Re: [OmniOS-discuss] Moving The Root Pool

[Andrew Gabriel]

On 14/02/2017 14:32, Jaakko Linnosaari wrote:


On 14 Feb 2017, at 16.06, Andre Kruger > wrote:


But, on many Windows forums there are warning cloning a HDD directly 
to an SSD, of the boot drive drive C, and then using the SSD. 
Apparently many users have experienced very slow performance. You can 
however clone from HDD to HDD or SSD to SSD without these performance 
problems. From there my question if anybody knows of a caveat not to 
do it in this way if I want to clone my rpool from HDD to SSD. If 
none I would rather walk this path as it is far less trouble.


I think the slow (write) performance is due to too small block size 
and write amplification.



You might want to update sd.conf with this...

https://wiki.illumos.org/display/illumos/List+of+sd-config-list+entries+for+Advanced-Format+drives

I recently added the Evo 850 to it, so it gives me an ashift 13 zpool on it.

That might stop you attaching it to an ashift 9 rpool though. I created 
a new rpool (called something else - the name doesn't matter), 
replicated the fdisk/slice structure, zfs send/recv the data across, and 
installed grub.



--

Andrew Gabriel

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Re: [OmniOS-discuss] Moving The Root Pool

[Jim Klimov]

14 февраля 2017 г. 15:06:37 CET, Andre Kruger  пишет:
>
>
>On 2017/02/14 15:38, Stephan Budach wrote:
>> Hi Andre,
>>
>> well, I wouldn't call it dead… there is a way to accomplish, what you
>
>> want and I had already performed such an action before. However, I 
>> cannot recall all the steps necessary. Looking at the link Dan 
>> provided, the steps lined out in the document  are still valid and I 
>> don't think that there is an easier way to do it.
>>
>> Regarding the other issues about a general advice against using a SSD
>
>> as a rpool… there is none I know of. Depending on the manufacturer
>you 
>> may want to provide enough free space on the SSD, as I don't know if 
>> Ilumos/OmniOS have come up to speed regarding TRIM, but you can
>always 
>> counter that by providing enough space for the SSD's GC.
>> If a SSD is suited as a rpool in Ilumos may be hard to judge. All I 
>> know is, that you should stay away from Samsung EVOs… unless you're 
>> operating them in a Windows environment.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Stephan
>
>Hi Stephan
>
>No sorry I think there is a misunderstanding. SSDs are excellent for 
>rpool. I was talking about taking a HDD on which rpool is installed ie
>a 
>running system. Shutting it down. Then cloning the HDD to the SSD. Plug
>
>the SSD into the previously running machine and just boot it up. Using 
>this method is much easier, simpler, and faster.
>
>But, on many Windows forums there are warning cloning a HDD directly to
>
>an SSD, of the boot drive drive C, and then using the SSD. Apparently 
>many users have experienced very slow performance. You can however
>clone 
>from HDD to HDD or SSD to SSD without these performance problems. From 
>there my question if anybody knows of a caveat not to do it in this way
>
>if I want to clone my rpool from HDD to SSD. If none I would rather
>walk 
>this path as it is far less trouble.
>
>BTW, why should one steer clear of the Samsung EVO's?
>
>
>Regards
>André

My take on it is that cloning may fail you because of native sector size that 
might be 512b to 4k on HDDs but may be 4k or 8k on SSDs. Using old block sizes 
may be suboptimal (RMW cycles) or impossible (if storage firmware does not 
virtualize legacy sector sizes).

So you'd be better off creating a pool on the ssd 'natively' and zfs send'ing 
the datasets from HDD recursively.

Jim
--
Typos courtesy of K-9 Mail on my Samsung Android
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Re: [OmniOS-discuss] Moving The Root Pool

[Jaakko Linnosaari]

> On 14 Feb 2017, at 16.06, Andre Kruger  wrote:
> 
> But, on many Windows forums there are warning cloning a HDD directly to an 
> SSD, of the boot drive drive C, and then using the SSD. Apparently many users 
> have experienced very slow performance. You can however clone from HDD to HDD 
> or SSD to SSD without these performance problems. From there my question if 
> anybody knows of a caveat not to do it in this way if I want to clone my 
> rpool from HDD to SSD. If none I would rather walk this path as it is far 
> less trouble.

