Re: [OSGeo Oceania] [Oceania-Board] Geospatial Council of Australia - thoughts?
Specifically with awards, I agree with Adam and John. The ones I have seen in my career are usually one of the following: 1. Meaningful awards, but gravitating towards certain types of work at the exclusion of all else. Also the risk that they go to people who are better at tooting their own horn. 2. A small group of people patting each other on the back. Not inherently bad, but not very inclusive. A similar dynamic to many keynote speaker circles. 3. Pay to play. Industry awards that are borderline pay to play and absolutely meaningless. I'd fully support showcasing the work people are doing in newsletters and at conferences. A grassroots effort to nominate people would help here. On Wed, 5 Apr 2023, 21:44 Emma Hain, wrote: > Hey All > Thanks for this. I get your sentiment John - I don't want to have that > 'in-group relationships'. However I just want to uplift and showcase the > great things people are doing. > Does it happen anywhere else is FOSS4G? > > On Fri, Mar 31, 2023 at 10:12 AM Adam Steer > wrote: > >> Hi John >> >> You've expressed my thoughts really well re. awards. >> >> Martin, I have many thoughts on volunteered/acquired/stolen geodata, for >> another chat. (Maybe we should get a microgrant and run a forum on the >> topic, if we run it in beechworth that'd be ace!) >> >> Alex, thanks for your action reaching out to Paul that's great!! Sooner >> the better - a public draft is a strong statement in itself ;). >> >> Cheers, >> >> Adam >> >> On Thu, Mar 30, 2023, 15:16 John Bryant wrote: >> >>> Adam wrote: >>>> >>>> Awards - personally not my thing and (IMO) about the last thing a >>>> community org should focus on. I've just returned from a couple of >>>> years in Norway dealing with a community that is strongly cult of >>>> personality (rockstar/award/??) based, and it sucks. Where was the >>>> community discussion about awards in OSGeo Oceania? >>>> >>> >>> I feel similarly. I think it's nice to recognise people's successes and >>> wins, but industry body awards feel like an echo chamber to me, reinforcing >>> in-group relationships. I've always admired OSGeo for its focus on reaching >>> the broader community, creating an inviting and open space where anyone can >>> participate regardless of affiliations. >>> >>> The APSEA awards seem like particularly odd bedfellows for OSGeo >>> Oceania... despite the "Asia-Pacific" name, they're predominantly >>> (entirely?) Australian. Not making a criticism but it doesn't seem in step >>> with OSGeo Oceania's community. >>> >>> Ohyeah, an MoU *has to be* public and reviewable by the community. >>>> OSGeo's MoU with OGC is a good example of this practice. >>>> >>> >>> +1 >>> >>> On Thu, 30 Mar 2023 at 08:14, Martin Tomko >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Oh, sorry – you mean VGI? That was me the academic speaking - >>>> Volunteered Geographic Information, e.g., OSM, or any other geo content >>>> (e.g., Mapillary Cam data, or OpenDrone Map, or other) that is volunteered >>>> by people, as opposed to a “super” category - User Generated Content, which >>>> is any stuff that may be gathered from people out there, even unknowingly >>>> (some call this Coerced Geographic Content …) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Agreed with your other points – and this makes it quite tricky to write >>>> a good MoU , but there is hope, >>>> >>>> M. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From: *Adam Steer >>>> *Date: *Thursday, 30 March 2023 at 10:05 am >>>> *To: *Martin Tomko >>>> *Cc: *OSGeo Oceania Board , OSgeo - >>>> Oceania >>>> *Subject: *Re: [Oceania-Board] [OSGeo Oceania] Geospatial Council of >>>> Australia - thoughts? >>>> >>>> Hi Martin >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Unfortunately unsurprising, I hope we can all work together to be >>>> better. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Noncompetition for grants is a great addition to an MoU, alongside >>>> preventing channeling of OSGeo, OSM, HOT etc (global) funds to non-open >>>> activities. Leading naturally to the principle of open data from >>>> open-branded activity; and hackathons resulting in PRs to existing projects >>>> rather than fork -> rebrand -> claim. >
Re: [OSGeo Oceania] [Oceania-Board] Geospatial Council of Australia - thoughts?
