Re: [OmniOS-discuss] OmniOS CE question: will there be a LTS stable release?
On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 20:27:28 +0100 Peter Tribble wrote: > > Which does open the question: how many people need LTS? (And what > does LTS mean for them - in terms of how long support would be needed, > and what level of support/backports they expect.) Perhaps Chris could > chip in here, but I know that with my $DAYJOB hat on the idea of > dropping security updates for release X as soon as release Y comes out > is a bit of a non-starter. > I forgot one other important reason: 6) Hardware is acquired only if it is 100% supported by LTS release and a 3 years support period nicely fits the expected lifetime for hardware. -- Hilsen/Regards Michael Rasmussen Get my public GnuPG keys: michael rasmussen cc http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xD3C9A00E mir datanom net http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xE501F51C mir miras org http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xE3E80917 -- /usr/games/fortune -es says: He hated being thought of as one of those people that wore stupid ornamental armour. It was gilt by association. -- Terry Pratchett, "Night Watch" pgpsFD5USOjH7.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ OmniOS-discuss mailing list OmniOS-discuss@lists.omniti.com http://lists.omniti.com/mailman/listinfo/omnios-discuss
Re: [OmniOS-discuss] OmniOS CE question: will there be a LTS stable release?
On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 20:27:28 +0100 Peter Tribble wrote: > > Which does open the question: how many people need LTS? (And what > does LTS mean for them - in terms of how long support would be needed, > and what level of support/backports they expect.) Perhaps Chris could > chip in here, but I know that with my $DAYJOB hat on the idea of > dropping security updates for release X as soon as release Y comes out > is a bit of a non-starter. > The reason I highly favor LTS releases are as follows: 1) Omnios(ce) is used as storage server for a virtualized environment. 2) Omnios(ce) does not have a cluster solution within reach of my pocket book. 3) Every kernel upgrade means every VM except for infrastructure VM's which run on other hardware faces downtime which means disruption of service. 4) Because of this I want to minimize kernel upgrades. 5) An Omnios(ce) upgrade always includes a kernel upgrade. I guess the above reasons apply to many data center installations an especially data center installations for virtualized environments. -- Hilsen/Regards Michael Rasmussen Get my public GnuPG keys: michael rasmussen cc http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xD3C9A00E mir datanom net http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xE501F51C mir miras org http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xE3E80917 -- /usr/games/fortune -es says: No matter how much you do you never do enough. pgpD6JMKWKRO9.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ OmniOS-discuss mailing list OmniOS-discuss@lists.omniti.com http://lists.omniti.com/mailman/listinfo/omnios-discuss
Re: [OmniOS-discuss] OmniOS CE question: will there be a LTS stable release?
On Wed, 26 Jul 2017, Peter Tribble wrote: On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 7:50 PM, Bob Friesenhahn < bfrie...@simple.dallas.tx.us> wrote: This would be a great way for a commercial outfit which offers paid support contracts to get involved. LTS releases are quite a lot of commitment and work but a commercial support company might be able to commit to doing this work. I think we've already concluded that doing this isn't a viable commercial proposition. I think that being a viable commercial proposition depends on the cost structure and customer expectations. OmniTI has a high cost model with presumably highly-compensated individuals living in presumably high cost of living areas. A small company in Slovakia could likely accomplish what a company in the San Francisco bay area could not. Bob -- Bob Friesenhahn bfrie...@simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer,http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ ___ OmniOS-discuss mailing list OmniOS-discuss@lists.omniti.com http://lists.omniti.com/mailman/listinfo/omnios-discuss
Re: [OmniOS-discuss] OmniOS CE question: will there be a LTS stable release?
On Wed, 26 Jul 2017, Peter Tribble wrote: ; Now the current release (151022) is marked as LTS. So at least you're in ; a reasonably stable place right now and have options, with no need to ; commit to anythjing for a few months. Just to be clear, r151022 was marked as LTS by OmniTI. Those three letters did make it into one of our announcements (the second one I think) but we are not currently considering r151022 to be an LTS release. r151024 is currently pencilled in for late November (6 months after the release of r151022) and once it arrives, r22 will continue to be supported for 6 months, until r26 lands. We would encourage people to move to r24 during that time rather than waiting until r22 stops being supported. As Tobi has said, we're open to discussion and interested in people's views https://gitter.im/omniosorg/Lobby Andy -- Citrus IT Limited | +44 (0)333 0124 007 | enquir...@citrus-it.co.uk Rock House Farm | Green Moor | Wortley | Sheffield | S35 7DQ Registered in England and Wales | Company number 4899123 ___ OmniOS-discuss mailing list OmniOS-discuss@lists.omniti.com http://lists.omniti.com/mailman/listinfo/omnios-discuss
Re: [OmniOS-discuss] OmniOS CE question: will there be a LTS stable release?
