Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] ~6 minutes to OI banner/boot options in text install
> On 30. Jan 2021, at 09:40, Chris wrote: > > On 2021-01-29 22:24, Toomas Soome via openindiana-discuss wrote: >>> On 30. Jan 2021, at 03:43, Chris wrote: >>> On 2021-01-29 17:18, Andy Fiddaman wrote: On Fri, 29 Jan 2021, Chris wrote: ; OK just dragged a Dell Optiplex 790 off the shelf ; with a 4 core 8 thread i5 CPU in it, and as much RAM ; as I could jam in it. ; BIOS: ; boot UEFI ; SATA ahci ; I've tried 2 different Nvidia cards, as well as the ; intermal video. The results are the same; ; 2.5 minutes to get to the OI banner/boot options. ; An additiona 3.5 to draw the OI banner/options screen. ; It takes ~0.5 seconds to draw each cell. To be clear; ; I'm not complaining here. Rather, I'm trying to ; pinpoint WTF is going wrong in hopes of overcoming ; the problem. I've attempted to put OI on 3 different ; computers now, and the results have all been ; underwhelming in the console dept. ; ; Any thoughts? If you can press really early in the boot process, you get the first loader prompt (I forget exactly how it looks). At that point, enter "-t" without the quotes and press return. That will keep in VGA mode, which might well be faster/usable. >>> Huge thanks for the reply, Andy! >>> Yes, it made a difference. Drawing each cell only takes 0.25 >>> seconds. :-P >>> So somewhat faster, anyway. It's funny. It starts out quite >>> fast. The speed I normally experience with other stuff. It >>> writes >>> Available consoles: >>> text VGA ... >>> ttya port 0x3f8 >>> ttyb ... not present >>> ttyc ... not present >>> ttyd ... not present >>> null software device >>> spin software device >>> Right at this point is where it drops to about 1/2 or slower speed. >>> Then, cell by cell, it prints >>> console ttyb failed to initialize >>> console ttyc failed to initialize >>> console ttyd failed to initialize >> This is the point where you have got hint about why this happens. The same >> defect >> is with virtualbox, when you have configured host pipe for serial device. >> The three lines above tell us that ttya was successfully initialized, so it >> must >> have to do about ttya. > OK I neglected to note that this was including the advice by Andy to drop to > text mode, by interrupting loader, and entering -t at the prompt followed by > enter. It's clear that it was attempting serial mode -- note the port 0x3f8 > Without interrupting loader, text and ttya return: > text VESA (800x600 - 1600x1200 depending on what I'm hooked up to) > ttya ... not present > > I'm attempting it again via Legacy where > text VESA 1600x1200 > ttya ... not present > Choosing 5 (options), followed by 5 (verbose) has already taken 20 > minutes (it's still in progress). I think I'm just going to try to > install it and work on it further from the internal disk. In hopes > of getting at least a small speed increase from 0 to actual boot. > > I greatly appreciate your insight on this, Toomas. Ok, so this guess was not good one afterall. If you are doing CD (ISO) boot, you will get loader started as first stage - that is, there is no way to enter options; however, once you get out of menu and on O prompt, you can enter: framebuffer off on BIOS boot, this will switch to VGA text mode, on UEFI, it will switch terminal draw from GOP Blt() to SimpleTextOutput protocol (gfx can not be switched off as there is no VGA text mode in UEFI, there may not be even VGA). If you are booting from USB stick, press space on very first spinner to get boot: prompt, from there you can enter: -t as Andy was suggesting, it will start loader in text mode, without switching to VBE framebuffer. Once the OS is installed, you can create /boot/config with -t in it, this will achieve the same effect. That much about workaround. “normally”, if drawing in FB mode is slow, it will help to use lower resolution and/or depth, but as you wrote, 800x600 was just as bad as 1920x1200, it means something else is going on there. You can set mode as: framebuffer set XxY[xD], where D is for depth, defaults to 32, if not present. framebuffer list [depth] will list available modes. With BIOS mode, you can also try something like 640x400 or 640x480, below that the terminal will get too weird even with 6x12 font... If depth 8 or 15/16 does not make it faster, it still means there is something weird going on, and at this point, I’d suggest to check if there is firmware update from vendor. (tbh, firmware update would be good as first check, the hw vendors are known to produce a lot of bad things, especially if it comes to have bios emulation with uefi csm.). rgds, toomas >> If you comment out (I am assuming you have installed OS) the line: >> console="text, ttya, ttyb, ttyc, ttyd” >> from /boot/defaults/loader.conf, you will probably find the console is much >> better. >> rgds, >> toomas > --Chris >>> Then clears the screen to draw the OI ban
