Re: [nysbirds-l] Crow Shoot scheduled in Greene County

[Tom Kerr]

No I do not.  Lets just say I didn't see them make an effort to pick them
up.  I didn't really want to hang around.
On Mar 18, 2014 12:56 PM, "Lynne Hertzog"  wrote:

> Hi Tom.
> Do you have any video of that event?
> Lynne
> On Mar 18, 2014 12:54 PM, "Tom Kerr"  wrote:
>
>> I witnessed a crow hunt in Monroe County. They didn't even pick them up,
>> it was just target practice.
>> On Mar 18, 2014 12:51 PM, "Anthony Collerton" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The "Blackbirds" mentioned would almost certainly have been Rooks
>>> (Corvus frugilegus) which were regularly eaten historically in Europe.
>>>  Usually young birds taken from nests before they fledged.  Adult crows
>>> probably aren't the tastiest of game birds, although I suppose technically
>>> edible.  I doubt many will make it to the table in this case though.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Mar 18, 2014, at 10:34 AM, Paul R Sweet  wrote:
>>>
>>>  Point of information, the 4 and 20 blackbirds would be Turdus merula
>>> not crows.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* bounce-113350129-11471...@list.cornell.edu [
>>> mailto:bounce-113350129-11471...@list.cornell.edu]
>>> *On Behalf Of *Rick & Linda Kedenburg
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 18, 2014 10:07 AM
>>> *To:* Larry Federman
>>> *Cc:* Jonathan Perez; Richard; Lynne Hertzog; Cesar Castillo;
>>> NYSBIRDS-L; Jim Osterlund
>>> *Subject:* Re: [nysbirds-l] Crow Shoot scheduled in Greene County
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear Larry and others,
>>>
>>> I wrote to the club yesterday and received the following answer. (See
>>> Below) Judging from the way it's worded I don't think they care what any of
>>> us think. It's preposterous that they are "gathering" the crows to eat.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Approaching our government representatives is a good way to go but
>>> perhaps some press coverage of this event my make them think twice. I don't
>>> know any journalists in that area that would take up the story. Anyone else
>>> have any contacts along these lines.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best Rick
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   *From: *  r...@hvc.rr.com
>>>
>>>   *Subject: **Re: Crow Shoot*
>>>
>>>   *Date: * March 17, 2014 10:56:54 PM EDT
>>>
>>>   *To: * rickkedenb...@optonline.net
>>>
>>> Rick,
>>>
>>>   Thank you for your input. Your opinion of our event is expected. We
>>> applaud your respect for nature and the crow. The crow is meaningful. We
>>> believe in utilizing the animal for all its worth. It sounds as if you do
>>> not realize that crow can and has been consumed for centuries. I'm sure as
>>> anecdotal evidence you would recall "4 and 20 blackbirds baked in a pie".
>>>
>>> You may gather and eat different things, however that does not
>>> negatively define us as sportsmen.
>>>
>>> RVW Gun Club
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mar 17, 2014, at 6:40 PM, Rick Kedenburg 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear RVW Club.
>>>
>>> As a youth I was a duck and deer hunter on eastern LI.  I know you have
>>> every right to conduct this shoot. It is perfectly legal for this to happen
>>> under the rules of the NYS-DEC.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> However I am still outraged by this. Crows are one of the most
>>> intelligent creatures we share the Earth with. They have been documented to
>>> fashion and use tools. They are highly social and live in family groups. My
>>> fascination with them led me to love and appreciate nature long ago.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I hope you can understand that this will not be good for the reputation
>>> of your club or for any responsible hunters.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Rick Kedenburg
>>>
>>> rickkedenb...@optonline.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mar 18, 2014, at 9:26 AM, Larry Federman wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   Yes, this is a State issue.  Our State Senator is Cecilia Tkaczyk and
>>> our Assembly member is Pete Lopez.  Our US congressman is Chris Gibson.  I
>>> will be reaching out to all of their offices.
>>>
>>>
>

Re: [nysbirds-l] Crow Shoot scheduled in Greene County

[Tom Kerr]

I witnessed a crow hunt in Monroe County. They didn't even pick them up, it
was just target practice.
On Mar 18, 2014 12:51 PM, "Anthony Collerton"  wrote:

