walking through the east pond and fulshing hundreds if not thousands of migratory shorebirds that are desparately trying to refuel for their huge migration south. Is is possible to walk the east pond without flushing loads of birds? Does any one care if they flush a flock of peeps, dowitchers or yellow
RE: [nysbirds-l] ethics, photographers, knee-jerks, op-eds
The issue here is how to protect owls from being harassed by unethical and just plain pathetic photographers/birders. Not whether we should chase birds or whether we should report rare birds. So not sure why we got turned in that direction but maybe we can focus back on the main problem. I'm tired of hearing or reading someone saying "it's not fair that we get punished just because of a few bad apples". First of all it's not a few bad apples it's a bunch and the number is growing every year. It's 2012 and most people have a computer, smart phone, and a camera and at 10:30am an owl will be reported and by noon there's a mob of people coming and going and thats when you get your simple minded morons who show up to get an up close and personal shot or view of the owl. You can kick them off the list, you can report they're info on the list serve and you can confront them but the fact is we are not going to be able to defend these birds 24hrs a day and in fact I'm positive that we only observe a small amount of this nonsense. The "serious" birders know this because we have spent a great deal of time out in the field and have seen it first hand way to many times. I have a family, a full time job, and plenty of things to do and when I finally get time to bird watch and enjoy the owls I for one am sick and tired of it being ruined. If people insist on reporting them I liked the suggestion of listing what you saw but leave out the specifics. If you want to see that Snowy Owl at Jones Beach, that Barred Owl in Central Park, or that Long-eared Owl in Pelham Bay put in the foot work and look for it. First of all the Owls not always going to be right where it was last seen, you'll probably sharpen up your birding skills, and most importantly will cut down on some of the traffic and relieve some stress on the birds. By not reporting the owls doesn't mean keep it quiet but keep it off the net. Before birdingonthenet came along we still found owls and word always spread and it's not going to totally solve the problem but it would be a huge help. Besides half of the excitement is getting your hands dirty, freezing your butt off, and finally tracking one down. Thats what bird watching is all about:) Mark Barriger Wallingford, CT > Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 12:58:02 -0500 > From: james...@optonline.net > Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] ethics, photographers, knee-jerks, op-eds > To: NYSBIRDS-L@cornell.edu > > Fred speaks well, and, indeed, we need to gather all these thoughts, > and, if nothing else, state clearly and succinctly what the problem > is. To contribute to this, thinking there might be significant legal > aspects to consider, I've placed inquiry with NYSDEC, thinking them > the most likely authority on such subjects. I'll post further of > anything useful that comes from reply. > > > -- > > NYSbirds-L List Info: > http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME > http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES > http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm > > ARCHIVES: > 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/nysbirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html > 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NYSBirds-L > 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/NYSB.html > > Please submit your observations to eBird: > http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ > > -- -- NYSbirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/nysbirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NYSBirds-L 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/NYSB.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
RE: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it
This topic is going on in most States right now because of the number of Snowy Owls moving down. I think singling out the photographers is wrong but honestly at least three quarters of the time when I see a "birder" make a dumb controversial decision he/she usually has a camera present. Not even just with owls but with birds in general. Here is my one quick example. A few weeks back I visited a house in Madison, CT to see a Yellow-throated Warbler. Most birders stood back and to the side and waited for the Warbler to come in but we had to move our positions to see the feeders because two photographers showed up, walked 8-10 ft from the feeder, and set up right in front of us. (a) no consideration to the birders present, (b) no consideration to the tenants that lived there and (c) no consideration to the bird itself. All they cared about was getting that shot. I read a posting somewhere from a birder/photographer who was upset at what he witnessed while trying to photograph an Owl. I guess someone showed up and released a mouse so that they could get a few flight shots. This person wasn't mad because it might result in hurting the Owl itself BUT instead went on to talk about how this kind of action was causing the value in his flight shots to drop. Glad to see that his priorities were in order! Most birders that I know don't report Owls and it's been that way for years and I have to say that I'm more surprised when I see people reporting Owls because 90% of the time it turns into a mess. Whether it's photographers or birders the fact is owls atract and when that happens nothing good ever comes out of it. Over the past two weeks I have been watching Barred, Saw-whet, and a Snowy Owl here in Connecticut and all have remained in the same areas because nobody knows about them and nobody bothers them. My attitude is if your serious about photographing owls and your serious about observing them then spend more time out looking for them and less time checking online for other people sightings. Mark Barriger Wallingford, CT From: ll...