Re: [obsnw] Unauthorized photographer Corner Wesley and station road

2016-07-20 Thread Trevor Hughes 
On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 3:34 PM, Stan  wrote:
>
> Spot on!!!

Out damn spot, Out!

>
> From: obsnw@googlegroups.com [mailto:obsnw@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
> stephen van der spuy
> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2016 2:40 PM
> To: obsnw@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [obsnw] Digest for obsnw@googlegroups.com - 2 updates in 2 topics
>
> There is nothing to indicate that anyone in Obs is photographed simply 
> because he/she is black.   People get photographed when there is suspicion 
> about them.   The colour of the photographer and the colour of the person 
> being photographed has got absolutely nothing to do with it.
>

Yes there is and yes it has. The guy in question is stating that quite
clearly. Clearly being black was suspicious enough for the
photographer in question. Would be interesting to see some of his
other photographs. I wonder how many white suspicious white ous he
took photos of?

> People need to be photographed when there is suspicion about them.  Their 
> colour should be of no consideration whatsoever.  If we are going to be 
> over-sensitive on this issue , then we might as well scrap the Obs 
> Neighbourhood Watch.  Criminals are not sensitive, so why should the 
> neighbourhood watch be ?  Persons being photographed should accept this sort 
> of thing, and not be overly sensitive themselves if they have nothing to 
> hide.   It's for the good of everyone that people are photographed.

Nonsense! The old if you have nothing to hide then you should not mind
defence is plain bollocks? Should we accept
black/white/indian/coloured/asian strangers taking pictures of the
kids and nannies in the kiddies park. The kids and nannies have
nothing to hide and its for the good of everyone that they are being
photographed. Suspicion is most often in the eye of the beholder.

Colour matters. You may like to think it does not but it most certainly does.

Trev

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Re: [obsnw] Digest for obsnw@googlegroups.com - 2 updates in 2 topics

2016-07-20 Thread stephen van der spuy 
People need to be photographed when there is suspicion about them.  Their
colour should be of no consideration whatsoever.  If we are going to be
over-sensitive on this issue , then we might as well scrap the Obs
Neighbourhood Watch.  Criminals are not sensitive, so why should the
neighbourhood watch be ?  Persons being photographed should accept this
sort of thing, and not be overly sensitive themselves if they have nothing
to hide.   It's for the good of everyone that people are photographed.

On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 9:26 AM,  wrote:

> obsnw@googlegroups.com
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>- Digest for ob...@googlegroups.com - 6 updates in 1 topic
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> Digest for ob...@googlegroups.com - 6 updates in 1 topic
> 
> Obs NW Chairman : Jul 18 10:02PM +0200
>
> Hi Willow, Jodi and Gazarow,
>
> Thanks you for your comments on this issue.
>
> I am disturbed that you are under the impression that ONW members view
> people as are suspicious simply because they are black. (And I remind
> everyone that we don't know that the two incidents mentioned here were ONW
> members, but for the sake of debate lets consider that they might have
> been)
>
> I offered an explanation to Itumeleng as to why he possibly may have been
> considered suspicious in light of recent crimes in Obs and the suspect
> profiles that SAPS has shared with us. I offered this explanation because I
> believe that he, like most Obs residents, is progressive enough to see this
> incident for what it is - a mistake. And hopefully also to realize that the
> ONW is once again active and that we are trying to act in the best
> interests of our entire community.
>
> There are no firm guidelines as to what constitutes a suspicious person or
> not. Sometimes its because they fit a particular profile but more often its
> because they have a nervous or aggressive air about them. It is subjective
> and mistakes are bound to be made.
>
> I would rather risk offending someone by reporting them and found to be
> mistaken, than to walk away for fear of being branded a racist only to find
> that that same person commits a crime a few minutes later. Although, having
> said that, over the last few days these exchanges have led me to hesitate
> in reporting persons I normally would have. I think it is detrimental to
> what we are trying to do as a neighborhood watch if this impression
> persists and if our members (or community at large) become afraid to report
> out of fear of causing offence. It is a sensitive subject, especially at
> the moment, and I think it is important that we discuss it publicly for
> three main reasons:
> to remind ONW members to be sensitive in their behaviour (and legal
> limitations);
> to inform the community of what the neighborhood watch is about (thier
> legal limitations) and how we are trying to make a difference in the
> community and;
> so we can use this as an opportunity to bring the community closer together
> rather than the opposite.
>
> I would like to invite you (an anyone in the community) to join us at one
> of our monthly meetings so that you can see how we operate and meet the
> people involved. I would also appreciate your input on how we can deal with
> this issue in a constructive and sensitive way. Our next meeting is on 27
> July at the Obs Community Centre at 6pm and I would like to make this
> subject the focus of the meeting. I hope that you will be able to make it
> and if not perhaps we can hold the discussion over for a future meeting?
>
> Thanks and regards,
>
> Steve
>
>
>
>
> Back to top <#m_2191741723566252972_digest_top>
> SAPS and Lower Obs
> 
> Andrew Ziffo : Jul 18 05:57PM +0200
>
> Hello,
>
> Thanks very much to Carolyn, Hudson, Jason, Wayne, Paul and Steve for
> following up personally and appropriately regarding the issues I raised on
> Friday. Having met Wayne now my opinion is that he is going to have a
> strong positive impact as the new night manager.
>
> Gwen and Pierre are active as the organizers of the Lower Obs patrols, and
> away until mid-August. So I'd like to suggest that a Lower Obs ONW/Obsid
> meeting is held sometime thereafter.
>
> Best wishes,
> Andrew
>
> Back to top <#m_2191741723566252972_digest_top>
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Re: [obsnw] Digest for obsnw@googlegroups.com - 1 update in 1 topic

2016-07-20 Thread stephen van der spuy 
There is nothing to indicate that anyone in Obs is photographed simply
because he/she is black.   People get photographed when there is suspicion
about them.   The colour of the photographer and the colour of the person
being photographed has got absolutely nothing to do with it.

On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 9:38 AM,  wrote:

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> willow : Jul 16 11:30AM -0700
>
> Hi Stephen. It seems I think that you have misunderstood the key issue
> here. I dont really see that anyone takes exception to the colour of the
> photographer, all though of course in the instances mentioned they are
> caucasian, but even if they were not, the issue is about the colour of the
> person being photographed and it would appear that black people in Obs are
> being photographed simply because they ARE black.
>
>
> On Saturday, 16 July 2016 09:37:55 UTC+2, stephen van der spuy wrote:
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