> The "Blackbirds" mentioned would almost certainly have been Rooks (Corvus
> frugilegus) which were regularly eaten historically in Europe.  Usually
> young birds taken from nests before they fledged.  Adult crows probably
> aren't the tastiest of game birds, although I suppose technically edible.
>  I doubt many will make it to the table in this case though.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 18, 2014, at 10:34 AM, Paul R Sweet  wrote:
>
>  Point of information, the 4 and 20 blackbirds would be Turdus merula not
> crows.
>
>
>
> *From:* bounce-113350129-11471...@list.cornell.edu [
> mailto:bounce-113350129-11471...@list.cornell.edu]
> *On Behalf Of *Rick & Linda Kedenburg
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 18, 2014 10:07 AM
> *To:* Larry Federman
> *Cc:* Jonathan Perez; Richard; Lynne Hertzog; Cesar Castillo; NYSBIRDS-L;
> Jim Osterlund
> *Subject:* Re: [nysbirds-l] Crow Shoot scheduled in Greene County
>
>
>
> Dear Larry and others,
>
> I wrote to the club yesterday and received the following answer. (See
> Below) Judging from the way it's worded I don't think they care what any of
> us think. It's preposterous that they are "gathering" the crows to eat.
>
>
>
> Approaching our government representatives is a good way to go but perhaps
> some press coverage of this event my make them think twice. I don't know
> any journalists in that area that would take up the story. Anyone else have
> any contacts along these lines.
>
>
>
> Best Rick
>
>
>
>   *From: *  r...@hvc.rr.com
>
>   *Subject: **Re: Crow Shoot*
>
>   *Date: * March 17, 2014 10:56:54 PM EDT
>
>   *To: * rickkedenb...@optonline.net
>
> Rick,
>
>   Thank you for your input. Your opinion of our event is expected. We
> applaud your respect for nature and the crow. The crow is meaningful. We
> believe in utilizing the animal for all its worth. It sounds as if you do
> not realize that crow can and has been consumed for centuries. I'm sure as
> anecdotal evidence you would recall "4 and 20 blackbirds baked in a pie".
>
> You may gather and eat different things, however that does not negatively
> define us as sportsmen.
>
> RVW Gun Club
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On Mar 17, 2014, at 6:40 PM, Rick Kedenburg 
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Dear RVW Club.
>
> As a youth I was a duck and deer hunter on eastern LI.  I know you have
> every right to conduct this shoot. It is perfectly legal for this to happen
> under the rules of the NYS-DEC.
>
>
>
> However I am still outraged by this. Crows are one of the most intelligent
> creatures we share the Earth with. They have been documented to fashion and
> use tools. They are highly social and live in family groups. My fascination
> with them led me to love and appreciate nature long ago.
>
>
>
> I hope you can understand that this will not be good for the reputation of
> your club or for any responsible hunters.
>
>
>
> Rick Kedenburg
>
> rickkedenb...@optonline.net
>
>
>
> On Mar 18, 2014, at 9:26 AM, Larry Federman wrote:
>
>
>
>   Yes, this is a State issue.  Our State Senator is Cecilia Tkaczyk and
> our Assembly member is Pete Lopez.  Our US congressman is Chris Gibson.  I
> will be reaching out to all of their offices.
>
>
>
> But, as we all know, 'legally' the club has a right to do this.
>
>
>
> And  their Facebook page is still up -
> https://www.facebook.com/events/258725434301388/
>
>
>
> Larry Federman
> President, Northern Catskills Audubon
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [nysbirds-l] Crow Shoot scheduled in Greene County

[Tom Kerr]

I witnessed a crow hunt in Monroe County. They didn't even pick them up, it
was just target practice.
On Mar 18, 2014 12:51 PM, Anthony Collerton icoller...@gmail.com wrote:

 The Blackbirds mentioned would almost certainly have been Rooks (Corvus
 frugilegus) which were regularly eaten historically in Europe.  Usually
 young birds taken from nests before they fledged.  Adult crows probably
 aren't the tastiest of game birds, although I suppose technically edible.
  I doubt many will make it to the table in this case though.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Mar 18, 2014, at 10:34 AM, Paul R Sweet sw...@amnh.org wrote:

  Point of information, the 4 and 20 blackbirds would be Turdus merula not
 crows.



 *From:* bounce-113350129-11471...@list.cornell.edu [
 mailto:bounce-113350129-11471...@list.cornell.edubounce-113350129-11471...@list.cornell.edu]
 *On Behalf Of *Rick  Linda Kedenburg
 *Sent:* Tuesday, March 18, 2014 10:07 AM
 *To:* Larry Federman
 *Cc:* Jonathan Perez; Richard; Lynne Hertzog; Cesar Castillo; NYSBIRDS-L;
 Jim Osterlund
 *Subject:* Re: [nysbirds-l] Crow Shoot scheduled in Greene County



 Dear Larry and others,

 I wrote to the club yesterday and received the following answer. (See
 Below) Judging from the way it's worded I don't think they care what any of
 us think. It's preposterous that they are gathering the crows to eat.