I think the slow (write) performance is due to too small block size and write 
amplification.

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Re: [OmniOS-discuss] Moving The Root Pool

[Dan McDonald]

> On Feb 14, 2017, at 7:02 AM, Andre Kruger  wrote:
> 
> Shall I consider the matter dead?

No!

I'd asked about some things offline:

1.) Are the SSDs larger than the HDs?  (you said yes)

2.) Which OmniOS (you said r151018).


Since the SSDs are larger, you COULD use mirroring to clone your rpool.

1.) zpool attach [-f] rpool HDD-drive SSD-drive

2.) Let the mirror completely resilver.

3.) installgrub -M /dev/rdsk/HDD-drive /dev/rdsk/SSD-drive
   (alternatively installgrub /boot/grub/stage1 /boot/grub/stage2 
/dev/rdsk/SSD-drive)

4.) Reboot your system MAKING SURE YOU SELECT THE SSD TO BOOT.  This is 
important, because if you can't boot via SSD, you shouldn't break the HDD from 
the mirror.  OPTIONAL:  Unplug your HDD before booting.

If (and only if) you boot off the SSD successfully, proceed to decomission the 
HDD, and add the new SSD space to rpool:

5.) zpool detach rpool HDD-drive

6.) zpool online -e rpool

If you cannot boot off the SSD for some reason, reconnect the HDD, boot off of 
it, and detach the SSD from the rpool instead.  You'll have to try another way.

Dan

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Re: [OmniOS-discuss] Moving The Root Pool

[Andre Kruger]

On 2017/02/14 15:38, Stephan Budach wrote:

Hi Andre,

well, I wouldn't call it dead… there is a way to accomplish, what you 
want and I had already performed such an action before. However, I 
cannot recall all the steps necessary. Looking at the link Dan 
provided, the steps lined out in the document  are still valid and I 
don't think that there is an easier way to do it.


Regarding the other issues about a general advice against using a SSD 
as a rpool… there is none I know of. Depending on the manufacturer you 
may want to provide enough free space on the SSD, as I don't know if 
Ilumos/OmniOS have come up to speed regarding TRIM, but you can always 
counter that by providing enough space for the SSD's GC.
If a SSD is suited as a rpool in Ilumos may be hard to judge. All I 
know is, that you should stay away from Samsung EVOs… unless you're 
operating them in a Windows environment.


Cheers,
Stephan


Hi Stephan

No sorry I think there is a misunderstanding. SSDs are excellent for 
rpool. I was talking about taking a HDD on which rpool is installed ie a 
running system. Shutting it down. Then cloning the HDD to the SSD. Plug 
the SSD into the previously running machine and just boot it up. Using 
this method is much easier, simpler, and faster.


But, on many Windows forums there are warning cloning a HDD directly to 
an SSD, of the boot drive drive C, and then using the SSD. Apparently 
many users have experienced very slow performance. You can however clone 
from HDD to HDD or SSD to SSD without these performance problems. From 
there my question if anybody knows of a caveat not to do it in this way 
if I want to clone my rpool from HDD to SSD. If none I would rather walk 
this path as it is far less trouble.


BTW, why should one steer clear of the Samsung EVO's?


Regards
André
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Re: [OmniOS-discuss] Moving The Root Pool

[Stephan Budach]

Hi Andre, 

well, I wouldn't call it dead… there is a way to accomplish, what you want and 
I had already performed such an action before. However, I cannot recall all the 
steps necessary. Looking at the link Dan provided, the steps lined out in the 
document are still valid and I don't think that there is an easier way to do 
it. 