Hi John You've expressed my thoughts really well re. awards. Martin, I have many thoughts on volunteered/acquired/stolen geodata, for another chat. (Maybe we should get a microgrant and run a forum on the topic, if we run it in beechworth that'd be ace!) Alex, thanks for your action reaching out to Paul that's great!! Sooner the better - a public draft is a strong statement in itself ;). Cheers, Adam On Thu, Mar 30, 2023, 15:16 John Bryant wrote: > Adam wrote: >> >> Awards - personally not my thing and (IMO) about the last thing a >> community org should focus on. I've just returned from a couple of >> years in Norway dealing with a community that is strongly cult of >> personality (rockstar/award/??) based, and it sucks. Where was the >> community discussion about awards in OSGeo Oceania? >> > > I feel similarly. I think it's nice to recognise people's successes and > wins, but industry body awards feel like an echo chamber to me, reinforcing > in-group relationships. I've always admired OSGeo for its focus on reaching > the broader community, creating an inviting and open space where anyone can > participate regardless of affiliations. > > The APSEA awards seem like particularly odd bedfellows for OSGeo > Oceania... despite the "Asia-Pacific" name, they're predominantly > (entirely?) Australian. Not making a criticism but it doesn't seem in step > with OSGeo Oceania's community. > > Ohyeah, an MoU *has to be* public and reviewable by the community. >> OSGeo's MoU with OGC is a good example of this practice. >> > > +1 > > On Thu, 30 Mar 2023 at 08:14, Martin Tomko wrote: > >> Oh, sorry – you mean VGI? That was me the academic speaking - Volunteered >> Geographic Information, e.g., OSM, or any other geo content (e.g., >> Mapillary Cam data, or OpenDrone Map, or other) that is volunteered by >> people, as opposed to a “super” category - User Generated Content, which is >> any stuff that may be gathered from people out there, even unknowingly >> (some call this Coerced Geographic Content …) >> >> >> >> >> >> Agreed with your other points – and this makes it quite tricky to write a >> good MoU , but there is hope, >> >> M. >> >> >> >> *From: *Adam Steer >> *Date: *Thursday, 30 March 2023 at 10:05 am >> *To: *Martin Tomko >> *Cc: *OSGeo Oceania Board , OSgeo - >> Oceania >> *Subject: *Re: [Oceania-Board] [OSGeo Oceania] Geospatial Council of >> Australia - thoughts? >> >> Hi Martin >> >> >> >> Unfortunately unsurprising, I hope we can all work together to be better. >> >> >> >> Noncompetition for grants is a great addition to an MoU, alongside >> preventing channeling of OSGeo, OSM, HOT etc (global) funds to non-open >> activities. Leading naturally to the principle of open data from >> open-branded activity; and hackathons resulting in PRs to existing projects >> rather than fork -> rebrand -> claim. >> >> >> >> What does "VGC" expand to? >> >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> >> >> Adam >> ___ >> Oceania-Board mailing list >> oceania-bo...@lists.osgeo.org >> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania-board >> > ___ > Oceania mailing list > Oceania@lists.osgeo.org > https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania > ___ Oceania mailing list Oceania@lists.osgeo.org https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania
Re: [OSGeo Oceania] [Oceania-Board] Geospatial Council of Australia - thoughts?