@lloydspitalnikphotos.com To: NYSbirds-l@cornell.edu CC: nysbirds-l@cornell.edu Subject: RE: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 10:38:29 -0500 Hi all, I was going to stay out of this thread because it’s an impossible situation. I come from 3 directions. I’m a long time birder, a professional wildlife photographer and a listowner of Metro Birding Briefs. As a listowner I’ve always discouraged posting of specific owl locations. Letting people know there’s a Barred Owl in Central Park is fine but saying it’s at lamppost 7902 isn’t. Likewise, a Snowy Owl is being seen at Breezy Point, OK but telling people it’s in the third dune back, not as good. I personally believe that self-policing is the best solution. Just a week or so ago, I was at Jones Beach photographing the white Snowy Owl when somebody started approaching the owl in a quick herky jerky manner. Of course, the owl flew. I was the first to get to its new location and kind of set up a line where the owl wasn’t disturbed but close enough to take photos. The offending photographer arriver shortly after and started doing the same thing again. I told him he needed to stop and explained what he was doing was wrong. He listened, stayed a few more hours and never abused the bird again. There are ways of making your point without being confrontational that are effective. There are also ways of approaching an owl or any other bird without alarming it but it requires a lot of patience. I won’t go into the technique but I took over 4000 images of “Whitey” and the bird always seemed quite serene. I haven’t really post many images but if you’re on Facebook I’m sure you can find a few. Educating new birders and photographers is essential as well as self-policing. Just my 3 cents. All the best, Lloyd Lloyd Spitalnik Photography www.lloydspitalnikphotos.com From: bounce-39536371-10711...@list.cornell.edu [mailto:bounce-39536371-10711...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Sam Stuart Sent: Monday, February 06, 2012 10:19 AM To: david speiser Cc: NYS Birds Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it All, We are responsible for the sightings we make and the people we share those with. It is important to balance the need for documenting rare and irregular species vs. our desire to share these excellent sightings with others. This is especially true when dealing with sightings of territorial and sedentary species that are more susceptible to disturbances. These species should probably be documented on eBird (www.eBird.org) and the NY State Avian Records Committee (http://nybirds.org/NYSARC/nysarcform2.htm) rather than the list serve. Thanks, Sam Stuart On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 10:08 AM, david speiser wrote: I too agree with Cindy's summation. T
RE: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it
This topic is going on in most States right now because of the number of Snowy Owls moving down. I think singling out the photographers is wrong but honestly at least three quarters of the time when I see a birder make a dumb controversial decision he/she usually has a camera present. Not even just with owls but with birds in general. Here is my one quick example. A few weeks back I visited a house in Madison, CT to see a Yellow-throated Warbler. Most birders stood back and to the side and waited for the Warbler to come in but we had to move our positions to see the feeders because two photographers showed up, walked 8-10 ft from the feeder, and set up right in front of us. (a) no consideration to the birders present, (b) no consideration to the tenants that lived there and (c) no consideration to the bird itself. All they cared about was getting that shot. I read a posting somewhere from a birder/photographer who was upset at what he witnessed while trying to photograph an Owl. I guess someone showed up and released a mouse so that they could get a few flight shots. This person wasn't mad because it might result in hurting the Owl itself BUT instead went on to talk about how this kind of action was causing the value in his flight shots to drop. Glad to see that his priorities were in order! Most birders that I know don't report Owls and it's been that way for years and I have to say that I'm more surprised when I see people reporting Owls because 90% of the time it turns into a mess. Whether it's photographers or birders the fact is owls atract and when that happens nothing good ever comes out of it. Over the past two weeks I have been watching Barred, Saw-whet, and a Snowy Owl here in Connecticut and all have remained in the same areas because nobody knows about them and nobody bothers them. My attitude is if your serious about photographing owls and your serious about observing them then spend more time out looking for them and less time checking online for other people sightings. Mark Barriger Wallingford, CT From: ll...