Re: [OGF-L] Who can declare Product Identity (Third Party Beneficiaries?)
On 28 Feb 2005 at 21:47, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: However, there's nothing saying explicitly that PI has to be declared by anyone in particular. I was thinking that you had to be a party to the contract to declare PI, but then I asked myself this question: can a third party beneficiary declare PI without actually being a party to the contract or an assignee. This discussion festered up in the wake of an observation about whether you are bound by the PI in the SRD if you don't quote OGC from the SRD and include it in your Section 15. Thoughts? Comments? Not exactly sure what you are saying (an example would have been nice - hehe), but I will respond to what I think you are saying. IMO, it is implicit that the person putting material under the license is the one intended and required to declare what is and what isn't Product Identity. IIRC (it has been a while since I looked at the OGL), declaring product identity IS a part of the license, therefore the person who originally licenses the material (i.e. puts it under the OGL) is the one who declares the product identity. Remember, part of the OGL is that once declared as OGL, another person cannot come along and make it non-open again. This means that if I put the entire text of a product that I call Critical Combat under the OGL. You cannot come along later, use the section on herbs, and declare the herb names as product identity. They are already declared as open, and cannot be closed again. Doing so, or attempting to do so would be a breach of the license itself. TANSTAAFL Rasyr (Tim Dugger) System Editor Iron Crown Enterprises - http://www.ironcrown.com E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Ogf-l mailing list Ogf-l@mail.opengamingfoundation.org http://mail.opengamingfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ogf-l
Re: [OGF-L] Who can declare Product Identity (Third Party Beneficiaries?)
In a message dated 2/28/2005 10:15:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: IMO, it is implicit that the person putting material under the license is the one intended and required to declare what is and what isn't Product Identity. IIRC (it has been a while since I looked at the OGL), declaring product identity IS a part of the license, therefore the person who originally licenses the material (i.e. puts it under the OGL) is the one who declares the product identity. That's what one would assume, Tim. It just doesn't say it explicitly. And that's why I wondered (trying to give this other guy's reading the benefit of the doubt), if a third party beneficiary of some kind (i.e., someone gaining the benefits of the license but who is not a party to the license) could declare PI that would be binding over parties who were using the OGL? If the legalese is too vague, consider this. Tim, tomorrow you start a brand new company. You release a product. You don't use the OGL. But you write inside the front cover, "I feel that I am allowed to declare all my characters and poses as Product Identity as that term is used under the OGL, but my work is not covered by the OGL." First, is this binding over anyone, since nobody will have you in their Section 15. I'd say, "no" instinctively. But that's bringing in the color of license intent, industry usage, etc. (HUGE factors). Those aside, the license doesn't explicitly state who can declare PI. Weird, but unfortunately true. I think this is clear enough, but unfortunately, it is clear ONLY through inference and only with the knowledge of the intent of the license. Without that, it doesn't say anything about whether some third party can declare PI. Lee ___ Ogf-l mailing list Ogf-l@mail.opengamingfoundation.org http://mail.opengamingfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ogf-l
Re: [OGF-L] Who can declare Product Identity (Third Party Beneficiaries?)
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: However, there's nothing saying explicitly that PI has to be declared by anyone in particular. I was thinking that you had to be a party to the contract to declare PI, but then I asked myself this question: can a third party beneficiary declare PI without actually being a party to the contract or an assignee. Like I told you on RPG.net (and I really don't want to se this whole thing explode again), if you read the definition of what constitutes product identity in the OGL it goes beyond just a declaration of your individual PI in a product. From the definitions section of the OGL: 'Product Identity' means product and product line names, logos and identifying marks including trade dress; artifacts; creatures characters; stories, storylines, plots, thematic elements, dialogue, incidents, language, artwork, symbols, designs, depictions, likenesses, formats, poses, concepts, themes and graphic, photographic and other visual or audio representations; names and descriptions of characters, spells, enchantments, personalities, teams, personas, likenesses and special abilities; places, locations, environments, creatures, equipment, magical or supernatural abilities or effects, logos, symbols, or graphic designs; and any other trademark or registered trademark clearly identified as Product identity by the owner of the Product Identity, and which specifically excludes the Open Game Content It includes declarations of PI from other game producers, but it also means so much more. Particularly when taken in conjuction with Section 7 (Use of Product Identity): You agree not to Use any Product Identity, including as an indication as to compatibility, except as expressly licensed in another, independent Agreement with the owner of each element of that Product Identity. You agree not to indicate compatibility or co-adaptability with any Trademark or Registered Trademark in conjunction with a work containing Open Game Content except as expressly licensed in another, independent Agreement with the owner of such Trademark or Registered Trademark. The use of any Product Identity in Open Game Content does not constitute a challenge to the ownership of that Product Identity. The owner of any Product Identity used in Open Game Content shall retain all rights, title and interest in and to that Product Identity. The emphasis should be put on You agree not to use any product Identity as all of the rest is just icing. ___ Ogf-l mailing list Ogf-l@mail.opengamingfoundation.org http://mail.opengamingfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ogf-l