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] ~6 minutes to OI banner/boot options in text install
On 2021-01-30 00:03, Toomas Soome wrote: On 30. Jan 2021, at 09:40, Chris wrote: On 2021-01-29 22:24, Toomas Soome via openindiana-discuss wrote: On 30. Jan 2021, at 03:43, Chris wrote: On 2021-01-29 17:18, Andy Fiddaman wrote: On Fri, 29 Jan 2021, Chris wrote: ; OK just dragged a Dell Optiplex 790 off the shelf ; with a 4 core 8 thread i5 CPU in it, and as much RAM ; as I could jam in it. ; BIOS: ; boot UEFI ; SATA ahci ; I've tried 2 different Nvidia cards, as well as the ; intermal video. The results are the same; ; 2.5 minutes to get to the OI banner/boot options. ; An additiona 3.5 to draw the OI banner/options screen. ; It takes ~0.5 seconds to draw each cell. To be clear; ; I'm not complaining here. Rather, I'm trying to ; pinpoint WTF is going wrong in hopes of overcoming ; the problem. I've attempted to put OI on 3 different ; computers now, and the results have all been ; underwhelming in the console dept. ; ; Any thoughts? If you can press really early in the boot process, you get the first loader prompt (I forget exactly how it looks). At that point, enter "-t" without the quotes and press return. That will keep in VGA mode, which might well be faster/usable. Huge thanks for the reply, Andy! Yes, it made a difference. Drawing each cell only takes 0.25 seconds. :-P So somewhat faster, anyway. It's funny. It starts out quite fast. The speed I normally experience with other stuff. It writes Available consoles: text VGA ... ttya port 0x3f8 ttyb ... not present ttyc ... not present ttyd ... not present null software device spin software device Right at this point is where it drops to about 1/2 or slower speed. Then, cell by cell, it prints console ttyb failed to initialize console ttyc failed to initialize console ttyd failed to initialize This is the point where you have got hint about why this happens. The same defect is with virtualbox, when you have configured host pipe for serial device. The three lines above tell us that ttya was successfully initialized, so it must have to do about ttya. OK I neglected to note that this was including the advice by Andy to drop to text mode, by interrupting loader, and entering -t at the prompt followed by enter. It's clear that it was attempting serial mode -- note the port 0x3f8 Without interrupting loader, text and ttya return: text VESA (800x600 - 1600x1200 depending on what I'm hooked up to) ttya ... not present I'm attempting it again via Legacy where text VESA 1600x1200 ttya ... not present Choosing 5 (options), followed by 5 (verbose) has already taken 20 minutes (it's still in progress). I think I'm just going to try to install it and work on it further from the internal disk. In hopes of getting at least a small speed increase from 0 to actual boot. I greatly appreciate your insight on this, Toomas. Ok, so this guess was not good one afterall. If you are doing CD (ISO) boot, you will get loader started as first stage - that is, there is no way to enter options; however, once you get out of menu and on O prompt, you can enter: framebuffer off on BIOS boot, this will switch to VGA text mode, on UEFI, it will switch terminal draw from GOP Blt() to SimpleTextOutput protocol (gfx can not be switched off as there is no VGA text mode in UEFI, there may not be even VGA). If you are booting from USB stick, press space on very first spinner to get boot: prompt, from there you can enter: -t as Andy was suggesting, it will start loader in text mode, without switching to VBE framebuffer. Once the OS is installed, you can create /boot/config with -t in it, this will achieve the same effect. That much about workaround. “normally”, if drawing in FB mode is slow, it will help to use lower resolution and/or depth, but as you wrote, 800x600 was just as bad as 1920x1200, it means something else is going on there. You can set mode as: framebuffer set XxY[xD], where D is for depth, defaults to 32, if not present. framebuffer list [depth] will list available modes. With BIOS mode, you can also try something like 640x400 or 640x480, below that the terminal will get too weird even with 6x12 font... If depth 8 or 15/16 does not make it faster, it still means there is something weird going on, and at this point, I’d suggest to check if there is firmware update from vendor. (tbh, firmware update would be good as first check, the hw vendors are known to produce a lot of bad things, especially if it comes to have bios emulation with uefi csm.). Sure. Good point. But already updated it. You've given me some things to poke at. I'll give them a try, and see if anything interesting develops. Thank you very much for taking the time, Toomas. Greatly appreciated! rgds, toomas --Chris If you comment out (I am assuming you have installed OS) the line: console="text, ttya, ttyb, ttyc, ttyd” from /boot/defaults/loader.conf, you will probably find the console is much better. rgds, toomas --Chris Then clears the screen to draw th