 Approaching our government representatives is a good way to go but perhaps
 some press coverage of this event my make them think twice. I don't know
 any journalists in that area that would take up the story. Anyone else have
 any contacts along these lines.



 Best Rick



   *From: *  r...@hvc.rr.com

   *Subject: **Re: Crow Shoot*

   *Date: * March 17, 2014 10:56:54 PM EDT

   *To: * rickkedenb...@optonline.net

 Rick,

   Thank you for your input. Your opinion of our event is expected. We
 applaud your respect for nature and the crow. The crow is meaningful. We
 believe in utilizing the animal for all its worth. It sounds as if you do
 not realize that crow can and has been consumed for centuries. I'm sure as
 anecdotal evidence you would recall 4 and 20 blackbirds baked in a pie.

 You may gather and eat different things, however that does not negatively
 define us as sportsmen.

 RVW Gun Club

 Sent from my iPhone



 On Mar 17, 2014, at 6:40 PM, Rick Kedenburg rickkedenb...@optonline.net
 wrote:



 Dear RVW Club.

 As a youth I was a duck and deer hunter on eastern LI.  I know you have
 every right to conduct this shoot. It is perfectly legal for this to happen
 under the rules of the NYS-DEC.



 However I am still outraged by this. Crows are one of the most intelligent
 creatures we share the Earth with. They have been documented to fashion and
 use tools. They are highly social and live in family groups. My fascination
 with them led me to love and appreciate nature long ago.



 I hope you can understand that this will not be good for the reputation of
 your club or for any responsible hunters.



 Rick Kedenburg

 rickkedenb...@optonline.net



 On Mar 18, 2014, at 9:26 AM, Larry Federman wrote:



   Yes, this is a State issue.  Our State Senator is Cecilia Tkaczyk and
 our Assembly member is Pete Lopez.  Our US congressman is Chris Gibson.  I
 will be reaching out to all of their offices.



 But, as we all know, 'legally' the club has a right to do this.



 And  their Facebook page is still up -
 https://www.facebook.com/events/258725434301388/



 Larry Federman
 President, Northern Catskills Audubon





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Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

[Tom Kerr]

Hi Everyone,

Just to add my 2 cents on Owls.

I was taught owls are not to be posted.  I found a Saw-whet Owl once and
returned with friends the next day.  There were dozens of pellets at the
base of the tree.  This owl had been there for weeks.  I never saw it
again.  4 people were enough to chase it off in the dead of winter for
good, and I learned my lesson.  The only owl I have reported seeing to an
RBA was a Snowy Owl on an inaccessible island visible from shore, hundreds
of yards out.  If I ask a birder I have just met about owls and they don't
want to tell me where they are, that is just fine.  I have asked and been
told "no, its a secret."  I have more respect for a birder that thinks
about the bird's well-being first than one who wants to brag and show it
off like a trophy.  If you post the location of a roosting owl, or any bird
for that matter, you have to share some responsibility for what happens to
it, good or bad.  If you know photographers are going to chase after it, or
people are going to play calls at it all day long, you should probably take
the bird's best interests into account and keep it to yourself.  Use common
sense.  If this means new birders don't get to see it, then that's the way
it has to be.  I don't see anything wrong with having to earn your way into
the birding community.

On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 5:26 PM, Will Raup  wrote:

