Re: [Ogf-l] Re: OGL Logos?

2006-08-16 Thread Keith Robinson

[Steven Trustrum] Why? There's absolutely nothing wrong with that level of
winking. WotC itself sees nothing wrong with it.

Actually, I just received my copy of Rappan Athuk Reloaded (nice work, 
btw!) and noticed that on the front of the box is the following text:


A massive dungeon adventure for v3.5 fantasy roleplaying

I think that is the way to go and will have much more impact than a 
logo.  The term v3.5 fantasy roleplaying does exactly what you want.  
I'll probably start to use something similar on future products, which 
will work alongside existing requirements of the d20 license.


You could then support this with a logo (if you thought it necessary) 
such as:


http://www.thekyngdoms.com/images/d20/ogllogo.gif

Of course, I'm not sure about the legality of any of this, as IANAL.  
However, that seems like the way to go - with the text being the key 
driving force, creating a direct assosication.  As stated previously, 
however, the success of this is entirely dependant upon there a) being a 
market and b) having a market which understands the reference.


Keith Robinson
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Re: [Ogf-l] Re: OGL Logo

2006-08-16 Thread Tom Caudron
Mark Clover said, I'm going to point out that there are different WotC
people in charge of whether or not it matters than there were then and
there likely will be different people in charge at some point in the
future than there are now.

I'm as willing as the next guy to engage in wild paranoia (to a fault
g), but it's worth pointing out that contract law is contract law and
the terms of the OGL don't change based on who the CEO of WotC is.  And
if it did, then we should all run for the hills and adopt a new system
on which to base our respective publishing companies.

Mark Clover said, I'm going to point out that you are, by your own
admission, looking for a compatibility indicator and I'm going to posit
that you mean compatibility with the d20 System, a compatibility
indicator to be an alternative to the d20 system logo.

The Prometheus license indicates compatibility with the Prometheus
Reference Documents.  It is a purposeful by-product of the terms of the
OGL and the d20 SRD that the Prometheus Reference Documents are
compatible with the Revised Third Edition of Dungeons and Dragons.
Neither the license nor references documents say that.

Before people go too far in engaging in speculation about the Prometheus
license and game system, I encourage all of you to review what it claims
to do and what it does:

http://www.PrometheusGaming.com

I understand the confusion.  There have been some wild claims about the
Prometheus project from the very beginning.  It appears that the project
often promotes extreme reactions from industry folk.  Some love the
idea, some hate.  Judging by the comments on this list, very few are
truly indifferent.  Claims to the contrary notwithstanding, the feedback
here speaks for itself in that regard.

Mark Clover asked, This doesn't seem to have made much, if any, headway
in the last five/six(?) years.  Is there a reason you can think of why
this hasn't been adopted by all potential adopters in that time?

I think there is a clear reason: Bigger publishers are comfortable with
the status quo (perhaps rightly so) and small publishers aren't always
aware of the options and also often try to emulate the bigger
publishers.  The Prometheus Logo and License are a sort of air bag for
the industry.  If WotC chooses to close up 4E, and revoke the d20STL for
3E and Revised 3E, Prometheus will still be around offering
alternatives.  Until WotC does that, there are some who think they
won't.  Not saying they will, but I tend to err on the side of distrust
when it comes to large corporations.  If you trust Hasbro, then you are
correct in saying you don't /need/ the Prometheus project.

Mark Clover said, I think I might be able to understand things much
better if I could hear someone as familiar with the licensing you
champion detail why it has not been as successful as it could be.

I agree that any option has shortcomings.  the d20STL has shortcomings
as well.  The question is really a matter of whose shortcomings you want
to accept.  For me (and I'm biased on the subject---see my signature at
the bottom), I prefer the shortcomings of the Prometheus project over
those of the d20STL.  I love the work Ryan Dancey did on the OGL.  I am
not a big fan of the d20STL, however.  Any license that I would base a
company on cannot be a license that can be altered and or revoked on the
whim of the licensor.  That causes me to worry more than I'd like.  :)

Tom Caudron
Administrator for the Prometheus Project
http://www.PrometheusGaming.com


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Re: [Ogf-l] Open Game Content Logo

2006-08-16 Thread Mark Wilkinson

Markus Wilkinson wrote:

...
I'll even add an icosahedron to my logo to see if you
like it better that way.

I know i'd probably like it less. Unless what you're really looking  
for

is a D20-System-but-we-can't-say-that logo, i'd say shy away from
icosahedrons in a logo designed to identify OGC-containing products.
heck, i'd also think it preferable to apply terms to the logo that  
allow
it to be used with, frex, the Creative Commons and maybe EABA  
licenses.


I appreciate the input.

I definitely don't want to say 'D20-System-but-we-can't-say-that-logo'.
I'm afraid that I've been too vocal in the past about not liking the d20
system (of course that was in context to the game we developed, but
everyone accused me of talking generally).  I had to create a whole
website to clear the issue:
http://www.towerravens.com/univ-omnigamer.php?page=1

I'd rather not have an icosahedron on the logo (which is why the one
I made doesn't have one), but I'm more interested in a community
standard than what I personally want.

In the end though, I think the only thing that will pull this group
together enough to discuss adopting a standard logo is the
cancellation of the d20 System license.  It is a more volatile topic
that I originally supposed.

So, I'm going to politely drop the subject, not call anyone names,
and not get my feelings hurt.

Mark
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Re: [Ogf-l] Re: OGL Logo

2006-08-16 Thread Clark Peterson

 I'm as willing as the next guy to engage in wild
 paranoia (to a fault
 g), but it's worth pointing out that contract law
 is contract law and
 the terms of the OGL don't change based on who the
 CEO of WotC is.  And
 if it did, then we should all run for the hills and
 adopt a new system
 on which to base our respective publishing
 companies.

Then run for the hills now. Because a ton of all of
this depends on who's butt is in the legal chair at
WotC and how close they watch stuff.

In fact, just about none of it is actually about
contract law.

Terms may not change, but enforcement sure does.

Clark



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