Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Rolling release considered harmful
Le 5/4/21 à 4:52 PM, Yassine Chaouche a écrit : I am beginning to appreciate a little more how containers fix this compatibility issue. The only thing I need to figure out is how to get the most out of containers optimisation-wise, i.e still getting a way to share common libraries between same-generation apps. Otherwise, I see software distribution going full circle +---+ +>>>>>>>>>>>>+Every software uses its own library+>>>>>>>>>>+ snap, docker, virtual ^ +---+ v environements, appImage, ^ v Introducing shared libraries whole VMs. ^ v +--+---+ +--v-+ |This particular software needs lib L | | Let's have common code in shared | |version 2 but your system relies on | | libraries, this should make apps | |lib L version 1. | | smaller in size and easier to | +--^---+ | maintain. | ^ +--+-+ ^ v +<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<+ Can't have multiple versions of same lib -- Yassine. Oops, formatting failed, let's try again. +---+ +>>>>>>>>>>>>+Every software uses its own library+>>>>>>>>>>+ snap, docker, virtual ^ +---+ v environements, appImage, ^ v Introducing shared libraries whole VMs. ^ v +--+---+ +--v-+ |This particular software needs lib L | | Let's have common code in shared | |version 2 but your system relies on | | libraries, this should make apps | |lib L version 1. | | smaller in size and easier to | +--^---+ | maintain. | ^ +--+-+ ^ v +<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<+ Can't have multiple versions of same lib ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Rolling release considered harmful
Le 5/4/21 à 3:37 PM, Toomas Soome via openindiana-discuss a écrit : Well you can *update* packages and remain in same OS version. Or, you can *upgrade* to next OS version, for example from Ubuntu 16 to Ubuntu 17. In that case yes, breaks happen, and most users prefer to simply reinstall instead of upgrading, which they consider cleaner. Well, with upgrade you get new OS version [...] because you have technical changes which are either not compatible with current apps or introduce some major (new) technologies into the system. But when our interfaces remain stable and we do not break the apps and we do not have marketing department… we can just update. But then again, things are never that simple;) I am beginning to appreciate a little more how containers fix this compatibility issue. The only thing I need to figure out is how to get the most out of containers optimisation-wise, i.e still getting a way to share common libraries between same-generation apps. Otherwise, I see software distribution going full circle +---+ ++Every software uses its own library+>>+ snap, docker, virtual ^ +---+ v environements, appImage, ^ v Introducing shared libraries whole VMs. ^ v +--+---+ +--v-+ |This particular software needs lib L | | Let's have common code in shared | |version 2 but your system relies on | | libraries, this should make apps | |lib L version 1. | | smaller in size and easier to | +--^---+ | maintain. | ^ +--+-+ ^ v +<<<+ Can't have multiple versions of same lib -- Yassine. ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Rolling release considered harmful
Le 5/4/21 à 2:34 PM, Toomas Soome via openindiana-discuss a écrit : Upgrades of Ubuntu LTS break more than OI on my server and without any possibility of rollback to a previous boot environment... Upgrades != updates. Hm, what is the difference?:) Rgds, Toomas Well you can *update* packages and remain in same OS version. Or, you can *upgrade* to next OS version, for example from Ubuntu 16 to Ubuntu 17. In that case yes, breaks happen, and most users prefer to simply reinstall instead of upgrading, which they consider cleaner. -- Yassine ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Updates in OI
Le 5/4/21 à 1:55 PM, Judah Richardson a écrit : Missing an update increases your chances of breaking the system on next update. Correct with all OSes. The bigger the gap between versions, the less reliable/robust the update will be. Not in my experience. I can go months without doing a single update on my old desktop, then decide to do one. I never had a problem. But then again we're talking about (small) updates (package upgrades, same OS version), not (whole) upgrades (a change in OS version). -- Yassine. ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Rolling release considered harmful