>
> Photographers are clearly muggles, but the birding community has its share
> of deatheaters.
>
>
> Will Raup
> Albany, NY
>
>
> --
> Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't
> get it
> From: jacobdruc...@msn.com
> Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 16:53:32 -0500
> CC: gregoryfis...@sprintmail.com; peterbilt.bir...@yahoo.com;
> nysbirds-l@cornell.edu
> To: fpimen...@verizon.net
>
>
> When will Harry Potter fans get involved in this discussion?
>
> Jacob
>
> On Feb 6, 2012, at 4:45 PM, Felipe Pimentel wrote:
>
> Dan,
>
> The problem with your suggestion is the potential danger of creating a
> kind of "birding war" that would not help to solve any problem but may
> create new ones, including potentially violent encounters in the field that
> we must avoid. More productive could be the development of some flexible
> guidelines by some local groups (like the Audubon society) about what
> birders or bird photographers should do and not do in the field. Codes of
> ethics are by definition general moral principles. In my humble opinion the
> best policy is self-restraint and a good sense of personal responsibility.
>
>  There are issues that will never be solved. For example, the issue of
> "disturbing" birds or approaching birds. Maybe for a particular birder
> being too close to a bird means 50 feet away while for others may be only
> 30. Massive birding by definition is a potential disturbance for many
> birds. When you have 60 bird watchers congregated on the same spot that
> could create be more disturbance than a single photographer taking pictures
> of the same bird even at a closer distance.
>
>  What I am trying to say is that things cannot be one-dimensional and
> that practical common sense cannot be like the Ten Commandments (for those
> who are believers), written in stone.
>
> FP
>
>
> On Feb 6, 2012, at 3:39 PM, Gregory Fisher wrote:
>
>
> Hey Dan,
>
>  I am fine with that as long as you at least try to educate the
> individuals exhibiting the poor behavior.  Some people are just ignorant
> and just need a little guidance.  Yesterday's example by Adam is a prime
> example.  You approach them, try to considerately educate them.  When they
> resist and blow you off then communicate to others.  Everyone deserves a
> fair shake.
>
> Greg
>
> -Original Message-
>
> From: Dan 
>
> Sent: Feb 6, 2012 3:35 PM
>
> To: Gregory Fisher 
>
> Cc: "" , NY BIRDS Cornell
> 
>
> Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't
> get it
>
>
> Let's all take photos of photographers that misbehave. Be SURE to post
> them to the appropriate listserve. If you see that photographer enter their
> vehicle, try to photograph the make and model and the license plate number
> too :)
>
>
> Good birding!
>
>
> Dan Furbish
>
> peterbilt.bir...@yahoo.com
>
>
>
> --
>
> NYSbirds-L List Info:
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> 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/NYSB.html
>
> Please submit your observations to eBird:
> http://ebird.org/content/ebird/
>
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>
>
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> Welcome and Basics 
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> 

Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't get it

[Tom Kerr]

Hi Everyone,

Just to add my 2 cents on Owls.

I was taught owls are not to be posted.  I found a Saw-whet Owl once and
returned with friends the next day.  There were dozens of pellets at the
base of the tree.  This owl had been there for weeks.  I never saw it
again.  4 people were enough to chase it off in the dead of winter for
good, and I learned my lesson.  The only owl I have reported seeing to an
RBA was a Snowy Owl on an inaccessible island visible from shore, hundreds
of yards out.  If I ask a birder I have just met about owls and they don't
want to tell me where they are, that is just fine.  I have asked and been
told no, its a secret.  I have more respect for a birder that thinks
about the bird's well-being first than one who wants to brag and show it
off like a trophy.  If you post the location of a roosting owl, or any bird
for that matter, you have to share some responsibility for what happens to
it, good or bad.  If you know photographers are going to chase after it, or
people are going to play calls at it all day long, you should probably take
the bird's best interests into account and keep it to yourself.  Use common
sense.  If this means new birders don't get to see it, then that's the way
it has to be.  I don't see anything wrong with having to earn your way into
the birding community.

On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 5:26 PM, Will Raup hoaryredp...@hotmail.com wrote:


 Photographers are clearly muggles, but the birding community has its share
 of deatheaters.


 Will Raup
 Albany, NY


 --
 Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't
 get it
 From: jacobdruc...@msn.com
 Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 16:53:32 -0500
 CC: gregoryfis...@sprintmail.com; peterbilt.bir...@yahoo.com;
 nysbirds-l@cornell.edu
 To: fpimen...@verizon.net


 When will Harry Potter fans get involved in this discussion?

 Jacob

 On Feb 6, 2012, at 4:45 PM, Felipe Pimentel wrote:

 Dan,

 The problem with your suggestion is the potential danger of creating a
 kind of birding war that would not help to solve any problem but may
 create new ones, including potentially violent encounters in the field that
 we must avoid. More productive could be the development of some flexible
 guidelines by some local groups (like the Audubon society) about what
 birders or bird photographers should do and not do in the field. Codes of
 ethics are by definition general moral principles. In my humble opinion the
 best policy is self-restraint and a good sense of personal responsibility.

  There are issues that will never be solved. For example, the issue of
 disturbing birds or approaching birds. Maybe for a particular birder
 being too close to a bird means 50 feet away while for others may be only
 30. Massive birding by definition is a potential disturbance for many
 birds. When you have 60 bird watchers congregated on the same spot that
 could create be more disturbance than a single photographer taking pictures
 of the same bird even at a closer distance.

  What I am trying to say is that things cannot be one-dimensional and
 that practical common sense cannot be like the Ten Commandments (for those
 who are believers), written in stone.