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] ~6 minutes to OI banner/boot options in text install
> On 30. Jan 2021, at 10:39, Chris wrote: > > On 2021-01-30 00:03, Toomas Soome wrote: >>> On 30. Jan 2021, at 09:40, Chris wrote: >>> On 2021-01-29 22:24, Toomas Soome via openindiana-discuss wrote: > On 30. Jan 2021, at 03:43, Chris wrote: > On 2021-01-29 17:18, Andy Fiddaman wrote: >> On Fri, 29 Jan 2021, Chris wrote: >> ; OK just dragged a Dell Optiplex 790 off the shelf >> ; with a 4 core 8 thread i5 CPU in it, and as much RAM >> ; as I could jam in it. >> ; BIOS: >> ; boot UEFI >> ; SATA ahci >> ; I've tried 2 different Nvidia cards, as well as the >> ; intermal video. The results are the same; >> ; 2.5 minutes to get to the OI banner/boot options. >> ; An additiona 3.5 to draw the OI banner/options screen. >> ; It takes ~0.5 seconds to draw each cell. To be clear; >> ; I'm not complaining here. Rather, I'm trying to >> ; pinpoint WTF is going wrong in hopes of overcoming >> ; the problem. I've attempted to put OI on 3 different >> ; computers now, and the results have all been >> ; underwhelming in the console dept. >> ; >> ; Any thoughts? >> If you can press really early in the boot process, you get the >> first loader prompt (I forget exactly how it looks). At that point, >> enter "-t" without the quotes and press return. That will keep in >> VGA mode, which might well be faster/usable. > Huge thanks for the reply, Andy! > Yes, it made a difference. Drawing each cell only takes 0.25 > seconds. :-P > So somewhat faster, anyway. It's funny. It starts out quite > fast. The speed I normally experience with other stuff. It > writes > Available consoles: > text VGA ... > ttya port 0x3f8 > ttyb ... not present > ttyc ... not present > ttyd ... not present > null software device > spin software device > Right at this point is where it drops to about 1/2 or slower speed. > Then, cell by cell, it prints > console ttyb failed to initialize > console ttyc failed to initialize > console ttyd failed to initialize This is the point where you have got hint about why this happens. The same defect is with virtualbox, when you have configured host pipe for serial device. The three lines above tell us that ttya was successfully initialized, so it must have to do about ttya. >>> OK I neglected to note that this was including the advice by Andy to drop to >>> text mode, by interrupting loader, and entering -t at the prompt followed by >>> enter. It's clear that it was attempting serial mode -- note the port 0x3f8 >>> Without interrupting loader, text and ttya return: >>> text VESA (800x600 - 1600x1200 depending on what I'm hooked up to) >>> ttya ... not present >>> I'm attempting it again via Legacy where >>> text VESA 1600x1200 >>> ttya ... not present >>> Choosing 5 (options), followed by 5 (verbose) has already taken 20 >>> minutes (it's still in progress). I think I'm just going to try to >>> install it and work on it further from the internal disk. In hopes >>> of getting at least a small speed increase from 0 to actual boot. >>> I greatly appreciate your insight on this, Toomas. >> Ok, so this guess was not good one afterall. If you are doing CD (ISO) boot, >> you >> will get loader started as first stage - that is, there is no way to enter >> options; however, once you get out of menu and on O prompt, you can enter: >> framebuffer off >> on BIOS boot, this will switch to VGA text mode, on UEFI, it will switch >> terminal >> draw from GOP Blt() to SimpleTextOutput protocol (gfx can not be switched >> off as >> there is no VGA text mode in UEFI, there may not be even VGA). >> If you are booting from USB stick, press space on very first spinner to get >> boot: >> prompt, from there you can enter: -t as Andy was suggesting, it will start >> loader >> in text mode, without switching to VBE framebuffer. Once the OS is >> installed, you >> can create /boot/config with -t in it, this will achieve the same effect. >> That much about workaround. >> “normally”, if drawing in FB mode is slow, it will help to use lower >> resolution >> and/or depth, but as you wrote, 800x600 was just as bad as 1920x1200, it >> means >> something else is going on there. >> You can set mode as: framebuffer set XxY[xD], where D is for depth, defaults >> to >> 32, if not present. framebuffer list [depth] will list available modes. With >> BIOS >> mode, you can also try something like 640x400 or 640x480, below that the >> terminal >> will get too weird even with 6x12 font... >> If depth 8 or 15/16 does not make it faster, it still means there is >> something >> weird going on, and at this point, I’d suggest to check if there is firmware >> update from vendor. (tbh, firmware update would be good as first check, the >> hw >> vendors are known to produce a lot of bad things, especially if it comes to >> have >> bios emulatio