Le 5/4/21 à 1:54 PM, Aurélien Larcher a écrit : On Tue, May 4, 2021 at 2:40 PM Judah Richardson wrote: On Tue, May 4, 2021, 07:25 Yassine Chaouche wrote: Le 5/4/21 à 5:24 AM, Judah Richardson a écrit : From a practical perspective, I don't think OI has the option you want. It's a rolling release distribution. I So, just to be clear for outsiders like myself. I thought Hipster was the Rolling Release Branch. I assumed OI had another fixed release branche, but apparently there's not ? Hipster is the only release mentioned on the blog in over 2 years and the only release listed on the download page. I had the same question when I 1st downloaded OI, but it was pretty obvious to me from the above that Hipster is the main effort, and so that's what I installed. Don't fight the paradigm, as I keep saying. Upgrades of Ubuntu LTS break more than OI on my server and without any possibility of rollback to a previous boot environment... Upgrades != updates. -- Yassine ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Updates in OI
Le 5/4/21 à 1:43 PM, Stephan Althaus a écrit : Hello! We have "Boot environments" On every "pkg update" you get a new BE that will be used on next reboot. This is just XXKc''',,',dk0KKXN XXK0kc..';::...,''..,oO0KKKXXX XXXK000:..,;;,;;;,;:ccc,. .;ok0KKX XXXK0Oc,;:c;. ...,;:::lc..',:k0KX KK000d;cdc. ..'',;;;cxo:kOO00XX XXXK0Oxdd. ',;:;,,... .',,'..dkOO0O000KX XXK0dccdkdlo'.'cclo:,c;;,,'... ..;kOOO00OKKK XK0xl;.. ;kd::..,;:dx:'oxkkkdl...',c:'.;kOkOO0KK O:...,lOOOo:. ..',.,odxxxoc:;,;,.''. .:xOO0KK . ..,:oxxdo;. ...,'.:oodxdol:,;:odcc:;,''oOOO000KK ..'',,'.:kk,;...;c',odool:coko;:;;;,..l0KK .',:oxxkxc:lkOOdl. .ldxxxddxko:,,;c;,..oO000KK cc;,kOl'.,;lkOOOk.. .,;okkooolcokx,,:cc:;'..lOOO000KKK c:;''';codkkOl..:;,odxkkxdlldOO00Od,::'. ;kOKK ccc:cldkOO:'.,loxkkkkoook00kll:,..ckO000KK llloxO00OOkl,''coxOO000OxdxOK00K0dxdxkOOO0Odx0OO0K xkO0KK00OkkOO00000ccdO0OddO0KK XX00OOkxxc,:,',kKKK00KKXXKx... .;:;:0koOKK XXKOo:;'.. .:',oOKKkodxOOl.. ;0OodO000x0KKK kxoolc:,'..lkO00KKK0ko,.,xKKK000kddk0O0KKK kxkOxol:,,,'...,kOOO00k,. .'..;d;,0KK0OloX O0KKkddllc:;;;:okOkkO00K00x:,;'.;od;,O00K0K00OKXXX KKXXOOOxooolllok000K00Oxl',xdc;:0K0OKKKXX0xOXX 000OdxooddxK0KKOc:OOkd:000ox0KKxkX Is this done by issuing a ZFS snapshot of the whole root partition ? or is it more granular ? If this is done via snapshots, this means writing to an evergrowing file on disk until the snapshot is removed. So the longer you keep a snapshot, the bigger the file gets. -- Yassine ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
[OpenIndiana-discuss] Updates in OI
Dear OI community, I was never fond of Rolling Releases. I tried a couple times, it always ended in an unrecoverable system and me switching back to a classic LTS linux distro (I'm a linux user myself). It generally boils down to these two essential problems : 1- Never miss an update. Missing an update increases your chances of breaking the system on next update. 2- You can't install a package if your system is out of date. This means that if you chose to not update the system, for example because of a known problematic package, you won't be able to install new software until that package is fixed. A workaround would be to pin that package to its current version so that it doesn't get updated, and unpin it once it gets fixed on next update (but see 1 about missing updates) Out of curiosity, does this also apply to OI ? -- Yassine ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Rolling release considered harmful
Le 5/4/21 à 5:24 AM, Judah Richardson a écrit : From a practical perspective, I don't think OI has the option you want. It's a rolling release distribution. I So, just to be clear for outsiders like myself. I thought Hipster was the Rolling Release Branch. I assumed OI had another fixed release branche, but apparently there's not ? -- Yassine ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
[OpenIndiana-discuss] Multiboot on PC
Hello OpenIndiana users, Is it possible to install OpenIndiana alongside other OSes on same PC with a single disk ? I don't know if disk partitions exist in the Unix world or if is sees the disks differently (I heard of slices instead of partitions in some OSes) Feedback appreciated. -- Yassine. ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