 FP


 On Feb 6, 2012, at 3:39 PM, Gregory Fisher wrote:


 Hey Dan,

  I am fine with that as long as you at least try to educate the
 individuals exhibiting the poor behavior.  Some people are just ignorant
 and just need a little guidance.  Yesterday's example by Adam is a prime
 example.  You approach them, try to considerately educate them.  When they
 resist and blow you off then communicate to others.  Everyone deserves a
 fair shake.

 Greg

 -Original Message-

 From: Dan peterbilt.bir...@yahoo.com

 Sent: Feb 6, 2012 3:35 PM

 To: Gregory Fisher gregoryfis...@sprintmail.com

 Cc: nysbirds-l@cornell.edu nysbirds-l@cornell.edu, NY BIRDS Cornell
 NYSBirds-l@Cornell.edu

 Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Knee jerk reaction to 2 guys that just didn't
 get it


 Let's all take photos of photographers that misbehave. Be SURE to post
 them to the appropriate listserve. If you see that photographer enter their
 vehicle, try to photograph the make and model and the license plate number
 too :)


 Good birding!


 Dan Furbish

 peterbilt.bir...@yahoo.com



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Re: [nysbirds-l] Prothonotary Warbler-my experience

[Tom Kerr]

If the birders and phorographers stop feeding the bird, it will continue to
pick up the scraps of food left by everyone else.

That being said, I think it would be much worse and completely irresponsible
to interfere with this bird by actually catching it and trying to
"rehabilitate" it.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but nobody picked up a dead
Scott's Oriole in Union Square Park.  Leave this warbler alone, and enjoy it
for what it is.  It does not need to be fixed.

On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 5:30 PM, Arie Gilbert wrote:

> It is my understanding that this bird has been fed by the "residents" for
> some time now, with no apparent ill effects.
>
> I was not aware that warblers ate bread at all. Obviously the bird is being
> effectively opportunistic.
>
> could anyone with much more knowledge on the topic,  comment on the
> relative unusualness of a warbler doing so?
> { eating bread}
>
> Arie Gilbert
> No. Babylon, NY
>
>
>
>
>
> On 10/25/2010 5:14 PM, Phil Jeffrey wrote:
>
>>  Everyone is *not* doing it, and in instances like this I think it
>> could be helpful to figure out who the photographer is.
>>
>> Phil Jeffrey
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 4:32 PM, drilbu  wrote:
>>
>>> I just returned from viewing the Warbler at the NYPL.
>>> I was very annoyed to witness a photographer feeding the bird pieces of
>>> bread to tease it out from behind the bushes.  When I confronted the
>>> photographer, he said to me, everyone is doing it.
>>>
>>> Whether everyone was doing it or not, it is wrong and in no way justifies
>>> his action.
>>> I think as people who love and respect wildlife we should speak out when
>>> we
>>> see endangering migratory
>>> birds by feeding them.
>>>
>>> Shari Zirlin
>>>
>> --
>>
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>>
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Re: [nysbirds-l] Prothonotary Warbler-my experience

[Tom Kerr]

If the birders and phorographers stop feeding the bird, it will continue to
pick up the scraps of food left by everyone else.

That being said, I think it would be much worse and completely irresponsible
to interfere with this bird by actually catching it and trying to
rehabilitate it.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but nobody picked up a dead
Scott's Oriole in Union Square Park.  Leave this warbler alone, and enjoy it
for what it is.  It does not need to be fixed.

On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 5:30 PM, Arie Gilbert ariegilb...@optonline.netwrote:

 It is my understanding that this bird has been fed by the residents for
 some time now, with no apparent ill effects.

 I was not aware that warblers ate bread at all. Obviously the bird is being
 effectively opportunistic.

 could anyone with much more knowledge on the topic,  comment on the
 relative unusualness of a warbler doing so?
 { eating bread}

 Arie Gilbert
 No. Babylon, NY





 On 10/25/2010 5:14 PM, Phil Jeffrey wrote:

  Everyone is *not* doing it, and in instances like this I think it
 could be helpful to figure out who the photographer is.

 Phil Jeffrey

 On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 4:32 PM, drilbudri...@yahoo.com  wrote:

 I just returned from viewing the Warbler at the NYPL.
 I was very annoyed to witness a photographer feeding the bird pieces of
 bread to tease it out from behind the bushes.  When I confronted the
 photographer, he said to me, everyone is doing it.

 Whether everyone was doing it or not, it is wrong and in no way justifies
 his action.
 I think as people who love and respect wildlife we should speak out when
 we
 see endangering migratory
 birds by feeding them.

 Shari Zirlin

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