> Which does open the question: how many people need LTS? (And what does > LTS mean for them - in terms of how long support would be needed, and > what level of support/backports they expect.) Perhaps Chris could chip > in here, but I know that with my $DAYJOB hat on the idea of dropping > security updates for release X as soon as release Y comes out is a bit > of a non-starter. We care almost entirely about security updates. It would be nice to get updates for data-loss or panic-your-system problems as well, but it's not as essential as we very much hope not to hit one once we have qualified a production environment, and some of them will make applying updates more dangerous (since you're talking about more changes and changes to things like the kernel). We need this for at least two years per release, ideally with six months or so overlap of security updates between LTS releases. We need such a long support period (and the overlap) because in our environment, qualifying and rolling out a new release is not something that we can do easily, rapidly, or very often. OmniOS sits at the center of our fileserver infrastructure, which sits at the center of our entire environment; if a fileserver has problems, *everything* has problems (and then a bunch of professors and graduate students get angry at us, which has various bad consequences for everyone). (This also applies to some updates within a single release, especially kernel updates. An updated kernel is not too far off from a new release unless it only has very narrow and very specific fixes that we can be highly confident in.) A few months ago (when the initial OmniOS news broke) I wrote more about our needs here: https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/solaris/IllumosDistributionNeeds Background on our fileserver environment is here: https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/solaris/ZFSFileserverSetupII - cks ___ OmniOS-discuss mailing list OmniOS-discuss@lists.omniti.com http://lists.omniti.com/mailman/listinfo/omnios-discuss
Re: [OmniOS-discuss] OmniOS CE question: will there be a LTS stable release?
> On 26 Jul 2017, at 22:27, Peter Tribble wrote: > [...] > but I know that with my $DAYJOB hat on the idea of > dropping security updates for release X as soon as release Y comes out > is a bit of a non-starter. our idea is to support X as well as X-1 so there would be half a year overlap. and I bet that if many people step up with checkbook or spare time and abilities in hand for LTS releases, that is certainly doable. cheers tobi ___ OmniOS-discuss mailing list OmniOS-discuss@lists.omniti.com http://lists.omniti.com/mailman/listinfo/omnios-discuss
Re: [OmniOS-discuss] OmniOS CE question: will there be a LTS stable release?
On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 7:50 PM, Bob Friesenhahn < bfrie...@simple.dallas.tx.us> wrote: > On Wed, 26 Jul 2017, Tobias Oetiker wrote: > > we have discussed this in the core team and found that no one of us has >> been >> using LTS until now and no one is planning to do so in the future ... >> > A couple of points here: The first is that while the project is finding its feet, making decisions about what the detailed support model might look like in 6 months to 2 years time is somewhat premature. The second is that the support model doesn't have to be an exact mirror of the schedule that OmniTI put in place. There's no reason you couldn't adjust the cadence and level of releases. Now the current release (151022) is marked as LTS. So at least you're in a reasonably stable place right now and have options, with no need to commit to anythjing for a few months. Which does open the question: how many people need LTS? (And what does LTS mean for them - in terms of how long support would be needed, and what level of support/backports they expect.) Perhaps Chris could chip in here, but I know that with my $DAYJOB hat on the idea of dropping security updates for release X as soon as release Y comes out is a bit of a non-starter. > This would be a great way for a commercial outfit which offers paid > support contracts to get involved. LTS releases are quite a lot of > commitment and work but a commercial support company might be able to > commit to doing this work. > I think we've already concluded that doing this isn't a viable commercial proposition. > Alternatively, a different set of volunteers could focus on LTS. > Well quite - community projects tend to have their direction set by those actually doing the work. Doing LTS "properly" is a heck of a lot of work (and the amount of work increases rapidly over time as you diverge from mainstream). But I can imagine an LTS-lite extended support model with just crucial security fixes would be a lot easier (and might be what customers want anyway). -- -Peter Tribble http://www.petertribble.co.uk/ - http://ptribble.blogspot.com/ ___ OmniOS-discuss mailing list OmniOS-discuss@lists.omniti.com http://lists.omniti.com/mailman/listinfo/omnios-discuss
Re: [OmniOS-discuss] OmniOS CE question: will there be a LTS stable release?