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] ~6 minutes to OI banner/boot options in text install
On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 08:19:16AM +0200, Toomas Soome via openindiana-discuss wrote: > > > On 30. Jan 2021, at 03:57, Gary Mills wrote: > > > > The loader works in UEFI mode, but OI does not. Usually you are > > offered a choice at boot time. Chose BIOS mode. > > What you mean by “OI does not”? In my experience with the OI live USB image, it would run in either mode. Even the installer worked correctly. However, when I tried to boot the disk where I just installed, it failed in UEFI mode. It worked in BIOS mode. The problem was likely with the VESA video driver, which is run as a last resort by Xorg. The VESA driver makes BIOS calls that fail when there is no BIOS. I'm using the Radeon HD 7450 video card that only works with the VESA driver. Hence OI boot only works in BIOS mode. /var/log/Xorg.0.log tells the tale. -- -Gary Mills--refurb--Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada- ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] ~6 minutes to OI banner/boot options in text install
> On 30. Jan 2021, at 16:22, Gary Mills wrote: > > On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 08:19:16AM +0200, Toomas Soome via > openindiana-discuss wrote: >> >>> On 30. Jan 2021, at 03:57, Gary Mills wrote: >>> >>> The loader works in UEFI mode, but OI does not. Usually you are >>> offered a choice at boot time. Chose BIOS mode. >> >> What you mean by “OI does not”? > > In my experience with the OI live USB image, it would run in either > mode. Even the installer worked correctly. However, when I tried to > boot the disk where I just installed, it failed in UEFI mode. It > worked in BIOS mode. > > The problem was likely with the VESA video driver, which is run as a > last resort by Xorg. The VESA driver makes BIOS calls that fail when > there is no BIOS. I'm using the Radeon HD 7450 video card that only > works with the VESA driver. Hence OI boot only works in BIOS mode. > /var/log/Xorg.0.log tells the tale. > > > oh, well, in that case, the issue is not about OI not working in UEFI mode (because it does), but the issue is that Xorg can not use vesa driver when there is no vesa bios (which is perfectly good reason). Also, having to run OI in BIOS mode because you need to run Xorg, is also good reason, but you can not tell that OI does not work with UEFI, because that is not true:) Of course the root cause is about missing DRM driver and thats the reason why you need to use vesa in first place…. Just to keep records correct, toomas ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] openindiana-discuss Digest, Vol 126, Issue 93
<> Message: 1 Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2021 21:47:38 + (UTC) From: Reginald Beardsley To: Hung Nguyen Gia via openindiana-discuss Subject: Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] A rant Message-ID: <1736447057.386921.1611956858...@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I have been ignoring this torrent of BS as patiently as I can, but I'm really getting tired of it. First of all, computing has a 75 year old history. There have been many false starts and mistakes along the way. The failure of the new arrivals to learn from the past results in the same mistakes being endlessly repeated. I shall cite a single example from 30 years ago, hard coded filenames. Motif came out with the name of the keyboard configuration file hard coded "/etc/keysym.db" IIRC. A the time it was my job to compile and distribute X11 and Motif binaries on all company research lab systems that did not have vendor support for X11 and Motif. This is a common mistake made frequently before the IBM 360 series appeared and led to "sysin=" and "sysout=" in JCL for the 360 series (That may not be the exactly correct syntax, but this does not merit my going into my library to check). But the "genius" who wrote the Motif code could not be bothered with the past so he repeated the mistake. No one here "hates" Linux, BSD, Windows or any other OS. We