Regarding the other issues about a general advice against using a SSD as a 
rpool… there is none I know of. Depending on the manufacturer you may want to 
provide enough free space on the SSD, as I don't know if Ilumos/OmniOS have 
come up to speed regarding TRIM, but you can always counter that by providing 
enough space for the SSD's GC. 
If a SSD is suited as a rpool in Ilumos may be hard to judge. All I know is, 
that you should stay away from Samsung EVOs… unless you're operating them in a 
Windows environment. 

Cheers, 
Stephan 


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Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
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Re: [OmniOS-discuss] Moving The Root Pool

[Andre Kruger]

On 2017/02/10 16:26, Andre Kruger wrote:

I am running r151018.

The SSD is bigger that the HDD and I use USB installation media.


On 2017/02/10 16:05, Dan McDonald wrote:

On Feb 10, 2017, at 2:44 AM, Andre Kruger  wrote:

I have a running OmniOS system that boots from HDD but I would like to boot the 
machine from SSD. I first pondered if I could just create an image, using 
CloneZilla, of the rpool disk and then restore that image again onto the SSD.

I hadn't heard of clonezilla until just now.


I am not sure if that is an acceptable method?

The problem with that is your disk device will be under a different name, and 
this confuses the illumos boot system a bit.


I know the windows community warns against this practice. You can clone from 
HDD to HDD or SSD to SSD, but I have read many reports of windows users 
experiencing slow performance when cloning from HDD to SSD.

I have no idea why that would be the case, but regardless...


Would OmniOS suffer the same performance problems if cloning from HDD to SSD?

... I can't say for sure.


If it will, would this procedure that I found on the OpenIndiana Wiki be valid 
without much tweaking?

https://wiki.openindiana.org/oi/How+to+migrate+the+root+pool

That article is a bit old.

I've some questions that will help me give better advice.  There are no wrong 
answers here, just be as accurate as you can:

- Which revision of OmniOS are you running?
- Is your new SSD the same or greater size than the HD you have now?
- Do you have a CD/DVD or USB installer media?

Thanks,
Dan





Shall I consider the matter dead?
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Re: [OmniOS-discuss] Moving The Root Pool

[Dan McDonald]

> On Feb 10, 2017, at 2:44 AM, Andre Kruger  wrote:
> 
> I have a running OmniOS system that boots from HDD but I would like to boot 
> the machine from SSD. I first pondered if I could just create an image, using 
> CloneZilla, of the rpool disk and then restore that image again onto the SSD.

I hadn't heard of clonezilla until just now.

> I am not sure if that is an acceptable method?

The problem with that is your disk device will be under a different name, and 
this confuses the illumos boot system a bit.

> I know the windows community warns against this practice. You can clone from 
> HDD to HDD or SSD to SSD, but I have read many reports of windows users 
> experiencing slow performance when cloning from HDD to SSD.

I have no idea why that would be the case, but regardless...

> Would OmniOS suffer the same performance problems if cloning from HDD to SSD?

... I can't say for sure.

> If it will, would this procedure that I found on the OpenIndiana Wiki be 
> valid without much tweaking?
> 
> https://wiki.openindiana.org/oi/How+to+migrate+the+root+pool

That article is a bit old.

I've some questions that will help me give better advice.  There are no wrong 
answers here, just be as accurate as you can:

- Which revision of OmniOS are you running?
- Is your new SSD the same or greater size than the HD you have now?
- Do you have a CD/DVD or USB installer media?

Thanks,
Dan

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[OmniOS-discuss] Moving The Root Pool

[Andre Kruger]

  
  
I have a running OmniOS system
that boots from HDD but I would like to boot the machine from
SSD. I first pondered if I could just create an image, using
CloneZilla, of the rpool disk and then restore that image again
onto the SSD. I am not sure if that is an acceptable method? I
know the windows community warns against this practice. You can
clone from HDD to HDD or SSD to SSD, but I have read many
reports of windows users experiencing slow performance when
cloning from HDD to SSD.

Would OmniOS suffer the same performance problems if cloning
from HDD to SSD?

If it will, would this procedure that I found on the OpenIndiana
Wiki be valid without much tweaking?

https://wiki.openindiana.org/oi/How+to+migrate+the+root+pool


André
  
  

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