On Wed, 26 Jul 2017, Tobias Oetiker wrote: we have discussed this in the core team and found that no one of us has been using LTS until now and no one is planning to do so in the future ... This would be a great way for a commercial outfit which offers paid support contracts to get involved. LTS releases are quite a lot of commitment and work but a commercial support company might be able to commit to doing this work. Alternatively, a different set of volunteers could focus on LTS. Bob -- Bob Friesenhahn bfrie...@simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer,http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ ___ OmniOS-discuss mailing list OmniOS-discuss@lists.omniti.com http://lists.omniti.com/mailman/listinfo/omnios-discuss
Re: [OmniOS-discuss] OmniOS CE question: will there be a LTS stable release?
Hi Chris, we have discussed this in the core team and found that no one of us has been using LTS until now and no one is planning to do so in the future ... What we intend, is to support the current and previous release with an emphasis on the current release going forward from r151022. That said, maybe someone will step up and take up the LTS mantel. The build process for r151022 is in better shape than ever, now that Andy and Dominik have lavished all that love on it. SO if this is of interest to you, we will be glad to hear your ideas and also help out if someone wants to step up. Let's discuss in https://gitter.im/omniosorg/Lobby cheers tobi - On Jul 25, 2017, at 11:59 PM, Chris Siebenmann c...@cs.toronto.edu wrote: > The OmniOS CE release announcement here on the mailing list covered > the broad plans for the (non-Bloody) release schedule: > > The intention is for new stable releases to continue to come > out every 26 weeks. Interim, "weekly" updates to stable follow a > fixed schedule denoted by letters, one per week. Weekly releases > are made as needed, so there may not be a release each week. [...] > > My assumption is that normally, each regular stable release only > receives updates until the next regular stable release comes out; when > the next stable release comes out, you are expected to update to it and > then start tracking the interim weekly updates to the new stable. This > raises two closely related questions: > > First, is this understanding of updates to stable releases accurate? > > Second, if it is, are there any plans for a 'LTS' stable release with > an extended period of at least security updates for that LTS release? > Is this in fact the current r151022 release, which I've seen some CE > messages describe as 'OmniOS r151022 LTS' (eg in the announcement of > r151022i)? > > Thanks in advance, and my apologies if I've overlooked a discussion > of this on the mailing list (or a mention of this on the OmniOS CE > website). > > - cks > ___ > OmniOS-discuss mailing list > OmniOS-discuss@lists.omniti.com > http://lists.omniti.com/mailman/listinfo/omnios-discuss -- Tobi Oetiker, OETIKER+PARTNER AG, Aarweg 15 CH-4600 Olten, Switzerland www.oetiker.ch t...@oetiker.ch +41 62 775 9902 ___ OmniOS-discuss mailing list OmniOS-discuss@lists.omniti.com http://lists.omniti.com/mailman/listinfo/omnios-discuss
[OmniOS-discuss] OmniOS CE question: will there be a LTS stable release?
The OmniOS CE release announcement here on the mailing list covered the broad plans for the (non-Bloody) release schedule: The intention is for new stable releases to continue to come out every 26 weeks. Interim, "weekly" updates to stable follow a fixed schedule denoted by letters, one per week. Weekly releases are made as needed, so there may not be a release each week. [...] My assumption is that normally, each regular stable release only receives updates until the next regular stable release comes out; when the next stable release comes out, you are expected to update to it and then start tracking the interim weekly updates to the new stable. This raises two closely related questions: First, is this understanding of updates to stable releases accurate? Second, if it is, are there any plans for a 'LTS' stable release with an extended period of at least security updates for that LTS release? Is this in fact the current r151022 release, which I've seen some CE messages describe as 'OmniOS r151022 LTS' (eg in the announcement of r151022i)? Thanks in advance, and my apologies if I've overlooked a discussion of this on the mailing list (or a mention of this on the OmniOS CE website). - cks ___ OmniOS-discuss mailing list OmniOS-discuss@lists.omniti.com http://lists.omniti.com/mailman/listinfo/omnios-discuss