don't like various operating systems for a variety of legitimate reasons which vary by task to be accomplished, OS and individual. Please read the original Bell Labs Unix papers before you subject us to more of this. Linux has veered so far from the original principles as to be completely unrecognizable. In any given day I may use Hipster/OI, Solaris 10 u8, Debian 9.3 or Windows. And I might well spin up Plan 9 or some other operating systems by inserting the appropriate disk in the machine. In short, I can crush someone with your attitude in minutes even if they have a PhD. And have done it more than once. At such time as you can write intelligently describing the differences in implementation and philosophy about MVS (and its predecessors) , VM/CMS, VMS, RSX, Genix, Multics, Perkin-Elmer 3200 OS and a few others you will have some credibility with me. But until then you are just some child screaming that they will "hold there breath until they turn blue". I am quite certain I am not the only one *very* tired of it. I know the names of most of the people who have been replying to you and have the utmost respect for all but perhaps a few. Possibly all, as I've not paid close attention to who replied. The list is generally pretty quiet except for an occasional nut job. If you have many years professional experience as a senior member of staff in large system environments you care about what seems minutiae to novices. We care because we either got bit or had to clean up after someone else got bit. Most of the people on this list have been involved in large system environments for longer than you have been alive. It is certainly true that the organization of the filesystem in Illumos et al is a bit of a mess. This is true in every extant OS. IRIX, CLIX, HP-UX, Ultrix and a dozen other *nix systems I've used are long extinct. One of the great problems during the workstation wars was dealing with all the conflicting paths and file names. With xterms open on 6 or more different systems using a common NFS mounted home directory I had a very elaborate system for hiding the variations so I could work efficiently despite the variations. I supported software, both proprietary and GNU packages across all of them. Please reply to /dev/null. Reg <> Reg I could not agree more. I started programming and system administration on an IBM 1130, moved to OS/VS1, then to DEC RSX-11/RT-11, then to Unix/V7, then 2BSD, BSD4.4, then to SunOS-4.1, Windows/Windows-server, then to Solaris, OpenIndiana, Centos-7 and Rocks Clusters. Each had their time and place. I now manage a large computing facility that is both a research environment that allows supports commercial customers with the attendant support for users and software, both propriety and FOSS. I too am tired of the child who thinks they know more than the collective wisdom of this and other communities. to the child "pound salt" -- Illegitimi non carborundum RWP ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] ~6 minutes to OI banner/boot options in text install
On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 06:33:37PM +0200, Toomas Soome wrote: > > oh, well, in that case, the issue is not about OI not working in > UEFI mode (because it does), but the issue is that Xorg can not use > vesa driver when there is no vesa bios (which is perfectly good > reason). Also, having to run OI in BIOS mode because you need to run > Xorg, is also good reason, but you can not tell that OI does not > work with UEFI, because that is not true:) Well, that was my first impression. I agree now that OI itself is not at fault. > Of course the root cause is about missing DRM driver and thats the > reason why you need to use vesa in first place…. Also correct. I believe that Aurélien is working on the DRM driver. I will be happier when that is ported and working. -- -Gary Mills--refurb--Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada- ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] ~6 minutes to OI banner/boot options in text install
Others here, perhaps more ensconced on ‘demand’ side rather than supply… might do well to recognize/acknowledge, even - the depth of expertise/experience here. > On Jan 30, 2021, at 12:36 PM, Gary Mills wrote: > > On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 06:33:37PM +0200, Toomas Soome wrote: >> >> oh, well, in that case, the issue is not about OI not working in >> UEFI mode (because it does), but the issue is that Xorg can not use >> vesa driver when there is no vesa bios (which is perfectly good >> reason). Also, having to run OI in BIOS mode because you need to run >> Xorg, is also good reason, but you can not tell that OI does not >> work with UEFI, because that is not true:) > > Well, that was my first impression. I agree now that OI itself is > not at fault. > >> Of course the root cause is about missing DRM driver and thats the >> reason why you need to use vesa in first place…. > > Also correct. I believe that Aurélien is working on the DRM driver. > I will be happier when that is ported and working. > > > -- > -Gary Mills- -refurb--Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada- > > ___ > openindiana-discuss mailing list > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] ~6 minutes to OI banner/boot options in text install
On Sat, Jan 30, 2021, 08:22 Gary Mills wrote: > On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 08:19:16AM +0200, Toomas Soome via > openindiana-discuss wrote: > > > > > On 30. Jan 2021, at 03:57, Gary Mills wrote: > > > > > > The loader works in UEFI mode, but OI does not. Usually you are > > > offered a choice at boot time. Chose BIOS mode. > > > > What you mean by “OI does not”? > > In my experience with the OI live USB image, it would run in either > mode. Even the installer worked correctly. However, when I tried to > boot the disk where I just installed, it failed in UEFI mode. It > worked in BIOS mode. > Exact same experience here. > > The problem was likely with the VESA video driver, which is run as a > last resort by Xorg. The VESA driver makes BIOS calls that fail when > there is no BIOS. I'm using the Radeon HD 7450 video card that only > works with the VESA driver. Hence OI boot only works in BIOS mode. > /var/log/Xorg.0.log tells the tale. > > > -- > -Gary Mills--refurb--Winnipeg, Manitoba, > Canada- > > ___ > openindiana-discuss mailing list > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss > ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] ~6 minutes to OI banner/boot options in text install
In message <20210130173642.ga17...@imap.fastmail.com>, Gary Mills writes: >Also correct. I believe that Aurelien is working on the DRM driver. >I will be happier when that is ported and working. +1. Is anyone here free to explain why nVidia still provides its binaries for OpenSolaris and how much longer its obligated to provide that support? John groenv...@acm.org ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] ~6 minutes to OI banner/boot options in text install
On 1/30/21 9:54 AM, John D Groenveld wrote: Is anyone here free to explain why nVidia still provides its binaries for OpenSolaris and how much longer its obligated to provide that support? Do they actually claim to support OpenSolaris or OpenIndiana? I thought they just provided binaries for Solaris 10 & 11 that happened to work on systems that maintain a high enough level of binary compatibility with Oracle's releases. -alan- ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] A rant
> On Jan 29, 2021, at 3:08 PM, Judah Richardson > wrote: > On Fri, Jan 29, 2021 at 2:46 PM Jedi Tek’Unum wrote: > >> I thank the universe every day that I no longer have to polish turds that >> day. >> > Observe, adapt, conquer. I’ve been retired from the war efforts for awhile now and that gives me some perspective beyond the ongoing PTSD. There has been no “conquer” beyond solving a particular problem for the day. The bigger picture is an utter disaster with NO plausible way out. There is a rather large economy, increasingly in less and less capable distant corners of the world, where many toil sticking fingers in a dam. At best we are all struggling to stay half way up the slurry river. The long term economic, cultural, and social costs are only getting worse. I have zero expectation that things will change. ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] A rant
> On Jan 29, 2021, at 3:08 PM, Judah Richardson > wrote: > Modern software aims to serve the user as opposed to making the user suffer > through some kind of "sacred" learning experience while developers remain > intransigent to their needs. Shockingly, it turns out that the people who > pay for the stuff (or support for it) tend to drive the bus as far as how > the stuff functions or operates. If a project doesn't behave the way its > customers or users want, another project that does rises, "standards", > philosophies, and sacred cows be damned. Yep, it used to be too restrictive. Contrary to modern belief, there were valuable benefits that have been lost. Now it’s swung far too far the other way. Now we have chaos. Everything needs a balance and we’re nowhere close. ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
[OpenIndiana-discuss] OpenIndiana as a server.
Hello, Can I use OpenIndiana as an Apache or Nginx server or it just for Desktop PC? Thank you. ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
[OpenIndiana-discuss] NVIDIA VGA Driver.
Hello, If I want to install the NVIDIA VGA driver on OpenIndiana, then I should download the driver for Solaris? Thank you. ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] NVIDIA VGA Driver.
In message <306760264.412247.1612032483...@mail.yahoo.com>, Jason Long via open indiana-discuss writes: >If I want to install the NVIDIA VGA driver on OpenIndiana, then I should down >load the driver for Solaris? Yes. You can download the driver for your GPU here: https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/drivers/unix/> John groenv...@acm.org ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] NVIDIA VGA Driver.
On January 30, 2021 6:48:03 PM UTC, Jason Long via openindiana-discuss wrote: >Hello, >If I want to install the NVIDIA VGA driver on OpenIndiana, then I >should download the driver for Solaris? > >Thank you. > >___ >openindiana-discuss mailing list >openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org >https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss Generally yes, if the default one (downoaded and re-)packaged by OI team as 'nvidia' does not work for your card. There was an effort to support multiple 'nvidia-xxx' drivers but it stalled somewhat. Jim -- Typos courtesy of K-9 Mail on my Android ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
[OpenIndiana-discuss] Mailing list etiquette reminder
I don't like posts such as this, but sometimes such things are needed. There is a traditional etiquette of limiting the number of discreet posts one makes. These date from when Usenet was the Internet and a 9600 baud Trailblazer attached to seismos was the sole link between the US and Europe. Most of the people who post to this list know this well, but there are some who seem to need this explained. Briefly: Don't make 3 posts with 3 very basic questions. Make a single post. Take some time to consider how best to present your questions. Stream of consciousness is not welcome. Please do not post 3 times to respond to 3 consecutive posts by a single person. If someone violates the first rule, don't exacerbate the problem. Read all the posts and address all of them in a single reply. Do your own research first and take some care to frame your questions well. There are many reading this list who will not respond because the OP has clearly not made any attempt to investigate on their own and taken no time to consider how to frame the questions. Many times, the mere act of framing your questions carefully will give you the answers without your needing to post at all. Many times I've knocked on a door down the hall, explained my question and then said, "Never mind. I just figured it out." Through much of my career I ran an "orphan home for lost problems" even though it was not in any of my assigned duties. Countless times, after a few questions from me the person said, "I know how to do that!" and left. Don't carry on what is basically a private conversation between two people on the list. Take it off list. It's very simple to do, just alter the address after you hit "Reply" and before you hit "Send". If you don't know how to do this you probably don't belong here. If you're under 30 please realize that many, if not most, of the people on this list have been working with SunOS/Solaris professionally for longer than you have been alive. There are a number of people who have been egregiously violating the above. I am not going to name names because there is no point. It's obvious from the archive. However, these people have added themselves to my "Do not respond" list. I am far from alone in this. No one is obligated to help you. If you want help you must conform to the rules outlined above or risk not getting a response from someone who actually knows what you are seeking in great detail. If I see 3-4 posts by one person in the course of 2-3 minutes, I simply delete them without reading any of them. I am not the only one who does this. So instead of getting an authoritative answer, you will get responses from people who don't actually know what they are talking about. And those who do know aren't reading either your posts or the replies. The net result will be that you are in more trouble than you were before you posted. Each time you add to the clutter you will dig the hole you are in deeper. Opinions are like watches. Most people have one and none of them agree. If you feel you must express some opinion of yours, please have the courtesy to think through what you are saying and express it well. I took my BA in English lit and I will typically take anywhere from 10 minutes to 2 hours to write a single post. The greater the opinion component. the longer I take to write it. Reg ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OpenIndiana as a server.
Thank you. Why you do it if If there is a desire and why not do it regularly? Which kind of Firewall OI using? Anything exist in its Kernel? What is the different between OI and OmniOS? On Saturday, January 30, 2021, 10:45:23 PM GMT+3:30, Tim Mooney via openindiana-discuss wrote: In regard to: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OpenIndiana as a server., Jason Long...: > Hello, > Can I use OpenIndiana as an Apache or Nginx server or it just for Desktop PC? Yes, you absolutely can. The desktop and GUI components of OI get a lot of attention on this mailing list, for various reasons, but if you have reason to want a web server in the Solaris lineage, OI can certainly be used for that. I will say that right now the OI-provided PHP package is a bit behind (I think it's still 7.1.x), so if that's something you care about, bring it up on this mailing list. Either myself or someone else could probably get it bumped to 7.3 or 7.4 if there's enough interest. Tim -- Tim Mooney tim.moo...@ndsu.edu Enterprise Computing & Infrastructure / Division of Information Technology / 701-231-1076 (Voice) North Dakota State University, Fargo, ND 58105-5164 ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OpenIndiana as a server.
Just a small question: are we being attacked by chatbots? There seems to be a spate of users recently posting rapid fire questions and topics combined with relatively few statements and English that leaves a few things to be desired. A lot of the questions also don't make much sense in the context of the user's originally stated intent or claimed knowledge level or could easily be answered by a Google search. They also answer questions with other questions (which chatbots I've encountered over the years frequently do.) Just wondering. On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 11:39 PM Jason Long via openindiana-discuss < openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org> wrote: > Thank you. > Why you do it if If there is a desire and why not do it regularly? > Which kind of Firewall OI using? Anything exist in its Kernel? > What is the different between OI and OmniOS? > > > > > > > On Saturday, January 30, 2021, 10:45:23 PM GMT+3:30, Tim Mooney via > openindiana-discuss wrote: > > > > > > In regard to: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OpenIndiana as a server., Jason > Long...: > > > Hello, > > Can I use OpenIndiana as an Apache or Nginx server or it just for > Desktop PC? > > Yes, you absolutely can. > > The desktop and GUI components of OI get a lot of attention on this > mailing list, for various reasons, but if you have reason to want a > web server in the Solaris lineage, OI can certainly be used for that. > > I will say that right now the OI-provided PHP package is a bit behind > (I think it's still 7.1.x), so if that's something you care about, > bring it up on this mailing list. Either myself or someone else could > probably get it bumped to 7.3 or 7.4 if there's enough interest. > > Tim > -- > Tim Mooneytim.moo...@ndsu.edu > Enterprise Computing & Infrastructure / > Division of Information Technology/701-231-1076 (Voice) > North Dakota State University, Fargo, ND 58105-5164 > > ___ > openindiana-discuss mailing list > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss > > ___ > openindiana-discuss mailing list > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss > ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OpenIndiana as a server.
No, I'm not bot. On Sunday, January 31, 2021, 09:19:12 AM GMT+3:30, Judah Richardson wrote: Just a small question: are we being attacked by chatbots? There seems to be a spate of users recently posting rapid fire questions and topics combined with relatively few statements and English that leaves a few things to be desired. A lot of the questions also don't make much sense in the context of the user's originally stated intent or claimed knowledge level or could easily be answered by a Google search. They also answer questions with other questions (which chatbots I've encountered over the years frequently do.) Just wondering. On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 11:39 PM Jason Long via openindiana-discuss wrote: > Thank you. > Why you do it if If there is a desire and why not do it regularly? > Which kind of Firewall OI using? Anything exist in its Kernel? > What is the different between OI and OmniOS? > > > > > > > On Saturday, January 30, 2021, 10:45:23 PM GMT+3:30, Tim Mooney via > openindiana-discuss wrote: > > > > > > In regard to: [OpenIndiana-discuss] OpenIndiana as a server., Jason Long...: > >> Hello, >> Can I use OpenIndiana as an Apache or Nginx server or it just for Desktop PC? > > Yes, you absolutely can. > > The desktop and GUI components of OI get a lot of attention on this > mailing list, for various reasons, but if you have reason to want a > web server in the Solaris lineage, OI can certainly be used for that. > > I will say that right now the OI-provided PHP package is a bit behind > (I think it's still 7.1.x), so if that's something you care about, > bring it up on this mailing list. Either myself or someone else could > probably get it bumped to 7.3 or 7.4 if there's enough interest. > > Tim > -- > Tim Mooney tim.moo...@ndsu.edu > Enterprise Computing & Infrastructure / > Division of Information Technology / 701-231-1076 (Voice) > North Dakota State University, Fargo, ND 58105-5164 > > ___ > openindiana-discuss mailing list > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss > > > ___ > openindiana-discuss mailing list > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss > ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