@lloydspitalnikphotos.com To: NYSbirds-l@cornell.edu CC: nysbirds-l@cornell.edu Subject: RE: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 10:38:29 -0500 Hi all, I was going to stay out of this thread because it’s an impossible situation. I come from 3 directions. I’m a long time birder, a professional wildlife photographer and a listowner of Metro Birding Briefs. As a listowner I’ve always discouraged posting of specific owl locations. Letting people know there’s a Barred Owl in Central Park is fine but saying it’s at lamppost 7902 isn’t. Likewise, a Snowy Owl is being seen at Breezy Point, OK but telling people it’s in the third dune back, not as good. I personally believe that self-policing is the best solution. Just a week or so ago, I was at Jones Beach photographing the white Snowy Owl when somebody started approaching the owl in a quick herky jerky manner. Of course, the owl flew. I was the first to get to its new location and kind of set up a line where the owl wasn’t disturbed but close enough to take photos. The offending photographer arriver shortly after and started doing the same thing again. I told him he needed to stop and explained what he was doing was wrong. He listened, stayed a few more hours and never abused the bird again. There are ways of making your point without being confrontational that are effective. There are also ways of approaching an owl or any other bird without alarming it but it requires a lot of patience. I won’t go into the technique but I took over 4000 images of “Whitey” and the bird always seemed quite serene. I haven’t really post many images but if you’re on Facebook I’m sure you can find a few. Educating new birders and photographers is essential as well as self-policing. Just my 3 cents. All the best, Lloyd Lloyd Spitalnik Photography www.lloydspitalnikphotos.com From: bounce-39536371-10711...@list.cornell.edu [mailto:bounce-39536371-10711...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Sam Stuart Sent: Monday, February 06, 2012 10:19 AM To: david speiser Cc: NYS Birds Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it All, We are responsible for the sightings we make and the people we share those with. It is important to balance the need for documenting rare and irregular species vs. our desire to share these excellent sightings with others. This is especially true when dealing with sightings of territorial and sedentary species that are more susceptible to disturbances. These species should probably be documented on eBird (www.eBird.org) and the NY State Avian Records Committee (http://nybirds.org/NYSARC/nysarcform2.htm) rather than the list serve. Thanks, Sam Stuart On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 10:08 AM, david speiser david_spei...@hotmail.com wrote: I too agree with Cindy's
RE: [nysbirds-l] ethics, photographers, knee-jerks, op-eds
The issue here is how to protect owls from being harassed by unethical and just plain pathetic photographers/birders. Not whether we should chase birds or whether we should report rare birds. So not sure why we got turned in that direction but maybe we can focus back on the main problem. I'm tired of hearing or reading someone saying it's not fair that we get punished just because of a few bad apples. First of all it's not a few bad apples it's a bunch and the number is growing every year. It's 2012 and most people have a computer, smart phone, and a camera and at 10:30am an owl will be reported and by noon there's a mob of people coming and going and thats when you get your simple minded morons who show up to get an up close and personal shot or view of the owl. You can kick them off the list, you can report they're info on the list serve and you can confront them but the fact is we are not going to be able to defend these birds 24hrs a day and in fact I'm positive that we only observe a small amount of this nonsense. The serious birders know this because we have spent a great deal of time out in the field and have seen it first hand way to many times. I have a family, a full time job, and plenty of things to do and when I finally get time to bird watch and enjoy the owls I for one am sick and tired of it being ruined. If people insist on reporting them I liked the suggestion of listing what you saw but leave out the specifics. If you want to see that Snowy Owl at Jones Beach, that Barred Owl in Central Park, or that Long-eared Owl in Pelham Bay put in the foot work and look for it. First of all the Owls not always going to be right where it was last seen, you'll probably sharpen up your birding skills, and most importantly will cut down on some of the traffic and relieve some stress on the birds. By not reporting the owls doesn't mean keep it quiet but keep it off the net. Before birdingonthenet came along we still found owls and word always spread and it's not going to totally solve the problem but it would be a huge help. Besides half of the excitement is getting your hands dirty, freezing your butt off, and finally tracking one down. Thats what bird watching is all about:) Mark Barriger Wallingford, CT Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 12:58:02 -0500 From: james...@optonline.net Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] ethics, photographers, knee-jerks, op-eds To: NYSBIRDS-L@cornell.edu Fred speaks well, and, indeed, we need to gather all these thoughts, and, if nothing else, state clearly and succinctly what the problem is. To contribute to this, thinking there might be significant legal aspects to consider, I've placed inquiry with NYSDEC, thinking them the most likely authority on such subjects. I'll post further of anything useful that comes from reply. -- NYSbirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/nysbirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NYSBirds-L 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/NYSB.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ -- -- NYSbirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/nysbirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NYSBirds-L 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/NYSB.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