Adam wrote: > > Awards - personally not my thing and (IMO) about the last thing a > community org should focus on. I've just returned from a couple of > years in Norway dealing with a community that is strongly cult of > personality (rockstar/award/??) based, and it sucks. Where was the > community discussion about awards in OSGeo Oceania? > I feel similarly. I think it's nice to recognise people's successes and wins, but industry body awards feel like an echo chamber to me, reinforcing in-group relationships. I've always admired OSGeo for its focus on reaching the broader community, creating an inviting and open space where anyone can participate regardless of affiliations. The APSEA awards seem like particularly odd bedfellows for OSGeo Oceania... despite the "Asia-Pacific" name, they're predominantly (entirely?) Australian. Not making a criticism but it doesn't seem in step with OSGeo Oceania's community. Ohyeah, an MoU *has to be* public and reviewable by the community. > OSGeo's MoU with OGC is a good example of this practice. > +1 On Thu, 30 Mar 2023 at 08:14, Martin Tomko wrote: > Oh, sorry – you mean VGI? That was me the academic speaking - Volunteered > Geographic Information, e.g., OSM, or any other geo content (e.g., > Mapillary Cam data, or OpenDrone Map, or other) that is volunteered by > people, as opposed to a “super” category - User Generated Content, which is > any stuff that may be gathered from people out there, even unknowingly > (some call this Coerced Geographic Content …) > > > > > > Agreed with your other points – and this makes it quite tricky to write a > good MoU , but there is hope, > > M. > > > > *From: *Adam Steer > *Date: *Thursday, 30 March 2023 at 10:05 am > *To: *Martin Tomko > *Cc: *OSGeo Oceania Board , OSgeo - > Oceania > *Subject: *Re: [Oceania-Board] [OSGeo Oceania] Geospatial Council of > Australia - thoughts? > > Hi Martin > > > > Unfortunately unsurprising, I hope we can all work together to be better. > > > > Noncompetition for grants is a great addition to an MoU, alongside > preventing channeling of OSGeo, OSM, HOT etc (global) funds to non-open > activities. Leading naturally to the principle of open data from > open-branded activity; and hackathons resulting in PRs to existing projects > rather than fork -> rebrand -> claim. > > > > What does "VGC" expand to? > > > > Cheers, > > > > Adam > ___ > Oceania-Board mailing list > oceania-bo...@lists.osgeo.org > https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania-board > ___ Oceania mailing list Oceania@lists.osgeo.org https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania
Re: [OSGeo Oceania] [Oceania-Board] Geospatial Council of Australia - thoughts?
Oh, sorry – you mean VGI? That was me the academic speaking - Volunteered Geographic Information, e.g., OSM, or any other geo content (e.g., Mapillary Cam data, or OpenDrone Map, or other) that is volunteered by people, as opposed to a “super” category - User Generated Content, which is any stuff that may be gathered from people out there, even unknowingly (some call this Coerced Geographic Content …) Agreed with your other points – and this makes it quite tricky to write a good MoU , but there is hope, M. From: Adam Steer Date: Thursday, 30 March 2023 at 10:05 am To: Martin Tomko Cc: OSGeo Oceania Board , OSgeo - Oceania Subject: Re: [Oceania-Board] [OSGeo Oceania] Geospatial Council of Australia - thoughts? Hi Martin Unfortunately unsurprising, I hope we can all work together to be better. Noncompetition for grants is a great addition to an MoU, alongside preventing channeling of OSGeo, OSM, HOT etc (global) funds to non-open activities. Leading naturally to the principle of open data from open-branded activity; and hackathons resulting in PRs to existing projects rather than fork -> rebrand -> claim. What does "VGC" expand to? Cheers, Adam ___ Oceania mailing list Oceania@lists.osgeo.org https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania
Re: [OSGeo Oceania] [Oceania-Board] Geospatial Council of Australia - thoughts?
Hi Martin Unfortunately unsurprising, I hope we can all work together to be better. Noncompetition for grants is a great addition to an MoU, alongside preventing channeling of OSGeo, OSM, HOT etc (global) funds to non-open activities. Leading naturally to the principle of open data from open-branded activity; and hackathons resulting in PRs to existing projects rather than fork -> rebrand -> claim. What does "VGC" expand to? Cheers, Adam ___ Oceania mailing list Oceania@lists.osgeo.org https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania
